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General Discussion  » Quality of Life Issues Ruin This Game

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181 posts found
  Redhawk2006

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/10
Posts: 108

 
OP  3/16/14 11:36:32 PM#121
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by loopback1199

Apparently the definition of immersion had an upgrade since I learned the word. I'd think it would be more immersion killing to never run out of bag space. It would be completely ridiculous and unrealistic even considering a high fantasy theme. Even in oldschool D&D portable holes and bags of holding were far from unlimited.

I have yet to hear a coherent reason as to why that is immersion-killing and having to perform a warehouse-management mini-game every 1 to 2 hours isn't.

 

Being constantly encumbered by loot, that sounds like...fun. Makes me wonder why you're not still playing those fun games. Makes me wonder why every developer isn't designing their games around this fun mechanic. 

I can't think of anything more immersion-breaking in this game than going into an instance and having 20 people run by and kill every mob in the place with me running desperately behind them so I can tag the boss before she gets one-shoted by the herd.

Well one shot often kills in reality....anyway

 I think it's the opposite, you have failed to offer a single compelling reason why unlimited bag space wouldn't be "Immersion killing" to anyone else, it's subjective there's nothing really to argue back and forth about, it's a simple matter of stating your preference and moving on. Accept others opinions, you started a thread on this topic, this is the result. It's called sharing opinions.

 

If you don't like my opinion or my defense of it  then move on yourself.

I offered reasons why limited inventory is immersion killing for me and you are welcome to address what I actually said if you like. I can't speak for why anyone else finds unlimited inventory immersion killing and so far, no one has offered a reason why other than to assert it as if it is self-evident fact. I am willing to accept others opinions I just don't see anyone backing them with a real argument.

If you think bosses getting one-shotted is fun I don't know what more to say.

  mogilny89

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/11
Posts: 24

3/16/14 11:38:31 PM#122

You make a lot of good points.

Bag space always reveals the intention of a game.  Like Age of Wushu where your bags actually expire every 3-5 days or whatever.  Why would they make anything so unfun?

My suggestion would be to eliminate about half the items.  No needing different stones for each of ten races, no mindless endless stacks of ingredients.  What is the purpose of looting if you cant carry the items?

The soul gems and the bag space and the horses reveal this game already has a bailout f2p model in its back pocket, and they are probably going to need it.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/16/14 11:39:53 PM#123
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by Distopia
 

Well one shot often kills in reality....anyway

 I think it's the opposite, you have failed to offer a single compelling reason why unlimited bag space wouldn't be "Immersion killing" to anyone else, it's subjective there's nothing really to argue back and forth about, it's a simple matter of stating your preference and moving on. Accept others opinions, you started a thread on this topic, this is the result. It's called sharing opinions.

 

If you don't like my opinion or my defense of it  then move on yourself.

I offered reasons why limited inventory is immersion killing for me and you are welcome to address what I actually said if you like. I can't speak for why anyone else finds unlimited inventory immersion killing and so far, no one has offered a reason why other than to assert it as if it is self-evident fact. I am willing to accept others opinions I just don't see anyone backing them with a real argument.

If you think bosses getting one-shotted is fun I don't know what more to say.

That's where subjective comes in, and was my entire point, there's no real argument here it's all subjective, their reasons are their own, as are their reasons for disagreeing with your reasons, it goes round and round and round, there's no truth to come in and stop it....

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Aulliwyn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/04
Posts: 912

It is pronounced "All-ee-Win!"

3/16/14 11:42:50 PM#124
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by loopback1199

Apparently the definition of immersion had an upgrade since I learned the word. I'd think it would be more immersion killing to never run out of bag space. It would be completely ridiculous and unrealistic even considering a high fantasy theme. Even in oldschool D&D portable holes and bags of holding were far from unlimited.

I have yet to hear a coherent reason as to why that is immersion-killing and having to perform a warehouse-management mini-game every 1 to 2 hours isn't.

