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General Discussion  » All End Game Craft materials Will NOT be gated by bosses, dungeons, or raids.

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55 posts found
  atziluth

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3/10/14 4:44:07 PM#21
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by laserit

Interesting:

 

It's good and all to make things accessible to everyone. But I'm very curious as to how they are going to do this without trivializing everything.

Yeah I have to agree, the inclusion is nice, yet the idea of progression seems lost in such a system. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. I see someone said that status restrictions apply to items, does that include being able to enhance said item?

Progression is done through veteran ranks, you can't access certain content or equip the best gear until you reach the veteran rank requirement for that content/gear. Crafting alone doesn't give XP so it wont rank up your veteran ranks so even if your the best crafter in the world you wont be able to use the best items unless you have leveled up your veteran rank by participating in veteran content

I'm referring solely to item enhancement progression not usage. I'm asking if a level 1crafter can upgrade said gear or not? I got what you were saying before about the veteran rank, but I was unsure whether that was including applying said upgrades.

Yes, anyone can upgrade to legendary gear. The mitigating resource is the mats, not the ability. To kit out a full character in legendary gear takes 180 upgrade mats (as a level 1 crafter), which are primarily obtained through high level crafting refinement not drops. So as a level 1 crafter expect a long wait to be fully upgraded wasting a ton of materials unless you have a high level crafter feeding you mats (at which point it would be more cost effective in time and resources for them to upgrade your gear too). 

 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  SpottyGekko

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Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3518

3/10/14 4:49:41 PM#22

I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.

 

The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1870

3/10/14 4:55:34 PM#23

Time is the verdict but I think I will find out through forums this time.

 

- Not gating material behind group/ PvP and other play style content is a good thing and should be noted as such.

 

I also appreciate the level of work that needs to be applied to make both crafting and loot based options for gear in a game. I understand if ESO isn't up to it. Few games are.

  DMKano

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Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7578

3/10/14 4:57:38 PM#24


Originally posted by SpottyGekko I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.   The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.
 

This correct - best items will still be drops due to set bonuses and enchantments that crafters can't make.
So while OP is correct about end game craft materials - it doesn't mean anything.

Crafters still can't craft the best gear with those materials, their only purpose will be to upgrade dropped gear.

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/10/14 5:10:55 PM#25
Originally posted by DMKano

 


Originally posted by SpottyGekko I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.   The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.
 

 

This correct - best items will still be drops due to set bonuses and enchantments that crafters can't make.
So while OP is correct about end game craft materials - it doesn't mean anything.

Crafters still can't craft the best gear with those materials, their only purpose will be to upgrade dropped gear.

While this is correct about enchants on drops being unique (which does not mean better), your build will determine  whats best,  the crafted set bonuses on crafted should cover a wider spectrum of builds and will have one set used as best because you have so many different types you can choose to use for your build, and the Traits you will available to your build that will be available will be around 8 different types, along with well over 8+ different legendary enchants you get to choose to use that best fits your build.  

 

I think once you find the set craft station that gives set bonuses that are more for your build, which there is somewhere around 8+ I'm guessing, since they are scattered throughout the world and you will have to find them, that pretty much opens up 8 different sets you can choose from, you can then choose from 8 different traits you wish to have on your crafted gear tailored just to your build, and to top off the customization, you can pick which Crafted Legendary Enchant you wish to put on the gear, which leads to full customization of your gear to what your build is.  

 

So you are looking at a very great amount of variety of customization on crafted legendary gear.   Will this cover everyones build?  No.  Will it be the best for some or alot builds?  Definitely.  Will some drops be unique enough stop someone from using crafted, I'm guessing theres some out there that are more specialized for one type of build or another and will be best for that persons build,  but its going to require a lot of raiding and killing to get that gear that's perfect for you.

 

Keep in mind that drop items you obtain, will not allow you to chose or change the enchant that drops on it, nor can you choose or change the trait on it.  So keeping that in mind, the customization of drops will be limited to whats on that drop,  BUT as you said, those enchants on it will be Unique only to drops.  I forsee a lot of raiding hours for those who are die hard about getting the exact enchant and trait that matches thier unique builds for this reason.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

3/10/14 5:12:12 PM#26
Originally posted by DMKano

 


Originally posted by SpottyGekko I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.   The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.
 

 

This correct - best items will still be drops due to set bonuses and enchantments that crafters can't make.
So while OP is correct about end game craft materials - it doesn't mean anything.

Crafters still can't craft the best gear with those materials, their only purpose will be to upgrade dropped gear.

 

From what the TF guys have said on their streams crafting sets also have some pretty strong set bonuses too and it will depend on what role you intend to play whether or not a crafted set or a dropped set will be best for you

  atziluth

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3/10/14 5:24:25 PM#27
Originally posted by DMKano

 


Originally posted by SpottyGekko I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.   The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.

This correct - best items will still be drops due to set bonuses and enchantments that crafters can't make.
So while OP is correct about end game craft materials - it doesn't mean anything.

Crafters still can't craft the best gear with those materials, their only purpose will be to upgrade dropped gear.

