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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Best gear will be looted, not crafted.

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369 posts found
  Abardomas

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/14
Posts: 160

esouniverse.com

3/09/14 9:23:52 PM#261

Crafting is going to be a very important part of eso - and it's a lot of fun! I plan on spending a lot of time crafting after about level 10

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/09/14 9:24:35 PM#262
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
+ Infinity

This is exactly what every MMO developer needs to do - period, end of every story.  Concentrate on making the game good.  Stop thinking about what people might like or what they might not like.  Just make the damn game as good as you can possibly make it, and quit catering to anyone in particular.  Devs are paid to design this stuff for a living.  Just do your jobs.

Reality...

 

 

That's what happens when devs "take charge" and unwilling to listen to their player needs. That's a year worth of Blizzard's "take charge" designing, which resulted in the worst drop of subs in it's history...over 5 million players left. And that screenshot can be plotted against the stock reports for proof, too.

 

And it's history that repeats itself every time publishers/devs get too big for their britches, as SOE learned in 2005, too. And John Romero did years earlier.

 

It should be taught in every game school, lest they forget and repeat history...again.

  timidobserver

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/14
Posts: 247

3/09/14 9:50:42 PM#263
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
snip

Your tone sounds very judgmental for my wanting an MMO with endgame competitive crafting.

Nope, it is only judgmental of how you are making your decision. 

Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I'm glad I saw this thread before I went and pre-ordered.

So TESO is like so many other MMOs out there now huh?

Scratch one more game off my To-Do list.

The game has a lot of betas. You'd probably get a better feel for the game if you joined one rather than some how using this thread to get an overall view of the game.

Unless you are a crafter, there isn't really much in this thread that gives a big picture view of the game. 

It's about the crafting. 

I thought FF14 ARR was supposed to be HUGE on crafting. It had classes dedicated to crafting that were as equally painstaking to level (Harder actually) than the combat classes. Then when they released the 2nd raid, crafting was left out. 

I went into a game believing there was finally an MMO that would keep crafting on par with PVE. It didn't. 

I almost went into TESO with the same hope. I'm just glad I know now.

 

And as you can imagine, a beta weekend isn't going to show me what I'm looking for.

Oh, well yeh, if crafting is a big enough deal to you that you can base your entire decision on whether to play the game on some beta change, then yeh TESO probably isn't for you.

I do think it is better to go and play the game and find out for yourself though. I never really take the word of others on that sort of thing if I have the ability to freely find out for myself. 

You would probably be very surprised at just how big the Crafting community is, or how passionate they can be about their chosen 'vocations' So don't be too surprised if the whole crafting issue vs loot doesn't become a huge as in deal breaking factor in whether people choose to play the game or not, or for how long they stay with the game for that matter. 

Yeh you are right, I am honestly shocked by the attitudes of some of the crafters posting here. As far as I can tell, what the OP posted isn't even proven that be factual or supported by any kind of proof, but some crafters are deciding not to play the game solely based on what they see in this thread. Rather than reading the various interviews that ZM has done, crafters are making GoldTiger the authority on the game and making decisions based on his misinformation. So you are correct, I am indeed surprised to learn that they are that passionate.

With an open beta going on at various intervals, it seems more rational to just go and play the game and find out for yourself if you like it rather than letting GoldenTiger make the decision for you lol. 

  Gestankfaust

Elite Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 1266

Finger deep within the borderline....

3/09/14 9:56:18 PM#264
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
snip

Your tone sounds very judgmental for my wanting an MMO with endgame competitive crafting.

Nope, it is only judgmental of how you are making your decision. 

Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I'm glad I saw this thread before I went and pre-ordered.

So TESO is like so many other MMOs out there now huh?

Scratch one more game off my To-Do list.

The game has a lot of betas. You'd probably get a better feel for the game if you joined one rather than some how using this thread to get an overall view of the game.

Unless you are a crafter, there isn't really much in this thread that gives a big picture view of the game. 

