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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Will ADD-ONS kill this game?

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352 posts found
  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 449

3/06/14 8:07:47 PM#321
Originally posted by Pednick
Add-ons are fine, if you personally don't like it, you have a "choice" not to use them, and who ever likes them has the choice to use them. It's never a good idea to take away choice.

You should really read what has been posted in a thread before posting.

  Pednick

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/14
Posts: 29

3/06/14 8:18:30 PM#322
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Pednick
Add-ons are fine, if you personally don't like it, you have a "choice" not to use them, and who ever likes them has the choice to use them. It's never a good idea to take away choice.

You should really read what has been posted in a thread before posting.

You should really learn what a shared view is, before posting.

"An it harm none, do what thou wilt"

  mbrodie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 752

3/06/14 8:34:24 PM#323
Originally posted by LupusVai
The irony  is that all the people defending the PvP mod and saying that it doesn't give a bias and is perfectly fair will all also be running the privacy mod so that no one else can use the PvP mod on them. Ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy. ;-) 

you're confused... i will happily be running a modified player / target frame UI mod, that shows me all said info, but i wont use the information blocker, as i dont care enough todo so... having the extra information, being able to track buffs and debuffs is a quality of life feature for me, one i prefer to play with. i dont care if other people can also see my information, i expect it in a MMO releasing in 2014.

 

the actual ironic part is that people are all like "i dont want to HAVE to use addons, but instead of using one that gives me the information, i'll use one that blocks the information". thats illogical no matter how you look at it.

  mbrodie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 752

3/06/14 8:38:54 PM#324
Originally posted by watchawatcha
Originally posted by Rattenmann

Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.

It's not meant to be seen.  It can't be seen from the standard UI.  Your entire premise is false.  In fact those mods came out of a test of a game that is not released yet.  How do you know they meant for the mods to be able to read other players info?  The API process is still under NDA.

You know what information we do have is them talking about their UI and not watching other peoples' cast bar.  They talk about you seeing animations and being able to recognize what the opponent is doing.  You're reaching for the crutch without giving ESO game design a fair shot.  The problem with all this is that it impacts other players gameplay because the information you are getting is stuff you wouldn't know otherwise without using a the mod in the OP or a similar mod.  People will have to use it to stay as competitive as others whom will use the mod.  Those that do not will be accepting that they are playing PVP at a disadvantage.  

sorry but thats an irrelevant argument "it's not meant to be seen it cant be seen fro the standard UI" completely disagree, it is meant to be seen... in ZOS vision of how they want their UI to look, they wanted a minimalistic approach to a UI which for some players it's fine and they're happy with that, but they also understand that for some players this isnt acceptable so they designed an API and opened up add-ons to be develiped so the people who want more, can get it so everyone can "play how they want" which is a big design philosophy to them regardless of how you try to spin it

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

3/06/14 9:28:44 PM#325
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by watchawatcha
Originally posted by Rattenmann

Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.

It's not meant to be seen.  It can't be seen from the standard UI.  Your entire premise is false.  In fact those mods came out of a test of a game that is not released yet.  How do you know they meant for the mods to be able to read other players info?  The API process is still under NDA.

You know what information we do have is them talking about their UI and not watching other peoples' cast bar.  They talk about you seeing animations and being able to recognize what the opponent is doing.  You're reaching for the crutch without giving ESO game design a fair shot.  The problem with all this is that it impacts other players gameplay because the information you are getting is stuff you wouldn't know otherwise without using a the mod in the OP or a similar mod.  People will have to use it to stay as competitive as others whom will use the mod.  Those that do not will be accepting that they are playing PVP at a disadvantage.  

sorry but thats an irrelevant argument "it's not meant to be seen it cant be seen fro the standard UI" completely disagree, it is meant to be seen... in ZOS vision of how they want their UI to look, they wanted a minimalistic approach to a UI which for some players it's fine and they're happy with that, but they also understand that for some players this isnt acceptable so they designed an API and opened up add-ons to be develiped so the people who want more, can get it so everyone can "play how they want" which is a big design philosophy to them regardless of how you try to spin it

"... Finding the right answers to these questions often means leaving the API very open during this beta phase. It helps us see where limits may or may not be and helps us determine what makes the best possible ESO experience for everyone." 