This is subjective not objective. While dropped gear will have unique sets that are not available to crafters, you are assuming they are generically superior. Maybe in the current pass this is the case, I have yet to see proof, but overall sets will be dependent on the stats a particular build wants and is willing to invest in. 

If the unique set bonuses equate to a 5% advantage compared to crafted gear would that warrant 60, 120, 240 hours of PvE farming to get the full set to drop or 50, 100, 200K in gold to buy it? So far there has been no quantitative proof dropped is superior to crafted. We have testers claiming it is, but when asked for specifics, no examples that can be compared has been presented for examples. 

Min/max hardcore players may swear by dropped set bonuses, but will the average player notice that much of a difference. Time will tell, but nothing has been presented so far that confirms it is so. 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1870

3/10/14 5:24:55 PM#28
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by DMKano

 


Originally posted by SpottyGekko I still expect that there are going to be dropped (loot) pieces of gear with "set bonus" stats which will be very desirable for certain playstyles. Crafters will not be able to create the items with those set bonii, but they will still be the ones who will upgrade them to Legendary quality.   The AUA responses do mention that certain sets will have attributes that crafters will not have access to. All we can hope for is that the devs spread the love equally between crafted and dropped sets. I actually like the idea that there will be some useful and unique drops, I just don't want the loot set items to be the BiS in ALL cases.
 

 

This correct - best items will still be drops due to set bonuses and enchantments that crafters can't make.
So while OP is correct about end game craft materials - it doesn't mean anything.

Crafters still can't craft the best gear with those materials, their only purpose will be to upgrade dropped gear.

 

From what the TF guys have said on their streams crafting sets also have some pretty strong set bonuses too and it will depend on what role you intend to play whether or not a crafted set or a dropped set will be best for you

And this is the kind of direction they need to take it.

 

I'm not one of the do as I say don't do as I do types and forced grouping, forced PvP, forced questing?

Add forced crafting to that too. Nobody should be made to craft or be held hostage by a crafter. If you want to raid and loot and be rewarded your gear, you should have the option and you that gear should be just as good as anything I can make. It should do the job it was designed to do. As a crafter I would rather see that kind of standard than to know I and anyone who wants to craft can manipulate the entire game for others. That's not better than forced other things.

  User Deleted
3/10/14 5:29:47 PM#29

The crafting system in ESO was in the top 3 selling features for me.  While I do occasionally sell my wares, I craft mostly for self-sufficiency. I like to know that I can supply myself and my stable of alts with useful gear and not have to rely on world drops or quest items to fill slots as I level.  It is refreshing to hear just how viable crafted goods are, even at the top levels.  So many games in the last 8 years have made it a useless mini-game.  Filler, really.

 

Matt's team at Zenimax seems to have really gotten it with this game on so many levels. 

  Jinxys

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 385

3/10/14 5:37:15 PM#30

Very informative post. Thank you :)

A nice change from all the "Sky is falling" posts lol

Looking forward to this game more than ever now

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/10/14 5:51:27 PM#31
Originally posted by Telondariel

The crafting system in ESO was in the top 3 selling features for me.  While I do occasionally sell my wares, I craft mostly for self-sufficiency. I like to know that I can supply myself and my stable of alts with useful gear and not have to rely on world drops or quest items to fill slots as I level.  It is refreshing to hear just how viable crafted goods are, even at the top levels.  So many games in the last 8 years have made it a useless mini-game.  Filler, really.

 

Matt's team at Zenimax seems to have really gotten it with this game on so many levels. 

I am in full agreement with you.   So many MMO in the past have neglected this part of the game as being real content that should have an end game content to it, separated from Raidings end game

  User Deleted
3/10/14 5:55:52 PM#32
but will end game crafted gear be as good as "gated" content (i.e., raids, etc.)? If the answer is yes, which is indicated by the OP then this means gold = ultimate power in ESO. This is going to make gold sellers very happy.
  User Deleted
 
OP  3/10/14 6:07:25 PM#33
Originally posted by Prhyme
but will end game crafted gear be as good as "gated" content (i.e., raids, etc.)? If the answer is yes, which is indicated by the OP then this means gold = ultimate power in ESO. This is going to make gold sellers very happy.

Yes, since both crafted gear can be Legendary, and the best drop can be upgraded by a crafter to Legendary.  Which are both the same Quality Rating.   As far as raiding goes, it will need to be upgraded to Legendary by a crafter, which requires a lot of upgrade mats that are only available to crafters.   Its hard for some to believe because this has never happened before in a game.   Where crafters can make the same quality raiting as raiding gear in a game in the last 5+ years in MMO games.  

 

Yes, to upgrade someones raid gear, I will be charging a reasonable fee, no tips accepted this time unless they bring me the mats, which can only be obtained by a crafter through "hirelings, extractions, or refinements".   I think because of the amount of work needed to upgrade these items to legenadry, its going to be looked at as a Transaction and not a Tip.   I sure waited a long time to be able to say that!

 

I hear PVP will be able to get drops too, I'll be more then happy to upgrade thiers for cost of legendary upgrade items going price.  I'll farm the mats for it. 

