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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The Themepark needs to close.

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147 posts found
  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2911

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

3/08/14 1:09:42 AM#101

What do you think happens in Sandbox? Its going to be repetition, often in another form and likely in an even more tedious manor. Any type of 'progression' will involve tedium, even if its repackaged in a slightly different shape. 

 

That and its  silly you mention stuff being like wow... you know... when everquest 1 basically consisted of 90% of the stuff wow had already, not to mention those "Old" games had pretty much a good majority of the elements EQ1 even had. Don't be giving credit silly to wow for something that it wasn't event he first to start, just the one to cash in the most from the EQ formula made more casual.

  NagilumSadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 290

3/08/14 2:50:55 AM#102
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
Prior to WoW we had a dynamic range of possibilities and the field was open to innovation.

Do people really believe that hogwash?

 

If the innovation did exist, you're admitting the whole industry was so weak and incompetent to allow one company to rule all of them.

 

What next, think Blizzard can part the Red Sea, too? -_-

I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or perfunctory comments in retort...

For example, when Steve Jobs created NeXT Computer Inc. it wasn't incompetency that ended the technological hardware line of that company, they were making some of the best hardware on the planet (at the time). However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology; the technology and software were over a decade ahead of the curve and cross collaboration was a rather cryptic concept (ref 'the NeXT book').

Later, after certain hallmarks were reached and public awareness increased, through osmosis demand was created for both the hardware and the operating system, both in different forms (ie apple OS X).

WoW, for example, already had a suscessful base (of 13 year olds) with their off-line game series, and when the WoW mmorpg entered the market it had the "McDonalds effect" of expandanding the base but accutely. Postmodern people do not seem to understand that greater numbers do not equal superior quality, but unfortunately this must be explained over (and over) again on all levels of the human condition.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 2005

3/08/14 2:55:21 AM#103
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?

Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.

+1

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/08/14 9:38:15 AM#104
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or  perfunctory comments in retort...

 However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology

^ The entitlement is strong in this guy...whoa!

 

Do we need to define more insidious comments, again?

 

Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-

 

BTW, now you know why my relative's computer shop dumped Apple back in the late 80s. Not only where their own representatives nasty with customers, they were with those in the business (and tried to rape them on parts costs). The local Mac shops came and went, because high price tags and the designer "artiste" mentality rubbed both the customer and techs wanting to service the pieces of junk. If customers wanted service in their shop, customers had to ditch Apple as a consequence (and since he developed a very good rep in building and maintaining networks for decades), they usually did. :)

 

Don't piss off the customers AND service people. It doesn't help that bottom line...at all.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4919

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/08/14 1:43:50 PM#105
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or  perfunctory comments in retort...

 However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology

 

 

Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-

 

Actually you are right.

Just on this one comment.

A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.

When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe.  This means that their ability to reason is impaired.

Thus angry = stupid.

Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

3/08/14 1:48:29 PM#106
Originally posted by DarkVergil

I'm sorry but it's time for something new.

When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.

However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.

 

The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.

Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames. 

After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.

 

A change needs to happen. 

Sorry too hard to make a sandbox game with EVERYTHING. What you end up getting is specialized games or games that don't do anything well.

 

 

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/08/14 2:26:48 PM#107
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or  perfunctory comments in retort...

 However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology

 

 

Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-

 

Actually you are right.

Just on this one comment.

A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.

When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe.  This means that their ability to reason is impaired.

Thus angry = stupid.

Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.

And those who read and comment about them, as well.

 

Think about it.

  Geebus80

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 96

3/08/14 2:33:09 PM#108

Sorry but this post is kind of egotistical, you are tired of themeparks (so am I) so dont play them. I would never think I had the right to say themepark games as a whole need to go away lol, kind of audacious dont you think?

 

You made a mistake, you paid for an obvious themepark game despite the fact you dont like theme parks. So now they all have to be destroyed? Come on man, the game industry is not here to satisfy you, it is here  to satisfy everyone and all their tastes.

 

If you dont like something then dont buy it lol, i mean really you going to hate orange juice, then go buy some and start a blog about how all orange juice must be destroyed so you never accidentally buy some again?

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4919

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/08/14 2:39:13 PM#109
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or  perfunctory comments in retort...

 However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology

 

 

Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-

 

Actually you are right.

Just on this one comment.

A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.

When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe.  This means that their ability to reason is impaired.

Thus angry = stupid.

Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.

And those who read and comment about them, as well.

 

Think about it.

Hmm.  Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything bad about you.  I was agreeing with you about that comment.  When people are raging logic gets thrown out the window.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

3/08/14 2:49:14 PM#110

I think the OP would have had a much better response if he had made the subject, "MMOers need more options than just Themepark games."  Rather than saying, "The Themepark needs to close." While there is certainly a large market for Sandbox games and other Themepark alternatives, to deny that there is still a large market for Themepark games as well, is just blinding yourself to the truth.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/08/14 2:50:43 PM#111
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?

Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.

There is virtually only ONE style of MMO that exists anymore. Anyone who likes that style has over a dozen MMOs to chose from. If you don't like that style, your choices become very limited. A WoW style MMO is fine, as long as there are more choices.

I don't mind playing in theme parks, but it sure would be nice if they didn't all pretty much have the same "rides" as WOW. (with just a couple of exceptions)

That is the issue really, too much similarity between most modern games and not enough titles with enough diversity to satisfy a much smaller segment of the market.  (of which I am one)

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

3/08/14 2:51:36 PM#112
Originally posted by DarkVergil

I'm sorry but it's time for something new.

When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.

However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.

 

The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.

Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames. 

After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.

 

A change needs to happen. 

While i agree that there are too many ThemePark MMO's, i think now that SoE is realizing the potential of Sandbox MMO's we will start seeing more games move to this style. 

That being said, will we be saying the same thing in 10 years if we get a new Clone (meaning WoW clone) except its just a sandbox and everyone who wants to be as sucessful thinks the sandbox is the way to go. 

I am keeping a close eye on ArcheAge i really think this game combines the ThemePark and Sandbox into a cohesive amalgam of MMO ideas. I believe that if this is done in a way that players enjoy it has some serious potential for long term growth. Of course Trion is making this, and umm they made Defiance. Course Rift is a great ThemePark, but Defiance is such a black mark, on a developer i felt had great potential, i am hoping that ArcheAge will remove this bias i have towards Trion.

I am excited about the MMO future, i really think with the resurgence of the Sandbox we will start seeing more creative games, and who knows we might get a new genre.... not sure what.

Lolipops !

  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

3/08/14 3:01:38 PM#113

I agree with the OP 100% - there should be no more themepark games.

 

Themeparks are an over-flogged dead horse.

 

It's time to make all future games sandbox - give the player far more freedom and variety.

  crasset15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 181

3/08/14 3:19:34 PM#114

Wurm online is one of the most anti-themepark MMOs out there. Too bad most people on this site pretend it doesn't exist, and instead keep bitching about lack of variety.

Yeah it has a (out-of-game) cash shop where you can buy ingame money. While the game technically qualifies as pay to win, the majority of players progress through ingame work. Very rarely do you see some rich snob buying their wealth, and those people don't usually have the attention span to last more than 1 month anyway. 

I can honestly say that I'm one of the biggest cash shop haters on this site, and the cash shop in this game didn't bother me one bit. It isn't shoved in your face, and at no point does the game make you feel like you are forced to go use it.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

3/08/14 3:22:05 PM#115
After reading this pointless thread, the only thing that i want the Devs to do is release more Themeparks just so that they can continue mocking the Ego of entitled MMO'ers since the Themepark market is there, even more than the Sandbox market.

  GuyClinch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 487

3/08/14 4:01:48 PM#116
Originally posted by Voiidiin
Originally posted by DarkVergil

I'm sorry but it's time for something new.

When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.

However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.

 

The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.

Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames. 

After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.

 

A change needs to happen. 

While i agree that there are too many ThemePark MMO's, i think now that SoE is realizing the potential of Sandbox MMO's we will start seeing more games move to this style. 

That being said, will we be saying the same thing in 10 years if we get a new Clone (meaning WoW clone) except its just a sandbox and everyone who wants to be as sucessful thinks the sandbox is the way to go. 

I am keeping a close eye on ArcheAge i really think this game combines the ThemePark and Sandbox into a cohesive amalgam of MMO ideas. I believe that if this is done in a way that players enjoy it has some serious potential for long term growth. Of course Trion is making this, and umm they made Defiance. Course Rift is a great ThemePark, but Defiance is such a black mark, on a developer i felt had great potential, i am hoping that ArcheAge will remove this bias i have towards Trion.

I am excited about the MMO future, i really think with the resurgence of the Sandbox we will start seeing more creative games, and who knows we might get a new genre.... not sure what.

A themepark made by players is still a themepark. I don't understand why EQ:N is called a sandbox. It's not anymore sanboxy then other MMOs. Sure you can destroy stuff - but it comes right back a few minutes later.

Now EQN:Landmark is a sandbox but I doubt it will be popular. People like content - they don't like making content. Even if I watch a bad movie I don't say - hey I am going to go make a better one. No, I wait till a better one comes out.

  NagilumSadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 290

3/08/14 4:29:28 PM#117
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or  perfunctory comments in retort...

 However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology

 

 

Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-

 

Actually you are right.

Just on this one comment.

A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.

When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe.  This means that their ability to reason is impaired.

Thus angry = stupid.

Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.

And those who read and comment about them, as well.

 

Think about it.

Hmm.  Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything bad about you.  I was agreeing with you about that comment.  When people are raging logic gets thrown out the window.

 

Check and mate...


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

3/08/14 4:34:17 PM#118
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?

Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.

If there were any options other than themepark, old school and  Darkfall I would agree with you.  But there aren't any options, currently, for people that like MMO's with risk vs reward and consequences for your actions.

 

There appear to be some in development but that doesn't do much good for people that don't like linear quest hub themeparks. 

 

So the option is to not make any other themeparks?  Strange logic. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/08/14 5:16:14 PM#119
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?

Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.

If there were any options other than themepark, old school and  Darkfall I would agree with you.  But there aren't any options, currently, for people that like MMO's with risk vs reward and consequences for your actions.

 

There appear to be some in development but that doesn't do much good for people that don't like linear quest hub themeparks. 

 

So the option is to not make any other themeparks?  Strange logic. 

To quote:

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/quotes

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

3/08/14 9:46:13 PM#120
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?

 

Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.



There is virtually only ONE style of MMO that exists anymore. Anyone who likes that style has over a dozen MMOs to chose from. If you don't like that style, your choices become very limited. A WoW style MMO is fine, as long as there are more choices.

I agree 100%. There are many, many more themeparks than sandboxes. I wish there were more choices, but alas, there are not.

 

Also, what kind of sandbox do they create?
- What kind of PvP? Full Loot? Open World? Flag-able? Realm/Faction PvP? A combination of the previously mentioned? PvE only? A 50/50 mix of PvP and PvE?
- What about Crafting? Or Housing? Included? Deep systems? Tagged on at the very last? Ignored?
- What setting? High Fantasy? Low Fantasy? Sci-Fi? Real world? Apocalyptic with Zombies? Medieval? Survival?
- What kind of combat? Tab Target? Action? A mix of the two?
- How bad is the Death Penalty? Perma-death? Near Perma-Death (like 100 lives)? If a player dies in a battle, do they NOT get back into the fight? Maybe a simple respawn at some specific point, costing a couple of silver pieces per level? XP loss? Stat degradation?

These are just off the top of my head. There is no "one sandbox" to rule them all :)

I don't really get into sanboxes, not that I've given them much of a chance. I'm looking for a challenging PVE themepark.

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