 

Being constantly encumbered by loot, that sounds like...fun. Makes me wonder why you're not still playing those fun games. Makes me wonder why every developer isn't designing their games around this fun mechanic. 

I can't think of anything more immersion-breaking in this game than going into an instance and having 20 people run by and kill every mob in the place with me running desperately behind them so I can tag the boss before she gets one-shoted by the herd.

Well one shot often kills in reality....anyway

 I think it's the opposite, you have failed to offer a single compelling reason why unlimited bag space wouldn't be "Immersion killing" to anyone else, it's subjective there's nothing really to argue back and forth about, it's a simple matter of stating your preference and moving on. Accept others opinions, you started a thread on this topic, this is the result. It's called sharing opinions.

 

If you don't like my opinion or my defense of it  then move on yourself.

I offered reasons why limited inventory is immersion killing for me and you are welcome to address what I actually said if you like. I can't speak for why anyone else finds unlimited inventory immersion killing and so far, no one has offered a reason why other than to assert it as if it is self-evident fact. I am willing to accept others opinions I just don't see anyone backing them with a real argument.

If you think bosses getting one-shotted is fun I don't know what more to say.

I have..others have. An over abundance of goods flooding the market (because everyone can loot everything without ever stopping) can cause the economy to become over saturated. Limiting the flow of goods can slow/prevent inflation. 

 

I do not agree with your "Yes and No" assessment of Guild Wars 2. I give it a resounding "no" if only by the example you gave. 

 

Edit: But as Distopia has stated...truly it is subjective no matter how we look at it.


  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/16/14 11:45:27 PM#125
Originally posted by Aulliwyn
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by loopback1199

Apparently the definition of immersion had an upgrade since I learned the word. I'd think it would be more immersion killing to never run out of bag space. It would be completely ridiculous and unrealistic even considering a high fantasy theme. Even in oldschool D&D portable holes and bags of holding were far from unlimited.

I have yet to hear a coherent reason as to why that is immersion-killing and having to perform a warehouse-management mini-game every 1 to 2 hours isn't.

 

Being constantly encumbered by loot, that sounds like...fun. Makes me wonder why you're not still playing those fun games. Makes me wonder why every developer isn't designing their games around this fun mechanic. 

I can't think of anything more immersion-breaking in this game than going into an instance and having 20 people run by and kill every mob in the place with me running desperately behind them so I can tag the boss before she gets one-shoted by the herd.

Well one shot often kills in reality....anyway

 I think it's the opposite, you have failed to offer a single compelling reason why unlimited bag space wouldn't be "Immersion killing" to anyone else, it's subjective there's nothing really to argue back and forth about, it's a simple matter of stating your preference and moving on. Accept others opinions, you started a thread on this topic, this is the result. It's called sharing opinions.

 

If you don't like my opinion or my defense of it  then move on yourself.

I offered reasons why limited inventory is immersion killing for me and you are welcome to address what I actually said if you like. I can't speak for why anyone else finds unlimited inventory immersion killing and so far, no one has offered a reason why other than to assert it as if it is self-evident fact. I am willing to accept others opinions I just don't see anyone backing them with a real argument.

If you think bosses getting one-shotted is fun I don't know what more to say.

I have..others have. An over abundance of goods flooding the market (because everyone can loot everything without ever stopping) can cause the economy to become over saturated. Limiting the flow of goods can slow/prevent inflation. 

 

I do not agree with your "Yes and No" assessment of Guild Wars 2. I give it a resounding "no" if only by the example you gave. 

I have a hard time taking anyone serious who gets 125 replies and says "I don't see a real argument made in any of them" .

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Zeblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/06
Posts: 936

3/17/14 12:08:49 AM#126

The only part I agree on is the repair cost. Someone here said "if you die allot" haha not even true. I got to lvl 5. Only died once and please what combat is there getting to level 5? My repair cost was 500g WOW I only had 700 total at that time. So no dying did this.