It's about the crafting. 

I thought FF14 ARR was supposed to be HUGE on crafting. It had classes dedicated to crafting that were as equally painstaking to level (Harder actually) than the combat classes. Then when they released the 2nd raid, crafting was left out. 

I went into a game believing there was finally an MMO that would keep crafting on par with PVE. It didn't. 

I almost went into TESO with the same hope. I'm just glad I know now.

 

And as you can imagine, a beta weekend isn't going to show me what I'm looking for.

Oh, well yeh, if crafting is a big enough deal to you that you can base your entire decision on whether to play the game on some beta change, then yeh TESO probably isn't for you.

I do think it is better to go and play the game and find out for yourself though. I never really take the word of others on that sort of thing if I have the ability to freely find out for myself. 

You would probably be very surprised at just how big the Crafting community is, or how passionate they can be about their chosen 'vocations' So don't be too surprised if the whole crafting issue vs loot doesn't become a huge as in deal breaking factor in whether people choose to play the game or not, or for how long they stay with the game for that matter. 

Yeh you are right, I am honestly shocked by the attitudes of some of the crafters posting here. As far as I can tell, what the OP posted isn't even proven that be factual or supported by any kind of proof, but some crafters are deciding not to play the game solely based on what they see in this thread. Rather than reading the various interviews that ZM has done, crafters are making GoldTiger the authority on the game and making decisions based on his misinformation. So you are correct, I am indeed surprised to learn that they are that passionate.

With an open beta going on at various intervals, it seems more rational to just go and play the game and find out for yourself if you like it rather than letting GoldenTiger make the decision for you lol. 

^This


"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/09/14 9:59:23 PM#265
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Prhyme
Making crafted items the means to the best gear would mean that everyone who wanted it would either have to take up crafting or gold farming. Neither are all that fun for most MMORPG players.

Eh, both are fun to a larger percentage of players than raiding is, lol.

Sometimes it's the only good thing a game offers, especially if a player is sick of pewpewpew in 10000000000000001 games with little else to offer.

  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

3/09/14 10:02:40 PM#266

 

RANK 10  LEGENDARY CRAFTED GEAR

 

RANK 10 LEGENARY RAID GEAR  (after its upgraded by a crafter)

 

REALLY NOW, HOW CAN ONE BE BETTER THEN THE OTHER THAT MUCH.....   Why are you guys so insistant to find out which one is better then the other?

  Gestankfaust

Elite Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 1266

Finger deep within the borderline....

3/09/14 10:06:28 PM#267
Not taking into context the crafting in ESO is a mistake. It's not like other MMOs. What seems really wrong is acting like just because you have money or something you can get the best gear. Let me tell ya....you can. Pay the blacksmith at the door.


"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

3/09/14 10:13:12 PM#268

Demanding loot be better than crafted gear?

F'n sellouts.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  artemisentr4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1442

3/09/14 10:34:25 PM#269
Originally posted by Knotwood

 

RANK 10  LEGENDARY CRAFTED GEAR      (+ LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT)

 

RANK 10 LEGENARY RAID GEAR  (after its upgraded by a crafter)   (LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT INCLUDED)

 

REALLY NOW, HOW CAN ONE BE BETTER THEN THE OTHER THAT MUCH.....   Why are you guys so insistant to find out which one is better then the other?

Added legendary enchantment as above.  So crafted legendary needs a legendary enchantment added. Epic raid gear has the enchantment, but needs a crafter to make it legendary. Seems like both are dependent on more than just one player.

 

Those who want to run adventure zones for epic drops only need a crafter plus upgrade mats to make it legendary. Those who want legendary gear without going to the zones can craft it and buy an enchant or level both to legendary (will take a long time). Seems fine to me.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Lokberg

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 320

3/09/14 11:27:27 PM#270
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
snip

Your tone sounds very judgmental for my wanting an MMO with endgame competitive crafting.

