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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What are 5 things you are tired of in the MMORPG genre? (PS: No vague answers like Themepark/Sandbox/ X Clone)

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98 posts found
  Velocinox

Elite Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 710

3/12/14 6:09:40 PM#61

1. Forced, No Choice Gameplay:

  • I've never seen a solo strong MMO tell the group interested players they CAN'T GROUP. Cultivate a like minded body of friends and group up. Stop telling game designers to FORCE people into being your friend. Group up if you want to, or solo if you want to. Don't tell the other people how to play. What? Grouping isn't 'efficient'? Neither is soloing in a group only MMO. At least you still have that option.
  • Why do people get upset of separated PvP and PvE servers? Go play your game, we'll play ours. Enjoy raiding dungeons against rote AI coding, or Attacking other players that are built for PvP and expecting it not for ganking players built for PvE and don't want to listen to you 'Roleplay' a foul mouthed juvenile from the future.
  • Don't like F2P games? Buy their VIP pass. You get everything they offer and you get bonus points every month to buy extra things, but don't tell others that don't want to make the subscription commitment they can't play, also. If they want to cherry-pick what they get each month, what skin is it off your nose?
2. Small worlds/Lack of content:
  • Gone are the days where all the way to max level there are 6 places to choose to adventure in the vanilla release. EQ. and to a lesser degree WoW had multiple areas at every level to go and adventure. Got sick of the look of the area? The creatures? The quests? Go to one of the other six areas available at your level for a change of pace.
  • Slow down leveling so that we have time to hit a few of these places and don't level past them. It's fine if we level fast enough that we're done with that level range after clearing out 3 of the 6 areas for our level, it'll leave us new places for the next character, but don't make us zip by all of this content in only one area of our level.
  • Giant cities with their own content. Cities aren't safe havens, as they say humans are the most dangerous predator. Make the city have plenty of content on their own and sometimes they riot out of their prisons or slums or something goes wrong at the mage guild and pops out on the street to make everyone get involved. Wanted to bank/AH/train? Well don't get comfortable the mage's summoned something they couldn't control and it's rampaging through the market district.
3. PvE games with PvP endgame:
  • Let me get this straight... my reward for subscribing to a fun PvE game where I want to cooperate with friends in adventures and quests is to go compete in PvE with a bunch of foul mouthed crybabies?
  • Wait a minute... I have to spend a month playing with carebears and killing boring AI monsters just so I can start fighting against other players?
4. Minor input into a character's development as I advance:
  • If my character plays the same at max level as it does when I get out of the newbie zone, what's the point? My clothes look 'awesomer', the numbers popping up over my head and the enemy's head have a couple of zeroes added to the end of them, my choice of one of three 'trees' is more filled out, but other than that I got the systems involved in playing this character 45 levels ago.
  • Let me make my character more then two dimensional with my choice of skills he has available. I know I picked Fighter, but let me invest some points into picking locks and disarming traps to get into the chests. I know I picked Thief, but let me pick up a spell or two. So I made a mage, why can't I be good at a bow?
  • Balance pet choices with all classes. Make them available and effective but the points I put into animal training, or summoning are points I can't use to improve my dual wield, or my spell targeting.
5. Meaningless stories:
  • I backed the widget clan, against the foozits clan, why are the foozits still my friend?
  • I just started on a major story arc to kill the BBG, he knows it's me, and he is powerful, wealthy, and influential. I take a break from that story... Why isn't he sending his minions against me the whole time I'm doing something else? I've tipped my hand that I plan on deposing/killing him... did he really honor my request for a 'timeout'?
  • If you have enough content in your game... it's ok to let a player FAIL a quest. Give him another chance somewhere else, but don't make the one-of-a-kind prototype just pop back into my hand after I botched the quest and broke it just because I went back to talk to the quest giver. How many of these one-of-a-kind prototypes does he have, anyway? Have him shrug and tell me, sorry that's all I had it was one-of-a-kind afterall, and you broke it. Do better next time.

