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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » People worried about the bugged quests from last Beta, READ THIS

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228 posts found
  Patchez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/14
Posts: 60

3/18/14 9:54:07 AM#101
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

  I find it strange that people complain about the quality of a game until it goes free to play, as if business model has any connection whatsoever to game quality.  I'm of the mind that if I don't like a game, I won't play it when its free, let alone when there is a cost.

Well said, yet this is the society we live in today. No one wants to support the stuff they actually enjoy, they want it free.

If that were even remotely true, Freemium/cash shop games would not be raking in dollars hand over fist.

 

If, as you assert, people just want to play everything for free they would certainly not want to spend huge amounts of money to customise their characters with fluff or buy a new mount or gear set or whatever it may be...often on top of a sub.

 

You are confusing people wanting to play everything for free and not support developers with people getting tired of sub standard releases imo. The calls for ESO being B2P or F2P are based on an increasingly popular view that the game is just not worth the high price it currently sells for.

 

If so many people don't feel the quality of the game justifies such a high price, that is a reflection on the devs and the product and not the consumers themsleves imo.

 

 

That's because they aren't spending any money in these cash shop games, their beloved "Whales" are spending that money and subsidizing the free players.

I doubt one F2P MMO  can sustain itself on just few whales. Please think before you type.

Derp, yeah 5 people bring in millions of dollars, I'd say the same to you sir... Of course other people spend money, the majority do not, this is based on actual F'n statistics.

 

sources please. 96% of people know that 84% of statistics are made up and 91% of people know this to be true.

Distopia strikes me as the kind of poster that, if he/she had actual srouces.....

 

He/she would have linked the shit out of them several posts ago :)

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15541

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/18/14 9:55:03 AM#102
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/18/14 9:57:00 AM#103
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there...

I have already read those links in past and none of those articles say that 'no one' is spending money on F2P games except for the whales.

That is what is being discussed here. 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15541

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/18/14 9:58:01 AM#104
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there...

I have already read those links in past and none of those articles say that 'no one' is spending money on F2P games except for the whales.

That is what is being discussed here. 

Uhh, what's being discussed here was my post as that's what started this chain...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Patchez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/14
Posts: 60

3/18/14 9:58:38 AM#105
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/18/14 9:59:30 AM#106
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there...

I have already read those links in past and none of those articles say that 'no one' is spending money on F2P games except for the whales.

That is what is being discussed here. 

Uhh, what's being discussed here was my post as that's what started this chain...

Umm no not really. The guy whom i quoted earlier claimed that 'no one' is spending any money on cash shop except for whales. Which is a ridiculous claim.

No one is denying existence of whales so don't need any satistics for that.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15541

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/18/14 10:01:04 AM#107
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 781

3/18/14 10:01:42 AM#108
Originally posted by Distopia

Read until your heart's content...

https://www.google.com/search?q=F2p+whales&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

take in note i'm going down the google list from first article down.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/11/raph-koster-talks-about-the-evil-of-free-to-play-models/

article 1 - no actual fact or statistic, just a theory how the model can work.

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134825/the_fwords_of_mmos_freetoplay.php?print=1

thesis written on game economy, no facts or statistics, just again a theory on how whales work.

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1

actually has examples of real people and how much they've spent in game, most of those people state their spending are low in comparison to how much others have spent in the game.. i guess meaning there is like a bunch of whales.. 

 

http://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118

this article says that if a study is true "whales" are younger males whom also like to play console games.

 

i see no atual statistics or facts.. i see a lot of theories and write ups on the subject, but no publishers or developers claiming that whales keep their games alive.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 425

3/18/14 10:02:15 AM#109
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by mbrodie
 

 

i guess it's a small % making these games more money then they ever saw when they had a forced sub -_- either way many games have become more profitable since converting to a hybrid model. so regardless of if it's a small or large % it's more money

You just explained it above, when talking about spending 200+. It's that that keeps those games afloat, the "whales"..

You have made a lot of bad assumptive comments in this thread. But this is just one that sticks out.

 

There is a reason why this happens. Because there arent enough people willing to pay for soemthing they dont think is worth it. But the fans will spend and pay regardless. So if this game ends up like so many others and there are 100K peopel willing to pay a sub is that enough for Zenimax? Not hardly. They will make a hybrid model of some sort and try and see what the fanbois will still pay and what they will also buy. Then they will put stuff in a cash shop that they think a lot of people will buy.

 

The idea that 'whales' support games is ludicrous. Maybe in browser based pay to win trash games but not in games with an actual plan. Rift, Lotro, SWOTOR, Fallen Earth, GW2(even though they have never had a sub), maybe even AOC all have plans where I suspect the majority of players spend money in the cash shop. 

 

So when you start comparing ESO and free to play games makes sure youre comparing it to the RIGHT free to play games. The games who started sub and went free to play and had a plan in place to make it viable. Comparing ESO to facebook browser games is a stupid argument. Or any less than 'very good' MMO. Even Dragon Prophets isnt a game you can compare to ESO.

 

Games that come out with a hybrid option with VIABLE reasons to subscribe will be the norm. But companies are still fooling the few people who think subscription based games are possible, and 'better'. They arent. Every game that I listed is MUCH better no (in terms of content anyway) than they were at release when they charged a subscription. SO why is it people think subs are the end all be all of making a good game?

 

If people claim no one played those games and that is why they went free to play that can be a solid argument and probably true. But if these games cant do it why will ESO? because ES was already a game and not a book or movie? Semi valid argument but it also goes the other way and with that history of being a game some expectations are expected and many people have said over and over again the game isnt nearly ES enough. But in name only. So that aspect might hurt it more than it helps it.

 

There wont ever be another subscription based game developed that will stay subscription if it focuses on the western world (N.A. and Europe). Some games that get subsidized by millions of Asians paying cut rate amounts (WoW and FFXIV) might make it. But it didnt keep Aoin sub based very long, which I suspect will be the same fate as FFXIV eventually. WoW cant do it either thats why they have a cash shop now so that subsidizes them.

 

ANY subscription based game is going to have to be released in a form that represents a game 2 or more expansions into its release. Which IS possible but would cost way too much money up front and will never be done. because no one is interested in making a GREAT game anymore. They all want to release a game that is good enough that makes money. Or if they can get away with it an average game with a big name and have a sub and a cash shop.

 

ESO is a referendum on whether or not more games try this approach. If it 'succeeds' it will most definitely become the rule and not the exception, and dont be surprised to see games like Wildstar and any other hyped game start fooling around with a cash shop in addition to the sub they want.

 

Totally off topic but there is only so much people can say about the problems the game has, and they have been debated to death. As have the free to play or buy t play model. But a lot of the arguments dont get to the meat of the situation.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15541

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/18/14 10:03:13 AM#110
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there...

I have already read those links in past and none of those articles say that 'no one' is spending money on F2P games except for the whales.

That is what is being discussed here. 

Uhh, what's being discussed here was my post as that's what started this chain...

Umm no not really. The guy whom i quoted earlier claimed that 'no one' is spending any money on cash shop except for whales. Which is a ridiculous claim.

No one is denying existence of whales so don't need any satistics for that.

Do people here not know what an exaggeration is or what? that's what he was doing... It's done in most cases to emphasize a point.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/18/14 10:03:24 AM#111
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

That still leaves us with 40% who spend money in cash shop (not counting whales) which goes against the claim that 'no one' except whales is spending money on F2P games.

 

Originally posted by Distopia
 

Do people here not know what an exaggeration is or what that's what he was doing... It's done in most cases to emphasize a point.

 

 

You don't need to defend him by making excuses for him. Exaggeration is the wrong way to emphasize a point especially when you are trying to convince others on that point.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 781

3/18/14 10:04:08 AM#112
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

thats a theory on how F2P models could be sustained by whales.. not factual information that whales sustain free to play games... i read like 8 articles dude.. none of them were anything more then opinion and theory.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

3/18/14 10:04:11 AM#113

If people are all worked up about bugs then its obvious they haven't played an Elder Scrolls game before.

 

  Gilllean

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/14
Posts: 188

3/18/14 10:06:31 AM#114
I said this 100 time already... every thing will be fine !!!!!
  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/18/14 10:08:05 AM#115
Originally posted by Gilllean
I said this 100 time already... every thing will be fine !!!!!

Well i guess it settles everything then. Close down the forum guys nothing more to discuss here. 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15541

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/18/14 10:09:36 AM#116
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

thats a theory on how F2P models could be sustained by whales.. not factual information that whales sustain free to play games... i read like 8 articles dude.. none of them were anything more then opinion and theory.

Where do you think Koster gets his numbers from? This is what that guy does now, he basically gives seminars on the ins and outs of gaming.