Nope, it is only judgmental of how you are making your decision. 

Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by timidobserver
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I'm glad I saw this thread before I went and pre-ordered.

So TESO is like so many other MMOs out there now huh?

Scratch one more game off my To-Do list.

The game has a lot of betas. You'd probably get a better feel for the game if you joined one rather than some how using this thread to get an overall view of the game.

Unless you are a crafter, there isn't really much in this thread that gives a big picture view of the game. 

It's about the crafting. 

I thought FF14 ARR was supposed to be HUGE on crafting. It had classes dedicated to crafting that were as equally painstaking to level (Harder actually) than the combat classes. Then when they released the 2nd raid, crafting was left out. 

I went into a game believing there was finally an MMO that would keep crafting on par with PVE. It didn't. 

I almost went into TESO with the same hope. I'm just glad I know now.

 

And as you can imagine, a beta weekend isn't going to show me what I'm looking for.

Oh, well yeh, if crafting is a big enough deal to you that you can base your entire decision on whether to play the game on some beta change, then yeh TESO probably isn't for you.

I do think it is better to go and play the game and find out for yourself though. I never really take the word of others on that sort of thing if I have the ability to freely find out for myself. 

You would probably be very surprised at just how big the Crafting community is, or how passionate they can be about their chosen 'vocations' So don't be too surprised if the whole crafting issue vs loot doesn't become a huge as in deal breaking factor in whether people choose to play the game or not, or for how long they stay with the game for that matter. 

Yeh you are right, I am honestly shocked by the attitudes of some of the crafters posting here. As far as I can tell, what the OP posted isn't even proven that be factual or supported by any kind of proof, but some crafters are deciding not to play the game solely based on what they see in this thread. Rather than reading the various interviews that ZM has done, crafters are making GoldTiger the authority on the game and making decisions based on his misinformation. So you are correct, I am indeed surprised to learn that they are that passionate.

With an open beta going on at various intervals, it seems more rational to just go and play the game and find out for yourself if you like it rather than letting GoldenTiger make the decision for you lol. 

Only one problem here mate we can get into beta and play a 4 month old build and see stuff how they were befor not how they are currently

  Notimeforbs

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 302

3/10/14 12:20:33 AM#271
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
+ Infinity

This is exactly what every MMO developer needs to do - period, end of every story.  Concentrate on making the game good.  Stop thinking about what people might like or what they might not like.  Just make the damn game as good as you can possibly make it, and quit catering to anyone in particular.  Devs are paid to design this stuff for a living.  Just do your jobs.

Reality...

 

 

That's what happens when devs "take charge" and unwilling to listen to their player needs. That's a year worth of Blizzard's "take charge" designing, which resulted in the worst drop of subs in it's history...over 5 million players left. And that screenshot can be plotted against the stock reports for proof, too.

 

And it's history that repeats itself every time publishers/devs get too big for their britches, as SOE learned in 2005, too. And John Romero did years earlier.

 

It should be taught in every game school, lest they forget and repeat history...again.

Wow... a chart.

This proves absolutely nothing except what you want it to prove.  You see a chart that proves developers don't need to take charge in the development of their own game... I see a chart that shows how 5 million people are tired of playing a 10 year old game.  This chart shows absolutely no proof whatsoever as to why people are leaving WoW.  And all I can tell you is that my conclusion is a lot more reasonable than yours by virtue of the fact that it isn't self-serving.  This is what is wrong with people arbitrarily using statistics to justify their argument - they're too easily manipulated.

The alternatives to the devs taking charge in their own game is the marketing department taking charge and the player base taking charge.

Marketing Department:  Make the game F2P and strip the game of all fair play and originality.

Player Base: Everyone lobbies for their own self-interests, and there is no uniformity to the overall game.  It separates the player base into content camps where no one ventures outside of their little huddle.

Devs: The team of specialists who get paid to do this make unanimous decisions on what is good and what is not good based on prior experience and results of experimentation.