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21154

3/12/14 6:11:02 PM#62

1) static spawn mob grind

2) forced socialization

3) long travel

4) harsh dead penalty

5) open world pvp

  Flyte27

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2307

3/12/14 6:25:12 PM#63
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) static spawn mob grind

2) forced socialization

3) long travel

4) harsh dead penalty

5) open world pvp

You've never even experienced these things from the sounds of it and this is a discussion on what you don't want in current MMOs.  None of these things exist in current MMOs so it's pointless in listing them.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1862

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/12/14 6:34:03 PM#64
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) static spawn mob grind

2) forced socialization

3) long travel

4) harsh dead penalty

5) open world pvp

You've never even experienced these things from the sounds of it and this is a discussion on what you don't want in current MMOs.  None of these things exist in current MMOs so it's pointless in listing them.

I was going to ask which games including these features does he play. I may want to check them out.

OWPvP + harsh death penalty + long travel...sounds quite good, for me.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  MsPtibiscuit

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/14
Posts: 164

3/12/14 7:00:03 PM#65

1. Solo

I don't get what is this mode of making an MMORPG to be played solo. A good MMO, for me, should always push players to play in group, and levelling, for example, shouldn't be done in solo. I can understand that people want to play solo, there are super games just for them.

Now even crafting, that was something that should make people help each other, is a solo activity.

2. Scenarized

"You're the super hero this world need and as you see, there are 26735 heroes just like you"

Imo, scenarizing dungeons or levelling has never been a good idea, what's the point of being the unique hero if you know that every players are just like you ? Guild Wars 1 (can't believe I have to put a "1" next to Guild Wars) handled that pretty well saying that the group is actually a special one, like the fellowship of the ring are special heroes.

3. Fast-instantaneous travel

It breaks the immersion, the world, instead of a giant and massive epic land where you have to travel to places, is turned into a giant sandbox where you go there and there to do your activity.

4. PvE and PvP are clearly separated

5. I don't have a 5, I'd say "smoother classes"

  ShazPur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 24

3/12/14 7:06:19 PM#66

1. Aggrobased Trinity combat that turns fights into matters of choreography rather than strategy and tactics.  Add to this important fights where the opponent(s) acts identically each fight and you have a situation where you don't have to make any actual decisions during the fight itself as long as you have learned the dancesteps from a YouTube video.

 

2. Any game where character progression is the biggest focus . Usually games where you really can't affect or change anything other than your own character.

 

3 Levelbased character progression.

 

4 Static worlds and societies that you can't change in any way.

 

5 Small worlds with no room for exploration that can be traveled from one side to the other in less than a real time day. Includes any means of instant travel like summons, gates and other long range teleportation.

  c0exist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 189

3/12/14 7:22:21 PM#67

Instanced areas - some instances are ok and needed but games are relying way too much on these areas.  Needs to be more open world.

Queue systems - Dungeon finders and any other kind of grouping system need to go.  They just bring out the worst in people and are anti-community builders.

Fast leveling - Levels need to take time to achieve, max level should not be attainable to a minimum of month 6 of playing.  Endgame should not be the focus.

Less Solo content - solo content should be for farming, and improving your character skills in crafting and gathering.  All other content should be group oriented to complete.

Bring back the economy - Gold should be worked hard for, games nowadays hand out gold and exp for everything.  Theres no need to farm because currency is irrelevant.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21154

3/12/14 7:29:33 PM#68
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) static spawn mob grind

2) forced socialization

3) long travel

4) harsh dead penalty

5) open world pvp

You've never even experienced these things from the sounds of it and this is a discussion on what you don't want in current MMOs.  None of these things exist in current MMOs so it's pointless in listing them.

I was going to ask which games including these features does he play. I may want to check them out.

OWPvP + harsh death penalty + long travel...sounds quite good, for me.

EQ & UO .. still running. I have been sick of these things in that games for more than a decade now.

  Gestankfaust

Elite Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 1294

Finger deep within the borderline....

3/12/14 7:38:57 PM#69

1.  The community/player base

2.  Pushing PvP on Devs

3.  The community/player base

4.  The term Sandbox and forcing dev's to try and focus on it

5.  The community/player base


"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1150

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

3/12/14 7:40:03 PM#70

1.  Players are NOT XP rewarded for maximizing their group size.  Imagine how that one little change would affect socialization in the genre.

