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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » PVP done right

16 posts found
  bgonzal

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/07
Posts: 7

 
OP  3/17/14 12:26:32 PM#1

I know this game needs some polish and the servers didn't always behave this weekend, but it is the first time since DAOC that I think PVP has been done right.  Three factions is a huge plus since it keeps one side from completely dominating the other.  As an Alliance player in WoW I hated BGs since we would win 1 out of 10 and the difference between the gains in a loss versus a win were huge.

WoW then came out with Wintergrasp, which I thought would be great when they first started hinting about it.  In the end it was complete crap IMO.  Go to the zone, queue and hope you get in.  If you don't you might be able to experience it a few hours later or tomorrow.  The entire experience was completely underwhelming to me.

I had high hopes for Warhammer, but that was more or less just keep trading.  I also hated the fact that siege weapons needed to be placed in designated areas and often times people would wait for a keep to be taken instead of defending it so it can be retaken when the timer expired.  It had a focus on PVP and it was grand in scale to some degree, but in the end it missed the mark.

I have tried many others over the years as well like AOC, SWG, SWTOR, TSW, AO, EQ, DCU, COH/V, etc... and the pvp just never clicked with me.  They all had their good points, but didn't really have any lasting appeal.

ESO has a similar feel to DAOC BGs, but on a much larger scale.  The war isn't won in 15 minutes like all the BGs in theme parks these days.  It is going to fought out over 90 days and you can see the ebb and flow of the battle.  It at least appeared that way during the weekend betas where one side may have a lead in the morning and in the afternoon the face of the map changed drastically.  

You can follow the zerg to lay siege to keeps, defend against attackers or interrupt the reinforcements as they rush back to the battle.  It offers variety in what you can do and I think it makes it accessible to all.  I for one am really looking forward to rejoining the small team of folks I played with over the weekend when this goes live (team rhayllinski?).  The game has it bugs to work out, but I still found it more enjoyable than anything else I have played in years.

 

  Mongoose

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/03
Posts: 85

3/17/14 12:43:14 PM#2

I wish there 90 days was shrunk to 30. 1 month is good for a nice long battle....90 days is a big dragging.

-Mongoose

  xerri

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/13
Posts: 30

3/17/14 1:28:25 PM#3

Agree with the OP as I also played many of the same games and yes  RvRvR seems spot on in this  I only wish the map was even larger in scale tbh   in all there is so much 1 can do in the zone join the zerg  fight in small bands  cut of  supplies  cut of reinforcements  solo ganking/hunting etc.   and for the length of campaigns I feel its right on as well  90 days actually balances it out over the long haul   gw2s   short campaigns  ruined  that to bad they didn't go for a longer stints

But yes for the glitches from this last beta it hasn't tainted me on the pvp play in this game

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/17/14 1:34:34 PM#4
Originally posted by Mongoose

I wish there 90 days was shrunk to 30. 1 month is good for a nice long battle....90 days is a big dragging.

-Mongoose

In DAoC they never resetted... To bad they missed that fact, because it was what made for serverpride...

 

and i still dont get the guest option, but thats just me i suppose.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  daoc4life

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/05/06
Posts: 16

3/17/14 1:35:50 PM#5

I'm glad you found it enjoyable PvP wise but I'm about tired of people slandering DAOCs pvp into the ground especially revolving around this game. TESO pvp isn't even on DAOC thidranki level let alone end game frontier pvp.  In fact, TESO cannot even hold a candle to DAOC TOA pvp and thats legit saying something(though I do miss killing 30-40 people in my thornweed field combo RIP). I'm glad you were one of the people who thought running around with the zerg in DAOC tower humping the wall with PBAOE and spamming theurgist ice pets casting through walls was amazing...however

The ROAM in TESO is garbage... face it if you say ROAM wasn't where it was at in DAOC you were doing it wrong.  The REACTIONARY abilities are garbage, sluggish and possibly as disconnected as the abilities in LOTRO. The overall healing is garbage especially due to some templar nerfs which i'm not going to get started on because sorcs pushing ignorant ass dmg with CC and burning a resto staff shouldn't be out competing the majority of the templars I watched in motion healing wise.