The devs taking charge is the only good option, here.

 

Besides this - we aren't talking about a game that is Live yet.  We're talking about a game still in development.  And it doesn't even matter how close to Live it is.  As you can see, Zenimax has complete control over making major changes to the game, even this late in development.  So the doom and gloom is nothing but fearmongering.

These changes were made largely in part because the add-ons were a problem.  I don't care what anyone says to defend them... they were a problem.  They've been a problem in every MMO released that allows them - because it's inescapable - you have to use them to participate.  And they would have been an even bigger problem in ESO when the game goes Live.  If you don't like it, fine - make your argument.  But I guarantee you nothing you say will trump the reasons they nerfed them in the first place.  And if you can't come to terms with that - then here's the fact of the matter: This game isn't for you.  Deal with it.

As for the other aspects - I'm not really sure there is an issue with crafting in the first place.  I read what the OP wrote, but it sounded like more fearmongering without a reasonable cause that had pretty much nothing to do with anything.  The original craftable bonuses were broken.  There's no way to argue that they weren't.  Being able to craft certain bonuses always came from looted armor in the first place - you had to unlock the actual bonus.  So I still don't know what he's yammering about.  Crafters could always improve on looted armor.  So there still isn't a problem.

The only problem I see in any of this is that crafted armor was rightfully nerfed so you couldn't use broken items, and the add-ons were nerfed so you couldn't use broken mods.  All this uproar because you can't use ridiculous broken mechanics in an online game.  If you don't want to play because of this... then fine.  But don't expect anyone who can stand to reason to feel like you're making any kind of a point worth considering.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/10/14 1:01:23 AM#272
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
  Wow... a chart.

This proves absolutely nothing except what you want it to prove.  You see a chart that proves developers don't need to take charge in the development of their own game... I see a chart that shows how 5 million people are tired of playing a 10 year old game.  This chart shows absolutely no proof whatsoever as to why people are leaving WoW.  And all I can tell you is that my conclusion is a lot more reasonable than yours by virtue of the fact that it isn't self-serving.  This is what is wrong with people arbitrarily using statistics to justify their argument - they're too easily manipulated.

It's more than you can provide, and on top of it, it can be matched to the stock reports.

 

So much for your idea. That's solid evidence.

 

What you see in that chart is Jan, 2011 to Jan, 2012 and the decline of players in game during peak hours. It shows the very next day after Ghostcrawler's "l2p" blog post is exactly when the decline started (I just wished the chart had an hourly time stamp for even more impact).

 

You may not want to believe the evidence, but 5 million people did leave the game, and it started when Blizzard "put their foot down". Which is the exact response to when SOE did the same in 2005 (thus, losing the subscription lead as people left EQ2); and what happen to John Romero when he exclaimed he was going to make you his female dog.

 

Game design is a mutual partnership, not a dictatorship...and history proves it.

  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

3/10/14 1:12:41 AM#273
Originally posted by Stiler

In the latest TESO elite Q&A:

http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/live-community-q-a-with-paul-sage-topic-crafting.937/page-3#post-11877

 

"Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more... armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments. Legendary items do not drop..."

 

The key word there is "from a numerical standpoint."

If you read on you see that certain enchantments will only be found on drops, not something that crafters can actually...craft.

A PTS tester chimed in on this topic and had this to say:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040683257&postcount=1239

Originally posted by

"GoldenTiger View Post

That’s exactly what they did: numerically they’re equal for their very base stat like armor amount or damage, but the unique effects are far more powerful on dropped loot. Your only real uses for crafting are food/potions, and upgrading dropped items (color quality), at endgame now. A legendary (orange) VR10 weapon has the exact same base damage whether it’s a purple that was upgraded from a drop, or crafted (and upgraded). The crafting set bonuses are ridiculously poor (in other words, you wouldn’t ever use most of them, and the only one I can think of that makes sense to use at all is a fill-in 3 piece for 5% extra crit chance) compared to the drop ones, and the drop ones mostly come from random bags you buy in PVP (with an extremely low drop chance) or open-world mobs randomly (Magicka Furnace is the best one in the game basically right now, 10% of your max magicka back when hit by a melee attack, 5 second internal cooldown).