 

2 Players end up more often soloing, or only grouping to overcome a particular challenge because the game is based on questlines.  I've been in a few titles where a few quests existed for specific things, but the main hub of xp came from filling a group and taking out packs of mobs.  Again, socialization vs solo play.

 

3.  I hate that most mmorpgs have repeats of classes and oftentimes races - yet they still fabricate some mythical story that is called lore.  Seeing that my warrior is the same as your warrior, my ranger is the same as your ranger, my race is the same as your race, and so on, makes a game mediocre at best and lacking in imagination.

 

4.  I hate that it is assumed that people do NOT put up walls to protect what they own, or the guards, if they even exist for more than information/quest purposes, are lifeless.  Ever play Evequest and such?  Pvp server or not, you can just walk into most towns without passing active guards or defenses?  This is nonsense and lazy on the part of the developers.  And don't get me started on a player or mob running to kill me past lifeless guards.

 

5.  Anything that causes stratification between players.  If my class isn't considered valuable for xyz parts of the game, then why the fekk does it exist in such a manner?  If I need a particular gear score to enter your group or be welcomed to a team...this is a fault of the developer where skill and the fun of socialization has been processed into something lifeless and mechanical.

  Megilindir

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 92

3/12/14 7:44:35 PM#71

1- Anything that WoW done before

C'mon this is obvious.

 

2- Junk Lore, no real content

Giving more bullshit creativity while hiding in shadows about real fixes& consumable content.

 

3- Lack of gameplay depth

Everybody is a reflection of somebody else.You are a hero or a savior as much as the next guy.

 

4- Lack of dev connection

Announcing bullshit events, bullcrap twitches while sushing about development process.

 

5- Huge prices & No prices

It's shit on two sides of the same stick.When they name a price, they name it in the name of god, when they don't it's in the name of the devil.

beLIEve

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1862

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/13/14 3:11:55 AM#72
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) static spawn mob grind

2) forced socialization

3) long travel

4) harsh dead penalty

5) open world pvp

You've never even experienced these things from the sounds of it and this is a discussion on what you don't want in current MMOs.  None of these things exist in current MMOs so it's pointless in listing them.

I was going to ask which games including these features does he play. I may want to check them out.

OWPvP + harsh death penalty + long travel...sounds quite good, for me.

EQ & UO .. still running. I have been sick of these things in that games for more than a decade now.

But now you can be quite happy as these features pretty much disappeared from MMOs, right?

I dont mean it as an offense. Most people state features / aspects that are prevalent in most MMOs released during last decade. You say you are tired of features that last appeared in games released at least a decade ago. I would be happy if I were you. If it makes any sense.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1232

3/13/14 4:04:25 AM#73

1) Solo based gameplay.

2, 3, 4 & 5) See above.

  Lissyl

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 269

Why yes, I DO like healing and the Trinity!

3/13/14 4:33:38 AM#74

1. PVP

While there are possible good implementations of PVP on the horizon, the vast majority of PVP in games at present is, in a word, trash.  The main reason it is trash is because there is no POINT to it.  It's senseless murder masquerading as something useful in a game that long ago stopped trying to be a world simulation.  This is exacerbated because long ago, #2 was chosen...

2. Ignoring Griefers

Mods not using the banhammer when people began to ruin other's game experiences, whether by griefing or exploiting.  Now its routinely expected that exploiters win in almost every game.  Botters bot, hackers hack, script kiddies automate everything, and real players suffer for it.  Ban them.  Ban them with the intensity of 1000 suns.  And when they post on the forums claiming their innocence, call them out by name with proof of their deeds.

3. Overly-busy raid environments

Raids have become twitch-based enterprises in a lot of games, with stacks upon stacks of things to watch that are beyond the capability of any player without several raid add-ons to guide them.  That is a problem.

