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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ESO launching with horse available in cash shop (poll included)

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497 posts found
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

3/13/14 10:54:22 PM#161

Screw that. I will support either revenue model guys, just not two in one game.. Seems like they are in maximize revenue mode already. Just like TSW, SWTOR, Champions Online and STO before them. I just get the feeling they are gearing up for a switch from sub to B2P/F2P. I hate when companies do that and I'll never play a mmo that switches revenue models. Played TSW and SWTOR until they made the switch and haven't been back since. It seems that once they switch revenue models they also switch mindsets from content (retention) to cater (enticement) , stick a fork in me, I'm done.

 

Good luck though, I still hope it does well and they stay focused on providing solid content for their players rather than catering to their players wallets.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15957

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/13/14 10:55:03 PM#162
Personally it's not enough to turn me away from the game, but it's certainly enough to ruin any level of trust going in, which hurts long term appeal. I mentioned in another thread the imperial edition was enough of a slap, considering it's my go to choice of race in TES, I had already come to grips with them being unavailable, then they started selling them. Now they completely change their tune on purchasable items. FOr me it's not the existence of a cash shop, it's the 180; I have enough of a problem placing trust in any company, that's before they start giving reasons not to trust them that I see in plain light.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  VooDoo_Papa

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/10
Posts: 859

3/13/14 10:57:38 PM#163

I'll take a cash shop any day over an RNG lock box system.

cash shops, IMO are expected in MMO's. Final Fantasy XIV is the only one that comes to mind that doesnt have one (and is a sub game). Why does this surprise any of you?

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/13/14 10:58:27 PM#164

Originally posted by umcorian

That's fair - especially the part where you said I'm not too excited in the first place. But let's be reasonable: are people really still falling for hype these days? Do I have to *really* be excited for a game before it's even out before my opinion is valid? I was going to buy the game. That should be enough to get me a seat at the table of this discussion.

The fastest way they could close my open mind is to have a full pay-to-play subscription model that sells mechanical advantages - no matter how slight or how temporary - at a premium. That's a mountain for me - abso-fucking-lutely. 

I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid.  I'm just pointing out that the more excited someone is for the game, the less likely they are to see this as an issue even if they don't like it.  If I had to guess, based on the success seen from adding cash shops in other games, they are probably going to make substantially more from decisions like this than they lose from disgruntled people who don't want RMTs in their sub games.  And in the end, that is their job, to make as much money from the game as possible.  

I think in the long run, players who decide to be extremely rigid when it comes to issues like this are going to eventually reach the point where they have to either bend or leave the genre entirely, because there just don't seem to be enough of them for the developers to care if they do leave.  And it is starting to look like that point is coming sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by Randallt3mp

So where do you draw the line then? Or do you?  What would it take from them for you to say hey "this isn't right, i dont like this."  Don't give me some crazy exaggerated crap either.  Give me a reasonable situation on a spectrum. 

The problem is they aren't going to suddenly start slaughtering kittens on twitch (obv exaggerated).  They will gradually see what they can get away with and before you know it you'll be spending alot more that you originally though you would have and things will have changed alot more than you expected.

Honestly?  There are plenty of things where I would say "I don't like this," but I doubt I would ever say "This isn't right."  To me, unless someone is forcing people to do something against their will, right and wrong don't enter into it, only like and dislike.  If enough people dislike something they might change their minds, but I honestly doubt that the level of outrage over a sub-par horse that is only useful for 10-20 levels is going to be that high.

And no, I won't suddenly be spending a lot more, because I'm not a gambler or an addict.  I look at each transaction individually, and decide whether the cost is worth the benefit.  And I know you asked for specifics, but I'm going to give you a generality instead; if it ever reached the point where I had to spend more money than the subscription just to enjoy the game, and the amount more money they were asking was worth more to me than the fun I would get, I would dislike that, and I would stop playing.  But I wouldn't rage on a forum, or accuse anyone of lying, or try to frame my personal distaste as a matter of High Moral Principle.  I would just go do something else with my time.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

And please, read the post before you reply.  You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."  

You said you didn't care if they added a "full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop."  Something which doesn't appear to actually exist in any major game, so bringing up "Pay-to-Win" at all is just hyperbole.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

3/13/14 10:59:24 PM#165
Most MMO's offer a CE that includes a mount these days, ZoS are no different. However ZoS CE comes with an exclusive race that has exclusive passive and that irks me a little tbh, but I wanted the mount. My plan was to upgrade to imp edition at launch, but I wasn't exactly happy about supporting the race thing. This announcement means I can get a mount without supporting them selling a race as day one DLC, so it actually makes me pretty happy
  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3446

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/13/14 11:00:04 PM#166

Whats more concerning is that the imperial race is locked behind that cash shop too.

You should get that with your sub fee, There is no excuse other than greed why this should not be.

As for the horse, w/e.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17611

3/13/14 11:00:16 PM#167

maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?

I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.

My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).

And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.

 

  umcorian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 376

3/13/14 11:00:24 PM#168
Originally posted by Distopia
Personally it's not enough to turn me away from the game, but it's certainly enough to ruin any level of trust going in, which hurts long term appeal. I mentioned in another thread the imperial edition was enough of a slap, considering it's my go to choice of race in TES, I had already come to grips with them being unavailable, then they started selling them. Now they completely change their tune on purchasable items. FOr me it's not the existence of a cash shop, it's the 180; I have enough of a problem placing trust in any company, that's before they start giving reasons not to trust them that I see in plain light.