Could be a bug because I ran out a window to die to see and then it was like 7g. So my guess is SOME of us I PRAY seen a bug.

The game is just to sluggish. Half the time you tend to think you are lagging yet your getting 60+fps but it looks laggy. Questing is way to easy. Don't even try to say its hard or challenging. Unless running back and forth is hard for you or killing that NPC that maybe moves 2 feet is to hard.

Yet I am seeing this as of late. So many want EASY. Killing more then 3 they start to cry. They would never had made it killing 15-25-25-10 and repeat haha. Good old days

Sorry but also the hand holding quests. They are all that way. Just pop open the map and go. One quest you had to get in to this place and to do this you had to talk to so and so. Leave it there and now its fun but no. Under that it says "go talk to so and so in the market place"> open the map DUH theres that white dot you have to go to.

ITs like it was made for 12y olds.

  esardotz92983

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/13
Posts: 13

3/17/14 12:12:16 AM#127
games need money/time sinks . It is good for economy
  Aulliwyn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/04
Posts: 912

It is pronounced "All-ee-Win!"

3/17/14 12:38:58 AM#128
Originally posted by Zeblade

The only part I agree on is the repair cost. Someone here said "if you die allot" haha not even true. I got to lvl 5. Only died once and please what combat is there getting to level 5? My repair cost was 500g WOW I only had 700 total at that time. So no dying did this.

Could be a bug because I ran out a window to die to see and then it was like 7g. So my guess is SOME of us I PRAY seen a bug.

The game is just to sluggish. Half the time you tend to think you are lagging yet your getting 60+fps but it looks laggy. Questing is way to easy. Don't even try to say its hard or challenging. Unless running back and forth is hard for you or killing that NPC that maybe moves 2 feet is to hard.

Yet I am seeing this as of late. So many want EASY. Killing more then 3 they start to cry. They would never had made it killing 15-25-25-10 and repeat haha. Good old days

Sorry but also the hand holding quests. They are all that way. Just pop open the map and go. One quest you had to get in to this place and to do this you had to talk to so and so. Leave it there and now its fun but no. Under that it says "go talk to so and so in the market place"> open the map DUH theres that white dot you have to go to.

ITs like it was made for 12y olds.

That is super strange. I made a fresh Dragon Knight this beta weekend and got to level 11. There was a time I was trying to solo a group quest and died 5 times. It cost me around ~233g to repair my full set of plate (minus pauldrons).  


  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1358

3/17/14 12:50:04 AM#129
Originally posted by Redhawk2006

3. SOUL GEMS: 

Either get rid of this useless and unfun mechanic or at least allow us to rez people without having to use gems.

 

No thanks, GW2 is that way > where you can rezz your zerg at no cost whatsoever and keep on zerging.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  vzerov

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 120

3/17/14 1:32:09 AM#130

So limited bag spaces is immersion breaking, the need to pay to repair items is immersion breaking, death penalty is immersion breaking.

Okay....

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 716

3/17/14 1:42:34 AM#131
Originally posted by Redhawk2006

Irregardless

Mmmmmmmmmk...credibility denied.

  Ataaka

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/01/08
Posts: 158

Anyone can act, just be yourself -aTaaka

3/17/14 1:50:27 AM#132
Originally posted by Ppiper
I agree with OP but Irregardless is not a word.

Irregardless is a word commonly used in place of regardless or irrespective, which has caused controversy since the early twentieth century, though the word appeared in print as early as 1795.[1] Most dictionaries[citation needed] list it as "nonstandard" or "incorrect".

 

sorry... I hate spelling errors.

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1439

3/17/14 1:53:17 AM#133
Originally posted by nttajira
Originally posted by Netspook
Originally posted by kitarad

You guys should have played Everquest in 1999 that was hardship. Even copper coins weighed you down. If you were a monk you could not even loot all the lovely platinum weapons to sell cos they weighed a tonne.