 

When all is said and done, I'm sure raiders will ask ESO what they are thinking over the next few weeks, because ESO has now just showed them they have to share the same Quality Raiting (Legendary) with crafters who do not have to raid to obtain it, but instead be rewarded for their 300-400+ hours they invest into crafting to be able to reap a reasonable reward for time invested.

 

I tend to look at it this way.  Raiders usually have big guilds, and guilds usually have crafters,  guilds can get their own crafters to upgrade for them or they can buy the legendary crafting mats from a crafter to upgrade their gear from the guild bank, giving crafters the much wanted and needed love its been missing for years.

 

I think ESO is making the right decision on this one and as long as it keeps crafters at the top of end game,  they will keep me and so many other crafters as subscribers.

  Lokberg

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Posts: 320

3/10/14 6:36:42 PM#34
People make it sound like only crafters can do this but from what i have seen anyone cna go deconstruct their green blue purple gear and get upgrade components and since it dont take any crafting skill to upgrade only components whats stoping everyone and his dog from upgrading themself
  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1784

3/10/14 7:10:34 PM#35
Originally posted by Prhyme
but will end game crafted gear be as good as "gated" content (i.e., raids, etc.)? If the answer is yes, which is indicated by the OP then this means gold = ultimate power in ESO. This is going to make gold sellers very happy.

"gated" does not mean exclusive to those who finished the zones.  There are people in EQ2 who run around with a full set of raid gear that have never killed a raid boss because they just buy their gear off auction.  Putting the best gear behind group content doesn't solve the gold seller issue at all.

There is so much confusion about this whole thing that I am just going to tune it out until after launch and it can get sorted out with confirmed information.  I have no issue purchasing this game as it stands and if it turns out that end game is a joke no big deal I'll just drop my sub.  My purchase decision isn't based on long term end game design but my continual subscription will be so it's not like I have to make up my mind before launch only before month 2 or 3 sub comes due.

  timidobserver

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/14
Posts: 248

3/10/14 7:17:33 PM#36
Does anyone know if EndGame provides any benefit to crafting? I know that the mats are all available in the open world, but is their a higher quantity of higher tier mats available in EndGame or.. well anything to make EndGame beneficial to crafting beyond upgrading the gear that you get.
  arieste

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3331

3/10/14 7:45:02 PM#37

Wow.  These changes are just sounding dumber and dumber.

 

Two weeks ago ESO was going to have an interdependent system where crafters and adventurers had to work with each other to get the best gear.

 

Now we got crafters maing one set of gear completely on their own, with no reliance on adventurers and then you have top tier adventurers getting the best gear out of drops and only using crafters for upgrades - if that.   

 

It's like someone took the original system and took a big dump on it.   

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  User Deleted
 
OP  3/10/14 8:34:46 PM#38

 


Originally posted by Lokberg People make it sound like only crafters can do this but from what i have seen anyone cna go deconstruct their green blue purple gear and get upgrade components and since it dont take any crafting skill to upgrade only components whats stoping everyone and his dog from upgrading themself
it sounds to me like its going to be crafter only for the sources of upgrade items...

 

As stated in the Q&A with Paul Sage. He states that this will be crafter exclusive. All three types of sources to obtain these items are only found on the crafting panel and crafting passives.
http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/live-community-q-a-with-paul-sage-topic-crafting.937/page-13

 

Raziel asked paul sage:


The players can make tannin, resin, temper materials? Or this item can get for drop, chest, extracting and from hireling only?

 


Paul Sages answer was:

 

You get these from three sources:

1. Hirelings. They are pretty good at sending these to you, especially if you have ranked them up.
2. Extraction. Depending on the weapon or armor will give you these.
3. Refinement. Another way to get the "boosters."

They are restricted to these methods, because we want crafters to be valuable.

ZOS_Paul Sage, Friday at 7:48 PM
 

 

  Abardomas

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/14
Posts: 160

esouniverse.com

3/10/14 9:01:58 PM#39

Seems like more and more changes being made, but that's all part of creating the best possible game they can create. Do I wish they had all this stuff ironed out long before now? Yes but I know the game is going to be one of the best MMOs to date!

  artemisentr4

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1444

3/10/14 10:55:21 PM#40

There is no reason to gate materials for crafting. The "gating" will be the time it takes to research traits, the chance to get upgrade material and enchants you need to buy or make.

 

From the Q&A we saw that to research a trait for the first time, it will take 6 hours per item piece and weapon. The second will be 12 hour, then 24 and so on. There are 8 traits on each item you need to research. So that is a lot of hours and time to find the items and do the research.

 

You can decrease the time up to 20% from skill points and can train up to 3 at a time. So that can decrease the time. But it will take a lot of time to research the traits you want on all the pieces you plan on making.

 

Obviously the upgrade for drops won't take as long, but it may take quite a while to find the upgrade materials. So it will be costly because it will require a lot of time to do and items to break down.

 

It looks to be a good system with time vs reward for both crafter and adventurer. They will need each other and crafting guilds will make life easier for a crafter. Doing it all yourself will be a lot of work.

 

 

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

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