4. Voice chat

If your game is so complicated that VC is needed, its too complicated.  I have neither the time nor the inclination to listen to other people's music, the heavy-breathing idiot who isn't smart enough to turn on PTT, the neglecting mother with 16 screaming children in the background, and that one imbecile who feels the need to shriek everything at the top of their lungs.

5. Roleplay (or lack thereof)

I don't care that people who can't stand the idea of roleplaying have taken over portions of gaming in RPG's.  They're welcome to stay, but put actual RP tools into the games again.  That's what they were made for, its what they were made from, and if people can't handle that without trolling, see #2.

  Kaijin2k3

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 549

3/13/14 4:47:17 AM#75

1. Lack of things to do that are not combat-related.

FF14 had things about chocobo breeding, racing, cooperating to build airships, etc. (none of that is in yet, but it would be very nice). More things to do or participate in that is simply for fun (and optional), and have nothing to do with combat. Even crafting falls into this, since too much of crafting is "craft this so you can fight better."

I've recently found myself leveling gathering classes before anything else since it gives me a reason to run around, explore the world and make progress without having to focus on slaughtering every living thing in front of me.

 

2. You are the savior/chosen one!

Many have mentioned this as well, and I could only repeat what they've said. 

 

3. Every NPC tells you how the world and X animal is so dangerous. So you go out and can effortlessly slaughter 100 of them.

This one really bugs me. I suppose this falls into the "soloer world" people have mentioned, but I don't mean to really focus down on that. I just can't take the world seriously when all the lore speaks of how dangerous the monsters are, yet they're complete and utter pushovers. 

If you don't want your monsters to be hard, that's fine. But don't try to paint them out as such with your lore and NPC chatter. Treat them as they are: minor annoyances and nuisances, not big, bad serious threats that are so dangerous to take out.

 

4. The vast majority of the world monsters are the same.

That level 12 Wyvern, that level 33 bandit-mage, that level 48 darksun-titanium-hide-gigantoad; they're all finely tuned so that when you finally encounter them, their attacks all take out the same % of your health, they all have the same strategy (stay still and auto attack you), and they're all ultimately just as easy as one another. Their only difference is they look different while doing it. It's a shallow difference, and it's boring.

 

5. [This is fluff] Worlds that feel completely static

You have your towns, your cities, your camps. And they all speak of their trade routes, supply routes, whatever. But it's never there. There's never any ships simply sailing to and from the port cities. There's never any traveling merchant caravans simply riding between the towns, never even any messengers, there's nothing. Just the same static NPCs staying the same place until the end of time.

No reason to ever return to any of those camps once you're done with the quests in the zone, since they're is ultimately nothing interesting about them.

  Siug

Elite Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1195

3/13/14 4:51:53 AM#76

1. Cash shops.

2. Dailies.

3. Quest hubs with npc-s exclamation marks on top of their heads. Extremely generic quests with complete handholding (marks on minimap etc).

4. Memememe generation that pollutes every MMO these days. Everything gets watered down so everyone should be able to do and get everything.

5. Worlds of the size of a shoe box with minimum incentives to explore it - worlds are static so there's no point going back anyway.

 

  BMBender

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 559

3/13/14 4:56:14 AM#77

hmm 5 huh?

1. The belief that the "casual" market is a monolithic entity with a singular play-style.
and the repeated attempts at "mainstreaming" to capture this mythical beast.
2. The belief that pretty graphics, big stat numbers, or flashy lights will mask im-balanced game-play
3. the belief you have the ability to "dictate" what your customer enjoys vs create systems you think will entice and adjusting to what the market does with it.(leaving your ego at the door)
4. the belief that an IP or a payment model relieves you of making an actual game.(hypothetically, if the IP disappeared or the payment model changed and this affects your player base...you did it wrong)
5. Repeatedly ramming one's corporate head against the exact same wall expecting a different result.

  quixadhal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 197

3/13/14 5:55:23 AM#78

1.  Quests and quest givers that are fully ignorant of what I've been doing.

 

 "Go kill 20 rabbits!"   Fine, I tromp off an slaughter 40 or 50 rabbits, and in the process find "Buggo the Rabbit King", and kill him too since he's there and drops loot.  I get back to the quest giver...  "Thanks!  Here's your copper... now, can you go kill Buggo the Rabbit King?"  "Ummm, I did."  "No, please, you must go kill him!"  "Here's his head, dripping blood on your floor..."  "PLEASE, you must go kill him!"