Crafting went from being able to produce (with some effort) gear arguably superior to some of the drop sets thanks to the customizable traits (which you could then use with the worse set bonuses and still come out with a good piece of gear), to being stuff you wouldn’t use at all in your Veteran Ranks (which is where most people will spend the bulk of their playing time because everyone ends up there). For example, pre-nerf they had crafted item traits that could reduce your sprinting costs by 17-22% each at the top end which you could then stack enough to make sprinting just about free, or increase your weapon attack speed (heavy attack times etc, not abilities) by 50-60%, resulting in a large non-resource-intensive DPS potential. Now, the absolute top end weapons get about 8% speed, and the sprint cost reductions are 3-4%. Same thing across the board for all traits.

Whereas before you had a real choice thanks to the strength of traits and the fact that dropped set items only come with one trait type period per set (and some had no trait at all), now you just end up with an item crafted with negligible bonuses and no set bonus/virtually useless set bonus (“Regenerate resources 20% quicker during the daytime” for a 5-piece set is an example, which runs into the softcaps that you’ll generally already be at and is a low bonus already in terms of the actual end effect).

And don’t get me started on the addon massacre, which was primarily information most MMORPG’s put in their base UI such as hitpoint numbers and buff icons as options. Plus as I said they limited the XP you gain by grinding in a duo or higher an extreme amount making it basically unviable, as well as PVP-earned XP, leaving the only reasonably normal way to level being questing along the main quest path (before if you ran off to get side quests and killed stuff along the way, you’d level just as fast if not faster, now you’re best off following the rails of the main questlines in zones because otherwise they’re spaced out far from eachother) and public dungeons etc. giving very little even on the first completion now (before it was a good chunk of XP each time you finished one for the first time on a character). Vet XP as I mentioned numbers for before… yeah."

 

 

 

I really really hope they think about this before the game goes live, it sounded great the way it was before these changes.

Can't you research any enchantment found on weapons and armor and then be able to add that enchantment to armor you craft?

  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

3/10/14 1:27:36 AM#274
Originally posted by Arndush

 

Can't you research any enchantment found on weapons and armor and then be able to add that enchantment to armor you craft?

No your thinking of Traits, but yes you can put traits on crafter armor.  You can also put LEGENARY ENCHANTMENTS on armor you crafted also.  You cannot put LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS on end game drop gear, the legendary enchantment is already embedded on the end game drop gear. 

 

HERE IS How it works:

 

Blacksmith, Clothier or Woodworker

MAKES A RANK 10 WEAPON >  ENCHANTER PUTS A LEGENDARY ENCHANT ON IT.  

RESULT IS BEST CRAFTED  LEGENDARY RANK 10 WEAPON WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT.

 

Raider

OBTAINS A RANK 10 EPIC WEAPON (second best quality) WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANT EMBEDED ON IT >  BLACKSMITH UPRADES IT TO LEGENDARY.

RESULT  IS BEST LEGENDARY RANK 10 WEAPON WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT EMBEDED ON IT.

 

 

They both are equally as powerful in Quality Rating.

 

 

 

 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

3/10/14 1:28:54 AM#275
Originally posted by NomadMorlock
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by infiniti70
Originally posted by Bloodaxes

Well not everyone likes crafting so I could see why that is the majority on most mmorpgs.

Only game I ever got a crafting type to max was leather working and skinning(?) in WOW because I could skin the enemies while questing didn't have to go farm some nodes.

System should not call for everyone to craft, but rather reward those who do like to craft with a profession that is truly needed by the community. Making the best loot drop is no different than having NPCs heal better than any player can for hire at end game...basically telling healers they are not really needed. 

