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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Enough with the twitching already!!!

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178 posts found
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

3/07/14 11:47:05 PM#21
Originally posted by Jimmydean
 

As opposed to twitch based gameplay, where you aim in the general direction of the Monster you are fighting and left click.

I think the biggest difference in the systems is when they swing back.

The whole thing really falls into games are going to keep on advancing towards "realistic" simulated fantasy and dice roll mechanics are old. Standing there bashing each other over the head rolling dice to decide the out come worked for PnP because there was a lot more imagination involved. In games it looks silly.

They're hardly perfect now but it's taking baby steps towards "realistic" fantasy.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20703

3/08/14 12:00:01 AM#22
Originally posted by Dauntis

Anyone else tired of people clammoring for twitch combat in MMORPGs?

Why should my geared out supposably awesome warrior have to depend on my keyboard skills in an RPG?

Twitch players have all the rest of gamedom to slap around their great eye-coordination and quick fingers, why can't we have at least one genre for us slow old bastards?

Because no one owe you a genre and that the devs produce for whoever they want to cater to?

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5269

3/08/14 12:26:50 AM#23
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Jimmydean
 

As opposed to twitch based gameplay, where you aim in the general direction of the Monster you are fighting and left click.

I think the biggest difference in the systems is when they swing back.

The whole thing really falls into games are going to keep on advancing towards "realistic" simulated fantasy and dice roll mechanics are old. Standing there bashing each other over the head rolling dice to decide the out come worked for PnP because there was a lot more imagination involved. In games it looks silly.

They're hardly perfect now but it's taking baby steps towards "realistic" fantasy.

I think it boils down to......"Because they can" I don't think online games from last decade could have supported combat closer to real time.

I enjoy both styles. I am playing GW2 and I think there is room for it and of course improvements. That said, I also enjoy games where I build my character and HE does the dodging.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  YoungCaesar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 245

3/08/14 12:33:18 AM#24
Originally posted by Dauntis

Anyone else tired of people clammoring for twitch combat in MMORPGs?

Why should my geared out supposably awesome warrior have to depend on my keyboard skills in an RPG?

Twitch players have all the rest of gamedom to slap around their great eye-coordination and quick fingers, why can't we have at least one genre for us slow old bastards?

This is the reason mmorpgs suck these days... You want your awesome warrior to play by itself, this system only works for themeparks, in a sandbox you WANT twitch skill so it doesnt come down to a lvl 100 insta killing lvl 50-60 noobs, and gear doesnt make that big of a difference

  Jimmydean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1302

3/08/14 12:35:51 AM#25
I'm pretty sure at this point we have made a switch from MMORPG players playing MMORPGs, to FPS players playing MMORPGs. They are the wave of the future, and would probably be happier if MMORPGs were just reskinned FPSs with swords instead of guns.
  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

3/08/14 12:37:17 AM#26
Originally posted by YoungCaesar
Originally posted by Dauntis

Anyone else tired of people clammoring for twitch combat in MMORPGs?

Why should my geared out supposably awesome warrior have to depend on my keyboard skills in an RPG?

Twitch players have all the rest of gamedom to slap around their great eye-coordination and quick fingers, why can't we have at least one genre for us slow old bastards?

This is the reason mmorpgs suck these days... You want your awesome warrior to play by itself, this system only works for themeparks, in a sandbox you WANT twitch skill so it doesnt come down to a lvl 100 insta killing lvl 50-60 noobs, and gear doesnt make that big of a difference

Not quite true, the only time Twitch skill will help you is when you know its coming. if you don't then something will one hit you without you even having time to piss yourself.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

3/08/14 12:44:30 AM#27
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Quizzical

Why, indeed, should your success in a game depend on what you do in that game?  Surely the answer to that is obvious.

Now, twitch combat isn't the only way to prevent combat from being completely stupid and boring, but it is probably the most common.

That depends on exactly what it is you do. In his example, his success in the game would depend on how he built his character vs the other being learning to get the timing of certain visual queues memorized.