  This game you get stunned, KD, pinned etc you're dead regardless. TESO is nothing more than an updated Age of Conan without the generic MK ultra combos.

I see almost ZERO counter play. I could auto stick/face someone to death before these devs get a a clue and try to rip off DAOC some more.

I don't see people tossing out area mez.

I don't see people purging.

I don't see people spamming Aoe disease to interupt.

I don't see well thought out play because there is almost ZERO need for it in TESO.

I see about zero counter play in comparison to both games.

Only thing I continually saw was zerg fest pvp and people getting continually dismounted due to walking over grass because their horses went lame.

Yeah TESO has some CC abilities but overall it cannot hold a candle to DAOC pvp. I'm glad everyone is settling for less--you do that. I would rather go back to farming aurulite for no other reason than boredom.

 

Just because they both have three factions, castles, oil and siege means about squat.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7329

3/17/14 1:37:49 PM#6
It's not the form of pvp I wanted, but I sure enjoy it.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

3/17/14 1:43:05 PM#7
The thing that should be fixed is that currently it is possible to join same campaign on different characters that belong to different factions. Daggerfall is getting raped? No problem, just relog on your Ebonheart character and you are good to go. In same campaign.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3880

3/17/14 1:43:49 PM#8
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Mongoose

I wish there 90 days was shrunk to 30. 1 month is good for a nice long battle....90 days is a big dragging.

-Mongoose

In DAoC they never resetted... To bad they missed that fact, because it was what made for serverpride...

 

and i still dont get the guest option, but thats just me i suppose.

The only thing that resets @ 90 days is the scoreboard...nothing else does.

 

You'll have the same people, same keep ownership, etc. It's all explained in their support page.

  General-Zod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 571

Kneel.

3/17/14 1:54:34 PM#9
I wonder if they are going to add some type of Elder Scrolls "Herald" (drools)

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3880

3/17/14 2:16:05 PM#10
Originally posted by General-Zod
I wonder if they are going to add some type of Elder Scrolls "Herald" (drools)

Most of what the Herald provided in DAoC is built right into the game. You can sort leader boards by class, by realm, etc. Sorting by guild was the one option that isn't there...or if it is, I didn't notice.

  bgonzal

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/07
Posts: 7

 
OP  3/17/14 2:26:10 PM#11
Originally posted by daoc4life

I'm glad you found it enjoyable PvP wise but I'm about tired of people slandering DAOCs pvp into the ground especially revolving around this game. TESO pvp isn't even on DAOC thidranki level let alone end game frontier pvp.  In fact, TESO cannot even hold a candle to DAOC TOA pvp and thats legit saying something(though I do miss killing 30-40 people in my thornweed field combo RIP). I'm glad you were one of the people who thought running around with the zerg in DAOC tower humping the wall with PBAOE and spamming theurgist ice pets casting through walls was amazing...however

The ROAM in TESO is garbage... face it if you say ROAM wasn't where it was at in DAOC you were doing it wrong.  The REACTIONARY abilities are garbage, sluggish and possibly as disconnected as the abilities in LOTRO. The overall healing is garbage especially due to some templar nerfs which i'm not going to get started on because sorcs pushing ignorant ass dmg with CC and burning a resto staff shouldn't be out competing the majority of the templars I watched in motion healing wise.

  This game you get stunned, KD, pinned etc you're dead regardless. TESO is nothing more than an updated Age of Conan without the generic MK ultra combos.

I see almost ZERO counter play. I could auto stick/face someone to death before these devs get a a clue and try to rip off DAOC some more.

I don't see people tossing out area mez.

I don't see people purging.

I don't see people spamming Aoe disease to interupt.

I don't see well thought out play because there is almost ZERO need for it in TESO.

I see about zero counter play in comparison to both games.

Only thing I continually saw was zerg fest pvp and people getting continually dismounted due to walking over grass because their horses went lame.

Yeah TESO has some CC abilities but overall it cannot hold a candle to DAOC pvp. I'm glad everyone is settling for less--you do that. I would rather go back to farming aurulite for no other reason than boredom.

 

Just because they both have three factions, castles, oil and siege means about squat.

