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General Discussion  » Time to kill off WoW and give us something NEW

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73 posts found
  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

3/09/14 1:53:09 AM#41
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

Do you really believe that?  

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4766

3/09/14 3:16:03 AM#42
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

Do you really believe that?  

It's a pretty widely known fact.

Blizzard has never been known for innovation. Even before WoW. What few innovators the company did have, have long since left to work on their own projects; because they got tired of creating the same formulaic crap. Probably the most innovative thing Blizzard has done was create battle.net. Which is impressive, but again that team has long since left the company and is now being run by new people.

What Blizzard IS known for, is polish. They take other people's ideas, simplify them to the point of being for everybody, add some contrast & saturation, and tweak the crap outa the game until it runs smooth as butter. You can look at literally every game they've ever made, and see this same pattern over and over again. All you have to do is compare them to other games in the same genre that have been out before that time.

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 786

3/09/14 3:21:52 AM#43
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

lol what...

 

WoW streamlined questing, made a more accessable game to greater quantities of people, introduced tools that are considered to ruin communities and a slew of other things that people have come along and copied... that wasnt taken from ultima, muds, everquest, shadowbane etc...

 

oh and the one big thing they did that was new and unique was develop a warcraft game in MMORPG form, which to my knowledge no other company had previously done.

 

but clearly, they did nothing new EVER

This! If every MMO released today is a WoW clone, then what is WoW a clone of? That said, the biggest differentiation between WoW and other games is polish. You can't put a metric on it, but it's undeniable. 

 

it's so funny, people get so caught up in WoW hate they forget the small things like yeah it wasnt the first MMORPG but it definitely reinvented the wheel on some things and completely invented a heap of other things, blizzard is probably one of the only developers to embrace community addons to a point where if they see something that is super popular they make an effort to incorperate it into the game and as you said polish... everything is always gleaming.

Ah, Blizzard is now banning people with addons that just have errors.

 

Yep, you can lose your account permanently over LUA errors, now -- and they won't tell you until you get a ban notice.

bots often inject LUA via memory injection, LUA errors happen while botting too... and not everyone who claims they got banned for no reason is innocent.

  mbrodie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 786

3/09/14 3:27:45 AM#44
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

Do you really believe that?  

It's a pretty widely known fact.

Blizzard has never been known for innovation. Even before WoW. What few innovators the company did have, have long since left to work on their own projects; because they got tired of creating the same formulaic crap. Probably the most innovative thing Blizzard has done was create battle.net. Which is impressive, but again that team has long since left the company and is now being run by new people.

What Blizzard IS known for, is polish. They take other people's ideas, simplify them to the point of being for everybody, add some contrast & saturation, and tweak the crap outa the game until it runs smooth as butter. You can look at literally every game they've ever made, and see this same pattern over and over again. All you have to do is compare them to other games in the same genre that have been out before that time.

they made Looking for raid (simplified raids that could be completed by 25 strangers) and flex raiding all raids that scale based on the amount of people doing it.. and to this day i'm pretty sure they're still one of the only gaming companies that offers variable version of the same raids.. not "some raids are 10 man and some raids are 20 man" all raids are 10, 25 and everything inbetween these days" thats kind of innovative in the sense that they did it first, they innovated the way the old system worked.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16745

3/09/14 3:38:07 AM#45

Blizzard should indeed do something new but I don't see why they have to kill Wow for that reason. Some pleyers still enjoy it so let them continue with that.

Besides, there is no guarantee that Blizzards next MMO will be a hit, past successes are no guarantee.

And frankly does it look pretty bad with Blizz next MMO for the next few years, rumors say that they scrapped Titan and started with it from the beginning and if that is true 2018 would be a best case scenario for a release. Even if it is not and Blizz still are working hard on it we would have heard more if it was to be released the next 2 years so don't expect anything soon.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/09/14 4:06:32 AM#46
Originally posted by Loke666

Blizzard should indeed do something new but I don't see why they have to kill Wow for that reason. Some pleyers still enjoy it so let them continue with that.

Besides, there is no guarantee that Blizzards next MMO will be a hit, past successes are no guarantee.

And frankly does it look pretty bad with Blizz next MMO for the next few years, rumors say that they scrapped Titan and started with it from the beginning and if that is true 2018 would be a best case scenario for a release. Even if it is not and Blizz still are working hard on it we would have heard more if it was to be released the next 2 years so don't expect anything soon.

Blizzard actually scrapes huge projects if it doesn't feel like it is 'good enough'.

Warcraft Adventures and Starcraft Ghosts are the two high profile ones.

They already have another massive new hit in Hearthstone and Blizzard All Stars so I think Blizz will do fine.