The things you complain about these day my god what trivial nonsense.

The world moves on, in case you haven't noticed. This is just as stupid as saying things like:

People complain about the hospital being 4 hours drive away. In the good old days you had walk for 3 days to find a tailor who knew a little about bandages...

Btw, your precious outdated piece of crap is still there, nothing prevents you from going back.

easy mode and casual mmorpg are sure the UPDATED mmorpg right ? i dont say what he say right

but even the carebears hate how mmorpg are easy now and you guy are even trying to make them even more easy.

they are damn reason why armor break, you need dont want to die ect in a mmorpg...

go play hello kitty...

 

No one wants to die in any game, because everyone wants to be good enough to avoid that, but I cerainly don't mind that death happens, I never said otherwise. But suggesting hat difficulty is determined by armor repairs and limited bag/Inventory space, that's just retarded.

Btw, it's etc ("et cetera"), not ect.

  BlackBerryTea

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/13
Posts: 3

3/17/14 1:54:51 AM#134
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

1...   Bag space is more then enough, combined with the fact that you can craft from your bank inventory...  On top of that you can get to a merchant or bank quite easilly withouth hours of traveling....  And extra slots are available for both inventory and bank, its widely expandable

 

2. Any game needs a money pit, make sure you dont die and there is almost no repair costs,  it really works very much as intended, tough  players that die a lot pay a lot... Which seems to be atleast some kind of deadpennalty players feel.

 

3.  Soul gems are easy to aquire, and add flavour and depth... In those simple fights that give you soulgems, you seriously dont need all those 12 skills you have, and can easilly have a spot for the soulmagic...  This mechanic forces you to plan ahead, in general i stuff 50 soulgems, and try fill up used ones as fast as its possible..  I just love the mechanic

I can agree to that alot more than to the OP.

A game simply needs somethign to eat up money... unless you want ti to get like UO where everyone stores theire millions of gold pieces in bank and nothing is woth anything anymore? I doubt that alot.

I would prefere an extra prosition for the Soulgem though ^^

  Ataaka

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/01/08
Posts: 158

Anyone can act, just be yourself -aTaaka

3/17/14 2:02:11 AM#135

PLAY ESO TODAY!!! 

 

  jesad

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 730

Think of something witty and pretend that I typed it in this spot :)

3/17/14 2:32:01 AM#136
Just another vote to disagree with the OP.  Not going to elaborate.

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2995

3/17/14 3:08:56 AM#137
Originally posted by Redhawk2006
Originally posted by Vannor

So.. yeh

The OP is wrong on just about every point. Inventory space can be increased... so that was a waste of finger energy.

Who said it wasn't upgradable?

Repair costs are a gold sink, all games have them.. and they are a death penalty.

All games do not have gold sinks, nor are they necessary. They are not a death penalty, because you accrue them even if you don't die just by playing the game. If you never die, then this game isn't much of a challenge, is it?

You don't want a death penalty you say? Might as well get rid of death altogether than..

That makes no sense whatsoever. How does that logically follow? Death is a death penalty in itself. GW2 had it right in their pre-release commentaries, though they later reneged on their promise. i can't say it any better:

"Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn’t think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason -- it just wasn’t a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/07/08/guild-wars-2-cutting-back-on-healers-death-penalties.aspx

Fun. In MMO games. The horror!

If you want a death penalty and "immersion" then repair costs are a joke anyway. In the real world when someone stabs you in the chest with a spear, you die in agony spitting blood. That's a death penalty. Get hit once and your character dies and you have to start from scratch. Repair costs are just another noxious unfun grind, let's stop with the absurd notion they are some kind of pillar of meaningful gameplay.

Soul gems? Expensive? Lol.. not only can you fill them passively at later stages of the game, they cost absolutely nothing and the charge on items lasts for hours.

They are very expensive, if you wish to keep your weapons charged and they become obsolete as you level up. They don't last for hours unless you're doing nothing but whacking bunnies. Be real.