"...As we continue beta testing, we’ll continue to evaluate add-ons and the implications they have on other players, but you can expect changes to the API before launch..."

I guarantee you - you're not going to get information about other players - period.  And I guarantee you - you're not going to be able to auto-cast stuff.

 

Why?  Because of what too many people have already said to you.

"...  We do not want those who aren’t interested in using an add-on to feel compelled to do so because they cannot remain competitive without them..."

 

Also, their top priority is not mod support for the API:

"...as a game played with thousands of others, we also must be mindful of any mods that give clear mechanical advantages in competitive situations.  Maintaining a level playing field will always be our first priority..."

  mbrodie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 752

3/06/14 11:24:48 PM#326
Read into PR. Fluff all you like, I honestly don't care either way... Quality of life will be better if I have it, I won't cry if I don't... All the anti-add-on crowd however are going to be seriously butthurt when they realise Zos giving information any Aaa mmo offers thier players just in the form of add-ons like target information ships at launch and is still available... What then what will you do, not play, whine some more, make justifications why they left it in afterall? What's your course of action when target information ships at launch in the API?

  mbrodie

Elite Member

Joined: 5/15/04
Posts: 752

3/06/14 11:28:37 PM#327
I am however glad you now have a scapegoat for Pvp, no one can ever outplayed you because if someone kills you they clearly are using add-ons... Also ZOS. Top priority is shipping the game and making $$$ and there is just as many people who want more information then what's offered, so they'll do what files their pockets

  Tondagon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 19

3/07/14 12:41:37 AM#328
Originally posted by Saxx0n

Here is a direct quote from a programmer at a major ESO site discussing being able to access the api info referring to the "exact" pvp mod that has been mentioned here.

Out of respect I will not link this site or poster but it is not that hard to find.

" As a seasoned macro dev , I can tell you that if you give me info on a enemy player via api or even a graphic, I can hotspot that graphic and auto fire skills when needed. As it stands now I have totally owned because of this and sent videos to Z to help them see the need to tone back the enemy data that is exposed."

 

How do you feel about that pvp ui mod now?

 

 

Yup, the devs need to lock some of that down tight. Anytime PVP is involved, people are going to rewrite the book attempting to gain an edge.

  5ubzer0

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 43

3/07/14 12:41:55 AM#329

I really hope they are going to prohibit the use of add-ons that offer combat information that is not available through the vanilla ui. Seeing an enemy player's health, mana, stamina and casting bar offers a clear advantage in pvp. Will I use these add-ons, if it's allowed? For sure. I am not gonna gimp myself to make a statement.

Right now the game is a breath of fresh air with its minimalistic ui. Please keep it that way.

  hulgar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/13
Posts: 94

3/07/14 12:58:40 AM#330
I will always defend that a game come "as it is" (a multi player game)..meaning that..vanilla UI..vanilla screen..take it or leave it..NO ADDONS!!!
  coventryhagdog

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/14
Posts: 88

3/07/14 2:48:12 AM#331

People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.

Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.

Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.

It's not just about you, it's an MMO where in a group setting you should be prepared to accommodate the needs of others, especially the group as a whole. 

It's the same with roleplaying in real life, or playing a game of D&D: you always play to maximize the fun of everyone involved, not just yourself.

 

 

 

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 861

3/07/14 2:53:01 AM#332
Originally posted by coventryhagdog

People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.

Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.

Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.

It's not just about you, it's an MMO where in a group setting you should be prepared to accommodate the needs of others, especially the group as a whole. 

It's the same with roleplaying in real life, or playing a game of D&D: you always play to maximize the fun of everyone involved, not just yourself.

 

 

 

Apparently there are people who like to play sub-optimal builds so be prepared to get kicked after trying to enforce your addons.

  coventryhagdog

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/14
Posts: 88

3/07/14 3:12:09 AM#333
Originally posted by cura

 

Apparently there are people who like to play sub-optimal builds so be prepared to get kicked after trying to enforce your addons.

Yet the people who hate add-ons are a vocal minority, so I wouldn't expect to get kicked at all.

See WoW.

 

  FaustusIV

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/14
Posts: 57

3/07/14 3:13:30 AM#334

 

[mod edit]

 

"Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others."