 

A 10 year MMO with 7.8 Million subs, gotta give props for that.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Shadoed

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/03
Posts: 1484

3/09/14 1:26:45 PM#47


Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
What are you on, again?
It was 12 million before. How do you think they lost 5 million, again?
How do you think they lost more players than they have kept, too?
Arrogance meets reality, and it's a painful lesson.

 

....and by Blizzards own figures they have burned through 100,000,000 accounts in all the time it has been around in one guise or another, your point is?!?

Every game ebbs and flows, people join, people play, people leave, it is the great circle of gaming life, do you honestly believe that it was the same 12Mill and the exact same 7Mill left now that have always been there? Really?

As to your previous posts, the evidence was requested as they had performed their own searches to find some to back your claims and found nothing, so it is not an unreasonable request.

Either that or we all start along the same lines....for my part, i reckon that WoW actually has over 50Mill subs really and they are hiding the income from the rest so that they can pay for NASA to go up and paint a Blizzard logo on the moon....watch this space (or up in the sky)

It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/09/14 1:55:17 PM#48
Originally posted by Shadoed

As to your previous posts, the evidence was requested as they had performed their own searches to find some to back your claims and found nothing, so it is not an unreasonable request.

Either that or we all start along the same lines....for my part, i reckon that WoW actually has over 50Mill subs really and they are hiding the income from the rest so that they can pay for NASA to go up and paint a Blizzard logo on the moon....watch this space (or up in the sky)

Well, the evidence is there if folks looked closer enough. It's quite eyeopening. And I did what others did, randomly searched.

 

Some of the best things researchers find are just below the cruft that keeps randoms away. ;)

 

Years ago I was posting on the Usenet and encountered a newsgroup that was quite odd. They acted every bit criminal, and despite their denials and all, it was quite apparent they were doing some vile stuff. Flash forward a couple years later, sure enough 1 in that group is in jail over their criminal activities, and another was caught in a ring that implies exactly what is criminal. But their friends still protest their "innocence" (so I don't care about the peanut gallery heehawing, k?).

 

In 20 years, that has happened 4x now, with increasingly bigger fish in federal pen. I wonder why.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/10/14 12:16:44 AM#49
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
 

Well, the evidence is there if folks looked closer enough. It's quite eyeopening. And I did what others did, randomly searched.

 

Some of the best things researchers find are just below the cruft that keeps randoms away. ;)

 

Years ago I was posting on the Usenet and encountered a newsgroup that was quite odd. They acted every bit criminal, and despite their denials and all, it was quite apparent they were doing some vile stuff. Flash forward a couple years later, sure enough 1 in that group is in jail over their criminal activities, and another was caught in a ring that implies exactly what is criminal. But their friends still protest their "innocence" (so I don't care about the peanut gallery heehawing, k?).

 

In 20 years, that has happened 4x now, with increasingly bigger fish in federal pen. I wonder why.

According to this post, a federal crime and LUA exploits in WoW are related. Somehow.

By the magic of 'randomly searched evidence'.

LOLWUT? /Facepalm

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  fodell54

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 321

Swift as the windQuiet as the forestConquer like the fireSteady as the mountain-Sun Tzu

3/10/14 1:26:29 AM#50
[mod edit]

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

4/09/14 1:56:49 AM#51
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

lol what...

 

WoW streamlined questing not new, made a more accessable game to greater quantities of people not new, introduced tools that are considered to ruin communities and a slew of other things that people have come along and copied... that wasnt taken from ultima, muds, everquest, shadowbane etc... no, they were taken from other online games

 

but clearly, they did nothing new EVER

You prove my point.

  sadWinds

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/10
Posts: 96

4/11/14 11:12:53 AM#52
If not for pvp and xmog i would have quit this game a long time ago lol. Not a fan of raiding tho.. the only pve i do is 5 mans with an occasional raid finder.

  Grummus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 116

4/13/14 3:26:27 AM#53

WoW has tainted the whole genre.

Look at the pile of horrible MMO's based around it's design philosophy (Easy goals, spoon feeding instead of education, training), yet lacking in a proper amount of content to hold even a casual player base.

There will never be another proper MMO with a real, stable playerbase, nor will they be able to turn WoW around. Killing it off the rest of the way will change nothing.

It's as if McDonald's was the only restaurant in a large town, people ate BigMacs three meals a day, everyday. While not the best burger in the world; overall? They enjoyed them.

These other businesses see the success, the potential in selling their own BigMacs, they want a piece of the McDonald's moneyfactory; Suddenly there are a dozen other restaurants selling very similar burgers using various qualities of material. Some have great buns, but bad cheese, some have perfect meat patties, but terrible buns and toppings.

No other so far have got it quite right due to budget reasons, inexperience or simply not being intelligent enough to read the market and buckle down, producing what's needed to entice and HOLD a consumer base. Let alone have they realized that after eating BigMacs for so long that nobody (even the really casual consumers) wants more burgers, and as tired as they are of BigMacs, they're comfortable, stagnant and wary of the change to something potentially better, more rewarding, such as pizza, fried chicken or even sea food.

They new restaurant chains and corporations are too afraid to step out of the established, "proven" formula for success known as marketing burgers. This fear will never allow them to open a steak house for example, with the expectation that too many will find the idea of cutting their food or adding steak sauce before consumption will be too much work, thus driving them away, cementing in place the failure of the venture before it's first quarter.

I know nobody will read this, why did I put so much thought into it?
  Shadoed

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/03
Posts: 1484

4/13/14 10:08:41 AM#54
Originally posted by Keylogger_007

WoW has tainted the whole genre.

Look at the pile of horrible MMO's based around it's design philosophy (Easy goals, spoon feeding instead of education, training), yet lacking in a proper amount of content to hold even a casual player base.

There will never be another proper MMO with a real, stable playerbase, nor will they be able to turn WoW around. Killing it off the rest of the way will change nothing.

It's as if McDonald's was the only restaurant in a large town, people ate BigMacs three meals a day, everyday. While not the best burger in the world; overall? They enjoyed them.

These other businesses see the success, the potential in selling their own BigMacs, they want a piece of the McDonald's moneyfactory; Suddenly there are a dozen other restaurants selling very similar burgers using various qualities of material. Some have great buns, but bad cheese, some have perfect meat patties, but terrible buns and toppings.

No other so far have got it quite right due to budget reasons, inexperience or simply not being intelligent enough to read the market and buckle down, producing what's needed to entice and HOLD a consumer base. Let alone have they realized that after eating BigMacs for so long that nobody (even the really casual consumers) wants more burgers, and as tired as they are of BigMacs, they're comfortable, stagnant and wary of the change to something potentially better, more rewarding, such as pizza, fried chicken or even sea food.

They new restaurant chains and corporations are too afraid to step out of the established, "proven" formula for success known as marketing burgers. This fear will never allow them to open a steak house for example, with the expectation that too many will find the idea of cutting their food or adding steak sauce before consumption will be too much work, thus driving them away, cementing in place the failure of the venture before it's first quarter.

I know nobody will read this, why did I put so much thought into it?

Read, but it is a bit mixed up as you blame wow for tainting the genre and then go on to explain how everyone elses inability to be original is the problem.

You cannot blame Blizzard and WoW for being successful and there were bound to be those that would try and copy that success, but you do have to look at the rest of the industry and ask why they cannot come up with something original of their own (not that WoW was hugely original in itself). I think GW2 got pretty close, but let themselves down by rushing the release and poor support of it's users.

There are those who have some success doing something different like EVE, but have pushed themsleves in to a niche market.

The McDonalds analogy just doesn't wash these days either in the way you are putting it, people are probably more aware of the food they eat than they have ever been which in the UK at least has lead to every town centre and city centre being filled with a plethora of different fast food choices from the healthy to the crazy. So maybe what the gaming community needs is an awareness of what it wants rather than just saying what it doesn't want because if the developers knew what to aim for they could produce a much better targetted game.

It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1568

4/13/14 10:28:28 AM#55
Originally posted by Kaneth
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by mrputts
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

Would  you agree that even though what WoW did was nothing new. To the millions of players that never played an MMO it was new. 

 

your argument makes me think of this: "to the billions of people who never went on a plane flight, the earth is flat..."

 

you are stating a non-fact that you know is a non-fact as a fact and backing it up by the fact that it's a popular non-fact.

 

WoW certainly was the first mmo to many, myself included. But while you playing wow was something new to you, WoW itself didn't do anything new.

Depends on your definition of new. Blizzard certainly innovated on the previous MMO model by basically removing the tons of camping that was required to level in previous mmos. EQ2 did this before WOW, the game was released before WOW so Blizzard were not the first to remove the need for camping.

While quests are just another version of a mob grind, there is at least some purpose to it, and the questing system broke up the boring sit in a spot for hours killing a camp of mobs and waiting for respawn system that was in place in many mmos. It wasn't the first mmo that was solo friendly, but it certainly took the ability to solo into mainstream albeit with mixed results.  Again EQ2 did this before WOW, they introduced questing with marked npc's and solo questing before WOW.

Honestly, the "new" of WoW was that so many great systems were brought together under a single roof. Additionally, while EverQuest was certainly becoming mainstream (I remember starting to see movie and tv references to EQ pre-WoW), WoW really took the genre into the mainstream. Again, with mixed results.

I'd say the evolution of the genre that happened with WoW was certainly new. Nope the evolution came with EQ2, the game was out before WOW.

People forget that it was EQ2 that changed your classic mmo's into what we see today, Blizzard missed out by 2 weeks to lay any claims.

EQ2 the father of themepark mmo's by releasing two weeks before WOW.

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  jesteralways

Elite Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 616

4/13/14 10:54:44 AM#56
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Kaneth
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by mrputts
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

Would  you agree that even though what WoW did was nothing new. To the millions of players that never played an MMO it was new. 

 

your argument makes me think of this: "to the billions of people who never went on a plane flight, the earth is flat..."

 

you are stating a non-fact that you know is a non-fact as a fact and backing it up by the fact that it's a popular non-fact.

 

WoW certainly was the first mmo to many, myself included. But while you playing wow was something new to you, WoW itself didn't do anything new.

Depends on your definition of new. Blizzard certainly innovated on the previous MMO model by basically removing the tons of camping that was required to level in previous mmos. EQ2 did this before WOW, the game was released before WOW so Blizzard were not the first to remove the need for camping.

While quests are just another version of a mob grind, there is at least some purpose to it, and the questing system broke up the boring sit in a spot for hours killing a camp of mobs and waiting for respawn system that was in place in many mmos. It wasn't the first mmo that was solo friendly, but it certainly took the ability to solo into mainstream albeit with mixed results.  Again EQ2 did this before WOW, they introduced questing with marked npc's and solo questing before WOW.

Honestly, the "new" of WoW was that so many great systems were brought together under a single roof. Additionally, while EverQuest was certainly becoming mainstream (I remember starting to see movie and tv references to EQ pre-WoW), WoW really took the genre into the mainstream. Again, with mixed results.

I'd say the evolution of the genre that happened with WoW was certainly new. Nope the evolution came with EQ2, the game was out before WOW.

People forget that it was EQ2 that changed your classic mmo's into what we see today, Blizzard missed out by 2 weeks to lay any claims.

EQ2 the father of themepark mmo's by releasing two weeks before WOW.

SOE started to change those stuff after wow beta lifted nda and videos of new sort of mmorpg gameplay became viral. and then they released the "new evolution of eq"; eq2, just a few week before's wow's release to keep their playerbase. but they failed horribly simply because these changes they made were against everything they promised players and not only that; for these changes to happen they had to completely change gameplay of starting zones and they even removed 2(or was it 3) starting areas just to suit those changes. know your fact before posting. 

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2815

4/13/14 1:43:46 PM#57
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

WoW has never EVER in its entire run offered anything new or unique.

 

Why should we kill it for doing what its been doing when that never seemed to bother people before?

lol what...

 

WoW streamlined questing not new, made a more accessable game to greater quantities of people not new, introduced tools that are considered to ruin communities and a slew of other things that people have come along and copied... that wasnt taken from ultima, muds, everquest, shadowbane etc... no, they were taken from other online games

 

but clearly, they did nothing new EVER

You prove my point.

Ok lets try.

Which MMO before WoW was questing based? How many quests did that MMO have? 100? 200? Could you level up solely on quests? 

Which MMO allowed any class to solo to max level?

Which MMO had talent trees?

Which MMO had extensive addon support?

Which MMO had rested state?

Which MMO had battlegrounds?

Which MMO had flying mounts? Also an MMO which introduced flying mounts AFTER WoW did doesn't count even if it has an earlier release date.

Which MMO had a dungeon and/or raid finder?

 

 

 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1192

4/13/14 1:50:13 PM#58
Originally posted by SwampDragons
So you got bored and then they should kill wow? lol

That's pretty much the way a lot of gamers think - especially MMO gamers.

"The game doesn't interest me, so it shouldn't exist". 

There's a lot of truth to it when people describe (modern) MMO gamers as having a self-entitled attitude. OP is just one of many.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Vector_Arrow

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 15

4/13/14 1:56:47 PM#59

Yeah, I'm sure they want to kill the most popular MMO on the market to please your needs of something new.

 

They are already making something new and they made the clear, but in the mean time they will not just kill this game off.

 

If you owned WoW, would you kill it off and lose all of that revenue? You should be in their "socks" before you say they should kill this game off.

  Greymantle4

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 752

4/13/14 2:02:44 PM#60

If Blizzard had left the challenge of TBC and earlier to the leveling content my wife and I would still be playing. We loved making new characters and leveling in wow which was ruined with patches during WOTLK. Let alone the account gear that made battlegrounds a joke while leveling.

If pulling the plug on Wow and making a new MMO would bring that back I'm all for it. :)

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