DAOC PVP was great. I played on an open world PVP server where is was basically a free for all so I didn't spend much time in the RVR until I switched servers later on.  I am not saying the pvp is the best ever in ESO, but it is the best I have played in a long time.  DOAC wasn't perfect and had it's flaws as well.  A few years ago I started fresh and leveled a new character to 50.  Leveling was extremely fast and I loved the BGs on the way up.  Once you got to 50 it was nothing but a zerg fest and I could barely damage anyone even though I had decent crafted gear.   It then became all about RR and abilities you gained through it so it made it difficult to compete.  

You can say I am settling and you can  keep on complaining about how DAOC is the best ever, this sucks compared to it, blah blah blah...  I however will choose to enjoy the first game to step in the right direction in years. 

  calibek

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/08/05
Posts: 157

3/17/14 2:38:31 PM#12
I played some AvA last night and I had a good time. Best part is it isn't just straight PvP. I found a corpse with a note next to it with some writing about a hidden treasure. When I went to examine the corpse it came to life and attacked me. Then I rode off to a keep defense and it was a blast. I managed to sneak around the other side and burn some siege engines . I was eventually caught and killed but it was still a great time going off alone to take out some of the siege engines in the back.

  Kinado

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 199

3/17/14 2:45:12 PM#13

It's hard to see how pvp is for just playing 10-20 levels in beta weekends.

I went up to level 13 and found TESO pvp really lame ( not counting bugs or lag ) . I see people running over each other with pratically no counter play, just spam your abilities and boom they're dead. You can block the stuns but you'll die to damage anyway pretty fast. This was on both sides of the fence, either killing people or dying myself. Just felt like it required no skill at all playing the game.

THEN I saw characters that were a bit higher level, 25+.

This 25+ guy was fighting me and another one from my alliance, two level 10ish, and he kept is own pretty good. From that I mean that he didn't die within a few seconds. He healed himself a few times and eventually died almost taking one of us out. The fight probably last 30 seconds if that much. Compared with the 5-10 seconds fights i m used to, it was great.

It was good to see this as it hinted me that high level characters fights might last longer. Or maybe not considering that high level players will also kill even faster.

I think it's worth a shot, leveling up a character to max level with a proper pvp build and give Cyrodiil a chance. See if it turns out having fun combat with counter plays or if its just spamming youre abilities once you hit a stun and killing people in 5 seconds.

If pvp turns out to be lame and/or completely unbalanced with some overpowered build, 2 months later there's always Wildstar coming out for your MMO pvp needs.

I'm hoping to be PVPing in both TESO and Wildstar but having played both, TESO really needs some work done and fast. Scratching the surface of the game and finding so many problems early on is no good. This means months ahead will be focused on fixing crap instead of releasing new content that the game really needs aswell.

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

3/17/14 2:51:51 PM#14
Originally posted by daoc4life

I'm glad you found it enjoyable PvP wise but I'm about tired of people slandering DAOCs pvp into the ground especially revolving around this game. TESO pvp isn't even on DAOC thidranki level let alone end game frontier pvp.  In fact, TESO cannot even hold a candle to DAOC TOA pvp and thats legit saying something(though I do miss killing 30-40 people in my thornweed field combo RIP). I'm glad you were one of the people who thought running around with the zerg in DAOC tower humping the wall with PBAOE and spamming theurgist ice pets casting through walls was amazing...however

The ROAM in TESO is garbage... face it if you say ROAM wasn't where it was at in DAOC you were doing it wrong.  The REACTIONARY abilities are garbage, sluggish and possibly as disconnected as the abilities in LOTRO. The overall healing is garbage especially due to some templar nerfs which i'm not going to get started on because sorcs pushing ignorant ass dmg with CC and burning a resto staff shouldn't be out competing the majority of the templars I watched in motion healing wise.

  This game you get stunned, KD, pinned etc you're dead regardless. TESO is nothing more than an updated Age of Conan without the generic MK ultra combos.

I see almost ZERO counter play. I could auto stick/face someone to death before these devs get a a clue and try to rip off DAOC some more.

I don't see people tossing out area mez.

I don't see people purging.

I don't see people spamming Aoe disease to interupt.

I don't see well thought out play because there is almost ZERO need for it in TESO.

I see about zero counter play in comparison to both games.