This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system?  Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components.  Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones.  Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.  

I disagree and this is exactly the mentality of the Theme Park Locust.  This creates a community of people who consume content, loot gear, and move on to the next game when they have nothing left to consume.

The same can be said about craft purists.  Everyone consumes content, putting powergamers into the overall classification of themepark is way off.  Everyone moves on to the next game if the developers no longer create content for them.  Since most MMOs tend to become a raid or die game, what casual gamer in his right mind is going to stick around and subsidize another play style and get nothing in return.  I don't understand why you people insist on trying to find a crafting simulator in an adventure game.  Seems to me that EQ Landmark is right up your alley, why not patronize those kinds of games instead of trying to ruin games for a different target audience.

 

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been about a nice balance between crafting and dropped loot.  There is no compelling reason to change this formula just because it's in an MMO format.

  timidobserver

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/14
Posts: 247

3/10/14 1:33:08 AM#276
Originally posted by Lokberg

snip 

You would probably be very surprised at just how big the Crafting community is, or how passionate they can be about their chosen 'vocations' So don't be too surprised if the whole crafting issue vs loot doesn't become a huge as in deal breaking factor in whether people choose to play the game or not, or for how long they stay with the game for that matter. 

Yeh you are right, I am honestly shocked by the attitudes of some of the crafters posting here. As far as I can tell, what the OP posted isn't even proven that be factual or supported by any kind of proof, but some crafters are deciding not to play the game solely based on what they see in this thread. Rather than reading the various interviews that ZM has done, crafters are making GoldTiger the authority on the game and making decisions based on his misinformation. So you are correct, I am indeed surprised to learn that they are that passionate.

With an open beta going on at various intervals, it seems more rational to just go and play the game and find out for yourself if you like it rather than letting GoldenTiger make the decision for you lol. 

Only one problem here mate we can get into beta and play a 4 month old build and see stuff how they were befor not how they are currently

Yes.... GoldenTiger > Older Beta build + ESO developer interview. That makes a lot of sense.

It still makes no sense to be able to base a decision on whether to play ESO based solely on what is found in this thread. There is very little information in this thread that is based on anything that can be proven to be accurate. 

 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

3/10/14 1:35:15 AM#277
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
+ Infinity

This is exactly what every MMO developer needs to do - period, end of every story.  Concentrate on making the game good.  Stop thinking about what people might like or what they might not like.  Just make the damn game as good as you can possibly make it, and quit catering to anyone in particular.  Devs are paid to design this stuff for a living.  Just do your jobs.

Reality...

 

 

That's what happens when devs "take charge" and unwilling to listen to their player needs. That's a year worth of Blizzard's "take charge" designing, which resulted in the worst drop of subs in it's history...over 5 million players left. And that screenshot can be plotted against the stock reports for proof, too.

 

And it's history that repeats itself every time publishers/devs get too big for their britches, as SOE learned in 2005, too. And John Romero did years earlier.

 

It should be taught in every game school, lest they forget and repeat history...again.

That is quite a leap in logic based on the limited data available in that chart.  It could easily reflect the game's age and the typical churn and decline that every aging MMO goes through.

  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

3/10/14 1:35:30 AM#278
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by NomadMorlock
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by infiniti70
Originally posted by Bloodaxes

Well not everyone likes crafting so I could see why that is the majority on most mmorpgs.

Only game I ever got a crafting type to max was leather working and skinning(?) in WOW because I could skin the enemies while questing didn't have to go farm some nodes.

System should not call for everyone to craft, but rather reward those who do like to craft with a profession that is truly needed by the community. Making the best loot drop is no different than having NPCs heal better than any player can for hire at end game...basically telling healers they are not really needed. 

This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system?  Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components.  Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones.  Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.  