Another example...

http://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118 WIth an actual study

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 781

3/18/14 10:09:46 AM#117
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by mbrodie
 

 

i guess it's a small % making these games more money then they ever saw when they had a forced sub -_- either way many games have become more profitable since converting to a hybrid model. so regardless of if it's a small or large % it's more money

You just explained it above, when talking about spending 200+. It's that that keeps those games afloat, the "whales"..

You have made a lot of bad assumptive comments in this thread. But this is just one that sticks out.

 

There is a reason why this happens. Because there arent enough people willing to pay for soemthing they dont think is worth it. But the fans will spend and pay regardless. So if this game ends up like so many others and there are 100K peopel willing to pay a sub is that enough for Zenimax? Not hardly. They will make a hybrid model of some sort and try and see what the fanbois will still pay and what they will also buy. Then they will put stuff in a cash shop that they think a lot of people will buy.

 

This guy gets it... thankyou for your time sir, it's much appreciated... i'm glad at least a few people in here are smart enough to realise things for how they are not how they should be in an idealistic world.

 

and i agree with everything you said completely, especially that these games are more content rich and playing better since adopting a hybrid model, then they ever were as sub based games... people complain Trion have slowed down since adopting a Hybrid model.. no way, they are still full steam ahead. 

The fact is, Hybrid models are the way of the future and do make more revenue... if you think that ESO doesnt already have plans if not already putting systems in place for when they are going to make the transition you're crazy, these games release so trashy nowadays because they release full knowing they will go F2P / Hybrid in the first 12 months and usually have people working on the systems so they're ready for when it's time.

  Patchez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/14
Posts: 60

3/18/14 10:10:13 AM#118
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

thats a theory on how F2P models could be sustained by whales.. not factual information that whales sustain free to play games... i read like 8 articles dude.. none of them were anything more then opinion and theory.

At work so trying to keep up lol....

 

Yeah it's an interesting topic and being a pre pub 9 SWG vet I am always interested to read Raph's opinion on something but in this case thats all it was...interesting though.

 

However it does not match my experience at all....in SWTOR there of course a few whales but as a general statement, that game makes truck loads of money from it's CM because so many individual players spend maybe $50 - $100 a month in the CM.

 

I'll take my own experience and BWs sales metrics over a series of opinion pieces any day :)

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 781

3/18/14 10:12:18 AM#119
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

thats a theory on how F2P models could be sustained by whales.. not factual information that whales sustain free to play games... i read like 8 articles dude.. none of them were anything more then opinion and theory.

Where do you think Koster gets his numbers from? This is what that guy does now, he basically gives seminars on the ins and outs of gaming.

Another example...

http://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118 WIth an actual study

that article you just linked

 

So, who are these "whales"? You might be surprised. If a study by EEDAR is actually true, the whales are actually the stereotype of the hardcore gamer: young(er) males who also play console games.

<span js_text-annotate="" text-annotation-button="" icon="" notranslate"="">again, it's a theory

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 781

3/18/14 10:13:30 AM#120
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Patchez
Originally posted by Distopia
Just did yet you have to do the work, it's there... ANd my bad for expecting people to know common knowledge...

That looks to me just like a list of google hits taking me to a series of opinion pieces?

 

You said your claim was based on "fckn statistics"?

From one of those links..

Koster explains that you wind up with a handful of players who sink a huge amount of money into the game, while most users (upwards of 60%) never pay a dime. The users who do pay that much money, referred to as "whales," are essentially being treated as if they're in a retail store, compared to the more traditional model where you pay $60 for a game only to find out you don't like it. Whatever your views on the model, it's an interesting look at the changing face of monetizing games and is well worth a read.

thats a theory on how F2P models could be sustained by whales.. not factual information that whales sustain free to play games... i read like 8 articles dude.. none of them were anything more then opinion and theory.

At work so trying to keep up lol....

 

Yeah it's an interesting topic and being a pre pub 9 SWG vet I am always interested to read Raph's opinion on something but in this case thats all it was...interesting though.

 

However it does not match my experience at all....in SWTOR there of course a few whales but as a general statement, that game makes truck loads of money from it's CM because so many individual players spend maybe $50 - $100 a month in the CM.

 

I'll take my own experience and BWs sales metrics over a series of opinion pieces any day :)

he still doesnt get it's an opinion / theory piece though, thats the problem... in his mind it's fact.

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