Only thing I continually saw was zerg fest pvp and people getting continually dismounted due to walking over grass because their horses went lame.

Yeah TESO has some CC abilities but overall it cannot hold a candle to DAOC pvp. I'm glad everyone is settling for less--you do that. I would rather go back to farming aurulite for no other reason than boredom.

 

Just because they both have three factions, castles, oil and siege means about squat.

Eso pvp is as close as I've been to matching my Daoc experiences, everything from small mans to zerging. I think you would be best served giving the game more of an investment, many of your issues seem to stem from a lack of experience. There was plenty of well thought out play during each of our play sessions, our team sky rocketed in AP's because we thought out how to best counter a zerg or prevent reinforcement. ( etc )  Small man teams are alive and well in ESO, even given the standard bolster ratios we had to contend with this weekend we were still able to outplay larger numbers multiple times. We also met several other small mans and had wonderful fights, some we won and some we lost. Purging is essential in pvp, you apparently didn't see any coordinated groups using it .. but we used it. As far as mez is concerned, we found limited use of it. ( Mez being single target stuns ) We found it was far easier to simply focus down anyone healing/supporting as opposed to stunning them. Multiple roots were used to peel though.

All in all I guess the experience varies by the user, give it some time. It's not Daoc 2 ... but for me it captures that old RvR feel enough to earn my business.

 

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1502

3/17/14 2:59:35 PM#15

I am somewhat agree with kinado. We can't see in the moment how it will turn out exactly. But nevertheless as a lot of you already said, it looks like the most similar thing to the old DAoC experience, and is with that a breath of fresh air.

But it remains to be seen how the class building turns out, how pvp combat(counter, group synergy, small scale pvp aka group fights and below, or 1 group vs. many) will turn out, how they handle class/combat balancing, how the overall keep warfare turns out, how the incentive to defend and conquer keeps will be after a few month. Up to now i don't see the huge effect of conquering keeps or holding keeps, and this was a week point in DAoC, too.(Relics and DF was not that much of a incentive.. better then nothing, but for the most time RP points farming was for most the most important part, and withit tactics to farm the most RP with less effort, like AE Zerg RP leeching and stuff like that)

But i guess it is worth a try, to give it a few month and we will see how it turns out.. after all there is no other worthy pvp mmo anyway at the moment.

  Eol-

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

3/17/14 3:03:53 PM#16

I have enjoyed the PvP in ESO very much, by far the best since DAoC. And while DAoC was better in some respects, it was worse in others, which some people seem to overlook. There is far more action in ESO, the sieges are spectacularly better, its far easier to find the battles both large and small, its far quicker to get there, its far quicker to return if you die, there is more to do whether you are in a small group or a zerg, etc etc. I played DAoC and loved it, but some folks seem to remember the good things but blatantly forget (ignore?) the bad.

DAoC was a more complex game with more complex classes, and while that was fun in some ways, it made play balance far more difficult, and it made it much harder to form an effective group because key skills were so class dependent. For example, a group needed at least one healer, one CC'er, a group speed buff, etc, and without those you were toast in small group battles. This made it far more difficult to form effective groups, especially in Albion where those skills were spread across three classes. Whereas in ESO weapon switching allows role switching if you want, which will make it far easier to form groups.

I agree that the beta was a zerg-fest, but wait until people form guilds and pvp'ers get to know one another, PvP will become far more organized, with better strategies for large battles and tactics for group battles.

edit: forgot to add whereas I went out and had fun pvp'ing in ESO at level 12-18, that would have been impossible in DAoC. Yes there were the battle grounds, but real PvP didn't start until 50, and then when you got there you found out that you were toast unless you got tons of realm points to buy the key PvP abilities. It literally could take 6-9 months of leveling and pvp'ing for an average player to become truly effective in PvP (this was before they eased the leveling grind). Now hardcore players may like that, but there were a lot of good casual players that just quit when they realized that their months of leveling grinding would turn into months of pvp grinding. And that's not sour grapes from me because I played a lot of pvp and was one of the highest ranked clerics on my server, but still, I could see that it was a severe problem for the game because of all the people who were quitting post-50. And that was before ToA came out and really ruined the game for casual players.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC