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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Zenimax got it wrong.

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96 posts found
  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3301

3/19/14 8:44:10 AM#81
If the bugs upset people so much, they shouldn't be on a computer, let alone play any games.  There are bugs in your Computer's OS, there are bugs in your e-mail programs, there bugs in your browser you are looking at right now.  There are bugs everywhere.  By some people's thought process, nobody should use a computer at all until all the bugs have been worked out :)
  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

3/19/14 8:53:59 AM#82
Originally posted by Gravarg
If the bugs upset people so much, they shouldn't be on a computer, let alone play any games.  There are bugs in your Computer's OS, there are bugs in your e-mail programs, there bugs in your browser you are looking at right now.  There are bugs everywhere.  By some people's thought process, nobody should use a computer at all until all the bugs have been worked out :)

There are bugs in my front yard. Should I hide in my house and pretend they aren't there, or work to get rid of the ones interrupting the enjoyment of my lawn?

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  Mothanos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1903

3/19/14 9:10:31 AM#83

Not a single sub based mmo that launched in recent years managed to remain sub based.
They are all Free to play or buy to play.
ESO will be no exception.

Its a waiste of money to buy it now, better wait and get it for free within 6+ months ?
Maybe abit longer, but it aint worth a box price and a sub, hell no.

  User Deleted
3/19/14 9:22:23 AM#84
Originally posted by Gilllean

 

[mod edit]

 

1) Dungeons are not amazing, challenging or fun.

2) The community on Tamriel Foundry are all ESO fans, obviously there is going to be very little friction or negativity.  This forum on the other hand is for all types of players, many who will have a different perspective to yourself.

3) Nice quests? The quests were shallow and dull.  If voice acting is all it takes for a quest to be great then TSW and SWTOR are light years better than ESO. Not sure how anyone manages to get immersed in ESO.  I guess people are so desperate for a 'dark realistic' MMO that they are happy to overlook the quality of its components.

4) I agree that the character building is nice. Could do with more skills unlinked to weapons / class though.

  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 176

 
OP  3/19/14 10:40:46 AM#85

 

OP sorry but I'm  getting pissed on people who whine and whine on every single thing )

No need to apologize, it is frustrating, but for many of them it's not because they are "whiners" but because Zenimax has made some curious choices that can shake the confidence of those on the fence.  When a publisher announces that a beta is their "final" one before launch and then invite as many as 5 million people to it, the perception is going to be that it's a preview of things to come.  Now that perception may be wrong, but since it has become industry standard that final betas are really sneak peeks it behooves the publisher to consider that standard when they offer their beta.

If I had to guess, the real issue is that Zenimax ran short on time and the game may not be "ready" for launch but they have to launch it anyway because they have committed to it.  Because they ran short on time, their final beta was lacking the polish it needs and thereby disappointed a lot of people.

I refuse to debate the status of a possible PTS build that may be better because I learned a long time ago not to take every report from everyone who claims to be "in the know" because most of them (and I'm not saying who is or is not) are just making up stuff to sound important.  I bought the game and if they offered subscriptions now I'd sign up for the longest one possible right now without waiting for launch, but I will see on launch day if the release version is any better.  If it is, great!  If it's not, I'll survive until they smooth it out.

Here's to hoping!

  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 176

 
OP  3/19/14 10:44:33 AM#86
Originally posted by Mothanos

Not a single sub based mmo that launched in recent years managed to remain sub based.
They are all Free to play or buy to play.
ESO will be no exception.

Its a waiste of money to buy it now, better wait and get it for free within 6+ months ?
Maybe abit longer, but it aint worth a box price and a sub, hell no.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, but I do understand where you are coming from.

I'm not going to agree or disagree on whether or when ESO will change subscription models because I don't have a crystal ball.. maybe it will happen, maybe it won't... maybe it'll be 6 months, a year, two... again, don't know... nobody does for sure.

What I will disagree with is your contention that it's a waste of money to buy it now.  If I enjoy it for the next 6 months then my money isn't wasted.  I have no expectations (hopes yes, expectations no) that it will be close to perfect, but bottom line is if I have fun then considering the relative cost of entertainment, it's not a waste at all... for me.  If you prefer to wait for a different model then yes it would be a waste for you.

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1787

3/19/14 10:46:18 AM#87
Originally posted by Mothanos

Not a single sub based mmo that launched in recent years managed to remain sub based.
They are all Free to play or buy to play.
ESO will be no exception.

Its a waiste of money to buy it now, better wait and get it for free within 6+ months ?
Maybe abit longer, but it aint worth a box price and a sub, hell no.

Ah, FFXIV.

Granted it's still young but it's a sub based MMO that has not gone F2P.

The truth is that F2P games do make more money per active player than sub based  games do.  The odd part to me about that is why do some many consumers consider that a good thing?  When 90% of your development effort is spent creating new dresses to put in the cash shop or new mounts to put inside lock boxes that have 100:1 or higher odds of winning at $1 a pop for the keys why do we as consumers celebrate these games?  I'm not saying that sub based games that never release new content is good either and frankly most of these "failed" sub based MMO's did so because they lacked long term value but F2P isn't the answer to this industries woos either especially if you like compiling new content and not fluff.

  Khebeln

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/29/04
Posts: 675

Leader and founder of the Excessum Gaming Community

3/19/14 10:54:38 AM#88

I played all factions and i have to say broken quests depend on what faction you played. For example Dagerfall have barely any broken quests and if anything breaks simple re log fixed it, while Aldmeri dominion had tons of broken quests.

Preordered CE edition and will play as DC. So far enjoyed the game a lot.


(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2

  robatzen

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/14
Posts: 4

3/19/14 10:58:57 AM#89
Originally posted by udon

The truth is that F2P games do make more money per active player than sub based  games do. 

Exactly this!

Most of the folks arguing that Zenimax is greedy and just wants to milk the early subscribers to maximize financial income completly ignore that fact!

They could easily make more money from the beginning if they set up a F2P / ingame shop system …

  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 176

 
OP  3/19/14 10:59:26 AM#90
Originally posted by Khebeln

I played all factions and i have to say broken quests depend on what faction you played. For example Dagerfall have barely any broken quests and if anything breaks simple re log fixed it, while Aldmeri dominion had tons of broken quests.

Preordered CE edition and will play as DC. So far enjoyed the game a lot.

Let's hope launch doesn't find a whole bunch of new bugs!

Not too many of us 10 year MMORPG veterans around!

  seafirex

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 338

3/19/14 11:20:19 AM#91
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by Mothanos

Not a single sub based mmo that launched in recent years managed to remain sub based.
They are all Free to play or buy to play.
ESO will be no exception.

Its a waiste of money to buy it now, better wait and get it for free within 6+ months ?
Maybe abit longer, but it aint worth a box price and a sub, hell no.

Ah, FFXIV.

Granted it's still young but it's a sub based MMO that has not gone F2P.

The truth is that F2P games do make more money per active player than sub based  games do.  The odd part to me about that is why do some many consumers consider that a good thing?  When 90% of your development effort is spent creating new dresses to put in the cash shop or new mounts to put inside lock boxes that have 100:1 or higher odds of winning at $1 a pop for the keys why do we as consumers celebrate these games?  I'm not saying that sub based games that never release new content is good either and frankly most of these "failed" sub based MMO's did so because they lacked long term value but F2P isn't the answer to this industries woos either especially if you like compiling new content and not fluff.

This is what i agree on and also what the OP said in his posts regarding what Zenimax did with the last beta.

I just hope it was a mistake and that yes it was a different build then on the PTS. Time will tell. And yes i will wait a few months after release before buying this game, i will monitor there forums to see what players say and watch youtubes from players giving there impression.

 

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 666

3/19/14 11:20:30 AM#92
Originally posted by alicorn
Originally posted by Khebeln

I played all factions and i have to say broken quests depend on what faction you played. For example Dagerfall have barely any broken quests and if anything breaks simple re log fixed it, while Aldmeri dominion had tons of broken quests.

Preordered CE edition and will play as DC. So far enjoyed the game a lot.

Let's hope launch doesn't find a whole bunch of new bugs!

Not too many of us 10 year MMORPG veterans around!

There is actually only 1 bug that I am aware of. It's a problem with overloading the phasing mechanics, that can't keep up with all the respawning of the objectives in quests.  When did people experience the most problems ? It is in the most crowded places where there was the most phases of the same event happening. The only bug is that the mob or the clicky would not respawn.

It's all linked to the same bug, which could be because Zenimax pushed the stress to the extreme to figure exactly what was too much.

If you played ahead of the crowd in the 20s level areas you probably didn't experience any of those "bugs''. I know that I didn't, I completed all the quests there without having to relog.

  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 176

 
OP  3/19/14 11:35:14 AM#93
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by alicorn
Originally posted by Khebeln

I played all factions and i have to say broken quests depend on what faction you played. For example Dagerfall have barely any broken quests and if anything breaks simple re log fixed it, while Aldmeri dominion had tons of broken quests.

Preordered CE edition and will play as DC. So far enjoyed the game a lot.

Let's hope launch doesn't find a whole bunch of new bugs!

Not too many of us 10 year MMORPG veterans around!

There is actually only 1 bug that I am aware of. It's a problem with overloading the phasing mechanics, that can't keep up with all the respawning of the objectives in quests.  When did people experience the most problems ? It is in the most crowded places where there was the most phases of the same event happening. The only bug is that the mob or the clicky would not respawn.

It's all linked to the same bug, which could be because Zenimax pushed the stress to the extreme to figure exactly what was too much.

If you played ahead of the crowd in the 20s level areas you probably didn't experience any of those "bugs''. I know that I didn't, I completed all the quests there without having to relog.

I wonder if this is the reason or something else.  The reason I say that is because it seems like a chicken or the egg argument.  It's easy to say that the spawning issue was because of too many people in the area, but it seemed to me that there were too many people in the area because the stuff didn't spawn.  You could relog to a new instance (1 relog, 2, maybe 10 sometimes) and you'd come to an area that didn't have 20 people standing around waiting for the spawn, but that also tells me the first person that got there didn't get the spawn and over time the number of people waiting grew.

So is the phasing issue really related to too many people or does it just seem that way over time and really is something else?

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1787

3/19/14 11:40:55 AM#94
Originally posted by seafirex
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by Mothanos

Not a single sub based mmo that launched in recent years managed to remain sub based.
They are all Free to play or buy to play.
ESO will be no exception.

Its a waiste of money to buy it now, better wait and get it for free within 6+ months ?
Maybe abit longer, but it aint worth a box price and a sub, hell no.

Ah, FFXIV.

Granted it's still young but it's a sub based MMO that has not gone F2P.

The truth is that F2P games do make more money per active player than sub based  games do.  The odd part to me about that is why do some many consumers consider that a good thing?  When 90% of your development effort is spent creating new dresses to put in the cash shop or new mounts to put inside lock boxes that have 100:1 or higher odds of winning at $1 a pop for the keys why do we as consumers celebrate these games?  I'm not saying that sub based games that never release new content is good either and frankly most of these "failed" sub based MMO's did so because they lacked long term value but F2P isn't the answer to this industries woos either especially if you like compiling new content and not fluff.

This is what i agree on and also what the OP said in his posts regarding what Zenimax did with the last beta.

I just hope it was a mistake and that yes it was a different build then on the PTS. Time will tell. And yes i will wait a few months after release before buying this game, i will monitor there forums to see what players say and watch youtubes from players giving there impression.

There was a time before massive pre-order campaigns, Internet vial marketing and digital downloads where game launch day wasn't the huge deal it is today.  People filtered into games instead of rushing to them as word of mouth, game magazine articles, and just seeing the box in the store made people interested in buying the game.  There is nothing wrong with waiting on a game like this and seeing how it goes.  I don't like the people who proclaim "I'll play it when it goes F2P" because it's really nothing more than a cheap jab at the game but those who chose not to play at launch because they want to see how it goes I think is fair.  At this point I'm still undecided on the longer term viability of this game.  It look interesting enough to purchase and try for a month or three but after that I just don't know and it's really in the hands of Zenimax to keep me as a subscriber.   

  smellyfed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/06
Posts: 39

Currently Playing: SkyrimLooking forward to ESO and Star Citizen

3/19/14 11:43:29 AM#95

I liked the game a lot but the dismounts were ridiculous. Also a bug in PVP when a wall or door gets knocked down and you cannot see the rubble. You just have to jump over and even stand on top of a transparent block of nothing.

I can put up with some of that for a short while post-launch because it's not my first MMO and I get that these games never launch in a perfected state. But within 30 days that stuff better be fixed or the natives will be  really restless.

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 666

3/19/14 11:51:56 AM#96
Originally posted by alicorn
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by alicorn
Originally posted by Khebeln

I played all factions and i have to say broken quests depend on what faction you played. For example Dagerfall have barely any broken quests and if anything breaks simple re log fixed it, while Aldmeri dominion had tons of broken quests.

Preordered CE edition and will play as DC. So far enjoyed the game a lot.

Let's hope launch doesn't find a whole bunch of new bugs!

Not too many of us 10 year MMORPG veterans around!

There is actually only 1 bug that I am aware of. It's a problem with overloading the phasing mechanics, that can't keep up with all the respawning of the objectives in quests.  When did people experience the most problems ? It is in the most crowded places where there was the most phases of the same event happening. The only bug is that the mob or the clicky would not respawn.

It's all linked to the same bug, which could be because Zenimax pushed the stress to the extreme to figure exactly what was too much.

If you played ahead of the crowd in the 20s level areas you probably didn't experience any of those "bugs''. I know that I didn't, I completed all the quests there without having to relog.

I wonder if this is the reason or something else.  The reason I say that is because it seems like a chicken or the egg argument.  It's easy to say that the spawning issue was because of too many people in the area, but it seemed to me that there were too many people in the area because the stuff didn't spawn.  You could relog to a new instance (1 relog, 2, maybe 10 sometimes) and you'd come to an area that didn't have 20 people standing around waiting for the spawn, but that also tells me the first person that got there didn't get the spawn and over time the number of people waiting grew.

So is the phasing issue really related to too many people or does it just seem that way over time and really is something else?

Not necessarily the number of people in that instance at the same time as you, but the number of those phases needed for all the people doing the same thing. It happened in the solo phases too. But what I think is that whatever ressources was needed to populate those quests over the thousands of those phases wasn't keeping up.

 

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