And as far as non-twitch combat being boring.....Have you played WoW lately? I stopped recently because I couldn't keep up with the need for raiding. It wasn't for boring combat. In fact, the most popular mods downloaded in WoW are to assist with combat rotations since it's actually more difficult that probably 95% of the people in this forum will admit do.

Doesn't that make it easy then? 

Easy? I never thought of WoW's combat as easy. Not in the sense or context it's generally referenced here at MMORPG.COM. But if by easy, you mean giving me more information as to help me make a better decisions, then yes.

But here is how to succeed in WoW - it's as easy as 1,2,....3 Just follow these three steps to become a legendary raid champion

1. Know your rotation, gear specs

2. Memorize the fights and move accordingly, you will know when to move because you have the fights memorized and therefore there is no need to react in a "twitch" manner

3. Execute your rotation as best you can and yes addons make that easier but addons are part of the game.

World of Warcraft - Easy peezy lemon squeezy

Means zero to me...look at my sig.

 

Really, really sick of the pewpewpew mindset in games. Like they're totally oblivious to anything else in a game but shoot/hit/kill. -_-

  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2912

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

3/08/14 12:51:27 AM#28

Why can't their be both? No reason to have both types on the market, variety is always great. At the same time, keep in mind you shouldn't "Need" to breeze through and have everything handed to you without effort or reflexes required either, no challenge will bore you far quicker then you expect.  Not all "Twitch" games are devoid of parts that a more relaxed player like yourself can enjoy too. 

  Lqeaer

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/14
Posts: 3

3/08/14 12:53:30 AM#29
Originally posted by YoungCaesar
Originally posted by Dauntis

Anyone else tired of people clammoring for twitch combat in MMORPGs?

Why should my geared out supposably awesome warrior have to depend on my keyboard skills in an RPG?

Twitch players have all the rest of gamedom to slap around their great eye-coordination and quick fingers, why can't we have at least one genre for us slow old bastards?

This is the reason mmorpgs suck these days...

Yeah!

Wow mmorpg 2014 here.

  YoungCaesar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 245

3/08/14 12:59:37 AM#30
Originally posted by Rayshe
Originally posted by YoungCaesar
Originally posted by Dauntis

Anyone else tired of people clammoring for twitch combat in MMORPGs?

Why should my geared out supposably awesome warrior have to depend on my keyboard skills in an RPG?

Twitch players have all the rest of gamedom to slap around their great eye-coordination and quick fingers, why can't we have at least one genre for us slow old bastards?

This is the reason mmorpgs suck these days... You want your awesome warrior to play by itself, this system only works for themeparks, in a sandbox you WANT twitch skill so it doesnt come down to a lvl 100 insta killing lvl 50-60 noobs, and gear doesnt make that big of a difference

Not quite true, the only time Twitch skill will help you is when you know its coming. if you don't then something will one hit you without you even having time to piss yourself.

your looking at this from the epic gear treadmill point of view... in a twitch skill based mmorpg, combat should be scaled where the strongest gear doesnt make you uber invincible 1 shotting everything, but give you a little more margin for error...

of course in a pvp game theres always the chance of getting ambushed, its part of the fun, and there is a certain skill in avoiding them as well...

Nothing compared to 2 idiots staring at each other while their virtual dice rolls decides the battle for them, oh and also with a million particle effects so it looks like your actually doing something....

  crack_fox

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

3/08/14 1:16:51 AM#31
Originally posted by YoungCaesar

Nothing compared to 2 idiots staring at each other while their virtual dice rolls decides the battle for them, oh and also with a million particle effects so it looks like your actually doing something....

  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1230

3/08/14 1:31:05 AM#32

Twitch combat is heavy reliant on a good Computer and Connection, is the most targeted system for cheats anmd hacks, the least RPG frinedly system - its place is Action Games.

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

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  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6135

3/08/14 1:52:54 AM#33

I thought this was going to be a gripe session about TwitchTV. :p What is it lately with these weird threads where the OP wants choices removed for everyone else?

I like action combat. That's what I call it, not twitch. The combat systems in these types of games also requires gear and character builds just like in traditional tab-target RNG dice roll combat. It's not purely twitch like action/platformer game play like on consoles. Action style combat can also have hard tab targeting like GW2, soft-lock targeting like Neverwinter, or free reticule combat with no locks. Some of my favorite systems are Neverwinter, Tera, and GW2. I also like Dragon's Prophet and RaiderZ.

I also like dice-roll / RNG "tab-target" style combat. There isn't as much variation in this combat style, so a lot of games feel like they have very similar combat game play. Even so, I still like EQ2, Rift, and Aura Kingdom. This style of combat heavily relies on how skills feel to make it compelling.

Turn-based combat is also fun. I'm not a one way only type of gamer. If you don't like a combat style play a different game.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Konfess

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 797

3/08/14 1:57:23 AM#34
My theory is, it’s the failed FPS(twitch) gamers who want to see this combat style in RPGs.  They think they can beat old and slow RPG gamers at twitch.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Solar_Prophet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 734

WAAAGH!

3/08/14 1:57:34 AM#35
Originally posted by LagKingBong

There are plenty of turn-based MMO's [mod edit] Or chess. FFXIV, to start, is a super easy combat system requiring barely any coordination.

Why do you think you are entitled to play role playing fighting games/hack-n-slashes created for skill-based players that expect to be able to dodge? Play pokemon, or several of the released RPGs/tacticalRPG requiring little or no skill. 

[mod edit] 

RPGs will never solely cater to older players that want a more casual experience, period. 

I guarantee that if you tried playing any of those 'no skill' tactical RPGs, you'd be screaming on the forums for help in five minutes. No skill my ass. [mod edit] 

Also, you must have played FFXIV for about five minutes to make such an idiotic statement. While it's not the most difficult MMO around, it most certainly isn't 'super easy'.

[mod edit] 

Example of a common core math problem: If you have four pencils and seven apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple. Because aliens don't wear hats.

  Konfess

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 797

3/08/14 1:59:40 AM#36
Originally posted by Thorqemada

Twitch combat is heavy reliant on a good Computer and Connection, is the most targeted system for cheats anmd hacks, the least RPG frinedly system - its place is Action Games.

A most true statement, hear hear.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Solar_Prophet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 734

WAAAGH!

3/08/14 2:04:32 AM#37
Originally posted by Konfess
My theory is, it’s the failed FPS(twitch) gamers who want to see this combat style in RPGs.  They think they can beat old and slow RPG gamers at twitch.

Hah! Reminds me of a John Steinbeck quote.

"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."

Example of a common core math problem: If you have four pencils and seven apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple. Because aliens don't wear hats.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4884

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

3/08/14 2:24:40 AM#38

Let me explain you idea behind twitch combat in mmo. Maybe you be more receptive when you understand it :

 

Combat is something you do over and over , for hundreds of thousands times in course mmo.

Turn based combat can really easily be broken down into pattern. So let say for normal mob : 1 , 2 , 2 , 4 , 1 , 2 ...

This turns into boredom. And since the combat is the majority of play , and its pattern repetition. Developers decided to make combat more twitch , because twitch is unpredictable (more or less)

 

Now if someone would come up with good turn based system  that is not pattern based....

 

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3460

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/08/14 2:36:03 AM#39

I wouldn't worry too much, Most of these so called "action games" are just cleverly concealed tab targeting.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3460

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/08/14 2:40:18 AM#40


Originally posted by Lobotomist
Let me explain you idea behind twitch combat in mmo. Maybe you be more receptive when you understand it :

 

Combat is something you do over and over , for hundreds of thousands times in course mmo.

Turn based combat can really easily be broken down into pattern. So let say for normal mob : 1 , 2 , 2 , 4 , 1 , 2 ...

This turns into boredom. And since the combat is the majority of play , and its pattern repetition. Developers decided to make combat more twitch , because twitch is unpredictable (more or less)


Playing a certain game that shall remain nameless, I can already see patterns in its "action combat" down to waiting 10 seconds then position myself correctly to interrupt a mobs aoe then back stab.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

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