I'll be even more clear about what I mean. This is an RPG.. progression is one of the main features. Quality of life comes with progression.. if you keep playing all those problems go away, leaving you with the feeling you have achieved something. This is why we play these games.

You can have progression without tedium and grind. It is a fiction that this genre require either. Grind is not "progression" it is regression, which is why most players hate it. True progression in these games requires developers who can think outside the tired formula they have relied on for years and to which players are thoroughly burned out.

You talk like you assume I haven't played much of this game. I'm betting you've only played til around the level 10 mark.

Because you are trying to state that soul gems are expensive as a matter of fact, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about and haven't played the game properly yet. Everyone should just ignore what you are saying.. your opinions are founded on a lack of information and experience with the game.

The info that you are lacking is that empty soul gems drop all the time and cost next to nothing from vendors. There is a passive skill in the soul line, called soul lock, that gives a chance to fill a soul gem for every enemy you kill... no need to waste a skill slot or do anything yourself. This happens all the time. The soul gems do last for hours.. because higher level equipment can hold a higher amount of charge. Progression.

Damaged gear in ESO reduces the effectiveness of it, something you don't seem to be aware of. When you use things they get worn or break and need upkeep... if you can't understand the immersion of this then you're just.. strange. I don't care if you want it or not, but you should at least understand it and why it's there. The cost is meaningless later in the game. Progression.

Inventory space.. you played until you have 120 slots yet? Doubt it. My point still stands. Progression.

Progression is regression? Dumbest thing I've heard in awhile.

I bet you'd love a game where you just run around with the left mouse button held down and everything happened automatically. Hell, why give us 5 skill slots when they could just let you fire them all off on one slot? Lets take away health because dying is an unnecessary inconvenience. Lets just make the game have auto equipment. so we don't even have to look at the stats ourselves, it wastes time... blah blah blah.

You use a health potion to stay alive. You use a soul gems to fight better and stay alive. There is no difference in the purpose of these mechanics. Limited inventory space gives players a reason to visit social hubs.. otherwise everyone would just be out in the wilds and the hubs would be deserted. Same thing applies to repair costs.

You think all game developers just keep getting it wrong over and over again? You don't think it more likely that 'you' just haven't thought about all the implications of what you are asking for?

  NagilumSadow

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 243

3/17/14 5:03:26 AM#138

Apart from inventory - I'd go back to the ES III: Morrowind model of inventory management  - you're wrong about everything else imo.

They're trying to bring a little "old school" back to this mmo, and everything you complained about is 100% the way it should be.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  quixadhal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 195

3/17/14 5:07:51 AM#139

Most of the old school ideas, like inventory management, repair bills, death penalties, quest givers that send you back and forth like a ping-pong ball... all of this serves one purpopse.  It makes things take longer to accomplish.  Remember, TESO is a subscription game.  The longer they can make it take for you to finish their content, the more months of revenue they get from you.  It really is that simple.

 

  nitefly

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/06
Posts: 339

3/17/14 5:23:43 AM#140

I agree with the OP to a certain extent. I love the amount of items you can pick up in ESO and I like that so many things can be utilised in crafting up until they decided to make crafting largely irrelevant apart from a few enchantments. This might change later on so I'm not too worried. The problem with this system is that the developers haven't realised that adding a lot more items to the game will also necessitate larger bag space. I fear that extra bag space will be added in a cash shop post launch because right now the high amount of items coupled with poor inventory management mechanics just seems like bad game design.

My assumption is that cash options for the following "perks" will be added soon after launch:
- Extra bag space
- Extra bank space
- Separate crafting mat space accessible at all times and from all chars
- Remote repair

The second and third point brought up by the OP I don't have anything to add to. I never liked Death Penalties in MMOs unless they were permanent death and deletion of your character (in PvE) and the soul gem mechanic just seems like a 1980's computer game inspired timesink.

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