It left a sour taste in my mouth, but I let the whole Imperial race thing slide because I reckoned Imperials would be balanced with other races. It was, in theory, cosmetic. A big grey area, but I was willing to overlook it. 

I admit, it was news to me that a 17k gold mount was being handed to people who forked over more money today. I thought it was something they just added to the cash-shop, when in reality, they already let players pay-to-win with the Imperial Edition... even if if only until players who paid less $$ earned 17k gold or whatever. 

That's just not gonna fly for a lot of people. 

  Vaen09

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/14
Posts: 6

3/13/14 11:00:56 PM#169

Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out.  Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.

 

Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.

 

That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.

 

and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P

  Zadawn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 676

3/13/14 11:01:39 PM#170
The game's f2p by august this year.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/13/14 11:04:19 PM#171
Originally posted by Sovrath

maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?

I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.

My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).

And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.

It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Ppiper

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 666

3/13/14 11:05:10 PM#172

This guy is $10.99

 

 photo mr_ed_tv_still_a_p_zpsa07ff389.jpg

  umcorian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 376

3/13/14 11:05:30 PM#173
Originally posted by Vaen09

Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out.  Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.

 

Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.

 

That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.

 

and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P

You're arguing semantics. I don't care about semantics. 

Me: "This is not okay because it gives a mechanical advantage."
You: "It is okay because the mechanical advantage you're getting is not always going to be useful because of X, Y and Z."

You've acknowledged that a mechanical advantage is being given in exchange for real money. You're trying to convince me it's not a big deal.

I don't care how big a deal it is - I'm not playing a subscription game that sells mechanical advantages (no matter how small) for a premium. End of story.

  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

3/13/14 11:07:36 PM#174
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Sovrath

maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?

I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.

My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).

And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.

It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.

That's because most people expect great cash shop kind of crap inside of a CE or expansion.   What they don't expect is a Cash Shop even if it has one horse in it, because they were told there was going to be no cash shop. 

 

I think in the end it wont matter, my ass is still playing because the fact of the matter is, a game like this only comes out every 10 years, and I'll take it and take it some more, no matter what they add to this game.  Even if it goes free to play.  Its still worth the hours and money I spend on it compared to all the other games out there.

  Ramanadjinn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1316

3/13/14 11:09:59 PM#175
Originally posted by CazNeerg

 

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

And please, read the post before you reply.  You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."  

You said you didn't care if they added a "full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop."  Something which doesn't appear to actually exist in any major game, so bringing up "Pay-to-Win" at all is just hyperbole.

 

Not really no.  Hyperbole is an exaggeration.  My intent was to convey my message literally exactly as I have written it.  If you read anything other than precisely what was written you are in error.  

It was not my intent to convey any hidden or deeper meaning.

  VooDoo_Papa

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/10
Posts: 859

3/13/14 11:10:57 PM#176
Originally posted by Sovrath

maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?

I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.

My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).

And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.

 

 

its a valid point. 

at the end of the day every dollar you spend on a game goes towards a virtual item to some extent.

  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 159

3/13/14 11:12:02 PM#177

At the risk of being controversial...

I

Don't

Care

Simply out, I am NOT playing against you... whoever you are.  It's a horse.  It doesn't make you stronger, it doesn't make you a better player, it's a convenience item.  I'm getting a horse from my pre-order and most of the time I won't even use it as I'll be gathering resources.  I'll only use it... as a convenience.

As long as all they sell are convenience items, I'm ok with it.  I won't think more of you as a player because you have one and I won't think less of you as a person because you paid cash for one.  As long as stats and gear and skills are earned, I'm perfectly ok with cosmetics and such are available in the cash shop SO LONG AS THEY ARE ALSO EARNABLE IN GAME.  That's the kicker for me, if it can be earned in game by normal playing then I have no issues, but once they cross that line and offer things you can never earn in game then I would feel the subscription model has been violated.

Just my 2 cents.

  umcorian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 376

3/13/14 11:12:25 PM#178
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Sovrath

maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?

I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.

My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).

And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.

It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.

It's not a big mystery: a lot of us who are suddenly pissed off now didn't actually look closely enough at the Imperial Edition. I don't normally go for Deluxe Versions of games and all I really knew was you got the Imperial Race if you bought it. I gave that a pass as a cosmetic benefit - I'm assuming Imperials aren't designed to be the best race in the game, so - as long as it's balanced - it's technically cosmetic. 

Moving the horse to the Cash Shop underlined, bold-faced and underscored a pay-to-win part of that Deluxe Version that I had overlooked. Obviously, others hadn't though... they complained and Zenimax's solution to the Imperial Version having a pay-to-win element was: "Fine, now you can pay a little less to win."

It's very unwelcome news to me. 

  Vaen09

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/14
Posts: 6

3/13/14 11:13:01 PM#179
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by Vaen09

Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out.  Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.

 

Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.

 

That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.

 

and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P

You're arguing semantics. I don't care about semantics. 

Me: "This is not okay because it gives a mechanical advantage."
You: "It is okay because the mechanical advantage you're getting is not always going to be useful because of X, Y and Z."

You've acknowledged that a mechanical advantage is being given in exchange for real money. You're trying to convince me it's not a big deal.

I don't care how big a deal it is - I'm not playing a subscription game that sells mechanical advantages (no matter how small) for a premium. End of story.

You knew the imps were getting horses, and you didn't flip out then? why flip out now? because they're offering another horse outside of an imperial upgrade? You're complaining about the same advantage you said so yourself you were willing to let slide when they're offering that same advantage to everybody for less.

 

You're just looking for something to complain about. End of story.

  umcorian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 376

3/13/14 11:13:38 PM#180
Read my post above. 
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