I disagree and this is exactly the mentality of the Theme Park Locust.  This creates a community of people who consume content, loot gear, and move on to the next game when they have nothing left to consume.

The same can be said about craft purists.  Everyone consumes content, putting powergamers into the overall classification of themepark is way off.  Everyone moves on to the next game if the developers no longer create content for them.  Since most MMOs tend to become a raid or die game, what casual gamer in his right mind is going to stick around and subsidize another play style and get nothing in return.  I don't understand why you people insist on trying to find a crafting simulator in an adventure game.  Seems to me that EQ Landmark is right up your alley, why not patronize those kinds of games instead of trying to ruin games for a different target audience.

 

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been about a nice balance between crafting and dropped loot.  There is no compelling reason to change this formula just because it's in an MMO format.

Why cant both crafters and raiders be happy that they both have access to the best end game loot that is tailored to their play styles?     NO ONE HAS TO BE BETTER THEN THE OTHER.  that's just selfish to think one has to be better the other.   Don't we see this too often at work and in the real world, its a game, were all players here for enjoyment,  WHY CANT WE ALL WIN TOGETHER!

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 775

3/10/14 1:39:39 AM#279
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
  Wow... a chart.

This proves absolutely nothing except what you want it to prove.  You see a chart that proves developers don't need to take charge in the development of their own game... I see a chart that shows how 5 million people are tired of playing a 10 year old game.  This chart shows absolutely no proof whatsoever as to why people are leaving WoW.  And all I can tell you is that my conclusion is a lot more reasonable than yours by virtue of the fact that it isn't self-serving.  This is what is wrong with people arbitrarily using statistics to justify their argument - they're too easily manipulated.

It's more than you can provide, and on top of it, it can be matched to the stock reports.

 

So much for your idea. That's solid evidence.

 

What you see in that chart is Jan, 2011 to Jan, 2012 and the decline of players in game during peak hours. It shows the very next day after Ghostcrawler's "l2p" blog post is exactly when the decline started (I just wished the chart had an hourly time stamp for even more impact).

 

You may not want to believe the evidence, but 5 million people did leave the game, and it started when Blizzard "put their foot down". Which is the exact response to when SOE did the same in 2005 (thus, losing the subscription lead as people left EQ2); and what happen to John Romero when he exclaimed he was going to make you his female dog.

 

Game design is a mutual partnership, not a dictatorship...and history proves it.

Well, they had just killed off the most interesting villain in WoW lore and spent a huge amount of resources on a makeover of low level zones that few people really wanted and a good potion of the population didn't even see as an improvement, along with the storytelling taking a huge hit as Blizzard reassigned their A team creatives to Titan...

 

Now factor in a huge uptick in competition of newer games with markedly better graphics and no monthly fee....

 

Yeah there is a lot of other stuff going on there... I'll admit Ghostcrawler oversaw that decline but to blame -everything- on him is a bit much.

  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

3/10/14 1:40:56 AM#280
Originally posted by Knotwood
 

No your thinking of Traits, but yes you can put traits on crafter armor.  You can also put LEGENARY ENCHANTMENTS on armor you crafted also.  You cannot put LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS on end game drop gear, the legendary enchantment is already embedded on the end game drop gear. 

 

HERE IS How it works:

 

Blacksmith, Clothier or Woodworker

MAKES A RANK 10 WEAPON >  ENCHANTER PUTS A LEGENDARY ENCHANT ON IT.  

RESULT IS BEST CRAFTED  LEGENDARY RANK 10 WEAPON WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT.

 

Raider

OBTAINS A RANK 10 EPIC WEAPON (second best quality) WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANT EMBEDED ON IT >  BLACKSMITH UPRADES IT TO LEGENDARY.

RESULT  IS BEST LEGENDARY RANK 10 WEAPON WITH A LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENT EMBEDED ON IT.

 

 

They both are equally as powerful in Quality Rating.

 

 

 

I appreciate the clarification. Very well and succinctly explained.

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