 

There's no reason the game can't simply track all quest objectives and have the NPC's act accordingly.  "Thanks!  Here's your copper.  Oh, I see you met Buggo too, here's two more copper for taking care of him!"

 

2.  Quest layout that forces you to tromp back and forth across the same 100 feet of ground about 50 times.

 

"Hey, go tell bozo down the hall I need a beer." *tromptromptromp* "Oh, sure, tell him I'll get him one." *tromptromptromp* "Thanks!  He said it's ready, can you go get it for me?" *tromptromtromp* "Hey, here's that beer for Bob." *tromptromptromp* "Awesome, now can you go ask Ted if he has a bottle opener?"

 

WTF?  Why can't these idiots walk and do stupid stuff like this for themselves?  Why are they glued to the floor and unable to shout?

 

3.  Vendor trash.

 

I kill a bunny rabbit, and 12 longswords and a polearm somehow fall out of it's butt as it dies.  Why?  The game even tells me they're junk by making them grey colored... why bother?  Why can't it just give me cash and call it good?  Why make ME pick up this garbage and haul it to some vendor who must have a mountain of it behind his shed?

 

4.  Group mechanics that encourage solo gameplay.

 

It's an MMO right?  You should want to play with other people.... yet most MMO's have solo quest lines that you CANNOT do with anyone else.  Then they have group content that's designed to punish people who haven't watched 20 youtube videos of other people doing it, because apparently making things harder and more tedius is easier than making actual challenging AI.

 

5.  Nerfs to PvE gameplay because of PvP imbalance and whining.

 

People like to PvP.  I get it.  Others like to PvE.  Why can't they keep the mechanics fully isolated so one can be tweaked and adjusted without screwing up the other?  I don't care how... say you have STRENGTH and PVP_STRENGTH, and make gear drops for both sets.  Let you wear both kinds at once, so you don't have to switch... whatever.  Just quit screwing over half your players because the other half whine.

 

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2406

3/13/14 6:02:03 AM#79

1. Focus on raiding as only viable end game.

2. Unvoiced Quests.

3. Pointless PvP

4. Bland worlds

5. Limited character progression/customization

 

That's all I have for now.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3603

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/13/14 6:28:19 AM#80


Originally posted by ikcin
I'm amazed :) Most of you hate players, PvP, end game content - why you play MMO games? Play RPGs, they are solo, with no other players to bother you, with no PvP to stress you, often with good story, smart NPCs and slow leveling. I mean why you play MMO games if you don't like them?

Players, long ago, used to play MMORPGs for similar reasons. We were all geeks and nerds. We had to be to get connected, most of the time :) Sure, there were a few that played for very different reasons, but most of us played because we enjoyed Roleplaying Games. Now, there is a different, massive breed of players playing that despise everything that has to do with roleplaying. These are "the cool" players that seldom enjoy working for what they get ("IT'S TOO HARD AND BORING!") and see games as "just another entertainment" vehicle, like passive movies or static books, instead of living virtual worlds in which to adventure in where actions have consequences.

PvP is an e-peen sport where players beat their chests, then tea-bag your corpse as they corpse camp you. Rarely is there any semblance of sportsmanship or character/skill testing involved.

"End Game" is the end of the game. Your character has reached their pinnacle. There is usually no more progression to be had. Many players today, though, think this is where the game starts, because their characters are all decked out in the best gear with the best skills/abilities for that class. Now, they want USE those skills/abilities and wreak havoc upon the world.

What MMORPGs USED to be about was cooperating with other players to overcome the hardships presented by the game, or other players. Now, they are pretty much built for single players to run around, read their personal story, and get to the end game as quickly as possible without actually starting out at max level. (I'm not talking about forced grouping here.)

I can not play with my friends playing Skyrim or Dragon Age. I mean "with" my friends, not "against" them.

Does that answer your questions?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

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