 

Thats pretty explicit.

 

They have designed the game with addon support and a comprehensive API because they WANT us to mod it. They WANT us to "play the ui" [mod edit]

 

So as long as we dont force you to use any addons you dislike (which we are not, never have and never could) we are golden.

 

 

  Reticulata

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 82

3/07/14 12:38:47 PM#335
Originally posted by coventryhagdog

People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.

Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.

Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.

 

 

 

Lol, whatever.

You can track performance based on a corpse on the ground.

Lots of people enjoy the challenge of playing what you call "sub-optimal" spec. The true measure is in a group that can go in and use skill and teamwork to defeat an encounter with fewer numbers in the group, or with a non cookie-cutter template classes.

If you want to use spread sheets to force people to play some predetermined template that you approve of, go become an accountant or something.

Approaching your 40s does not give you some badge of honor. I am in your same range, as are the people I play with, some being much older and more experienced than you. If you came into our group whining about add-ons and tracking numbers, prepared to be kicked yourself, right back to WoW.

  Butch808

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/09
Posts: 320

3/07/14 12:43:26 PM#336
When they rein in the ESO API at launch i will be laughing at the salty tears of the people who want WoW addons.
  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

3/07/14 2:35:37 PM#337
Originally posted by coventryhagdog
Originally posted by cura

 

Apparently there are people who like to play sub-optimal builds so be prepared to get kicked after trying to enforce your addons.

Yet the people who hate add-ons are a vocal minority, so I wouldn't expect to get kicked at all.

See WoW.

 

I isn't a vocal minority, though.  The polls on the beta show it's about half and half.  There's enough reason to not warrant add-ons in the game that offer clear advantages.

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

3/07/14 2:40:55 PM#338
Originally posted by FaustusIV

 

[mod edit]

 

"Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others."

 

Thats pretty explicit.

 

They have designed the game with addon support and a comprehensive API because they WANT us to mod it. They WANT us to "play the ui" [mod edit]

 

So as long as we dont force you to use any addons you dislike (which we are not, never have and never could) we are golden.

 

 

Yes there are plenty of add-ons.  They've been linked to in this very thread, even.  If your add-on forces me to use a similar add-on just to stay competitive... it IS making our choice for us.  That's all there is to it.  The devs have spoken on this issue.  Your API access is going to be far more limited than it was in Beta.  Deal with it.

  Abardomas

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/14
Posts: 160

esouniverse.com

3/09/14 5:32:40 PM#339

So it looks like the community is split on this one. Looking back at other MMOs, people were creating and using add-ons that other players didn't even know about! At least we all know what's out there and we can make the best of it. Of the add-ons I've seen, I personally think they are pretty damn cool! :D

  Voiidiin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 826

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

3/09/14 6:02:20 PM#340
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by LupusVai
The irony  is that all the people defending the PvP mod and saying that it doesn't give a bias and is perfectly fair will all also be running the privacy mod so that no one else can use the PvP mod on them. Ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy. ;-) 

you're confused... i will happily be running a modified player / target frame UI mod, that shows me all said info, but i wont use the information blocker, as i dont care enough todo so... having the extra information, being able to track buffs and debuffs is a quality of life feature for me, one i prefer to play with. i dont care if other people can also see my information, i expect it in a MMO releasing in 2014.

 

the actual ironic part is that people are all like "i dont want to HAVE to use addons, but instead of using one that gives me the information, i'll use one that blocks the information". thats illogical no matter how you look at it.

Why are you so worried about others blocking you from seeing their "stats" ? 

If i feel that having my personal character information is giving others an advantage over me, because they are using a 3rd party mod, then yes i might get a mod myself disabling your snooping mod.

It is not illogical to want to keep my privacy over others snooping into things they do not "need" to know.

Also, since you stated it i will counter it, in 2014 i think its time we get away from the over abundance of information we have on each other when it comes to a PvP situation. I think it is much more forward thinking in requiring a player to rely on there skill and not on the info graph they have displayed. Add-ons that encroach on privacy of players is an old trope brought about by lazy gamers who felt the only way to get an edge in WoW was letting a 3rd party mod play for them.

Course i do not expect you to agree with any of what i have said, i am sure you will flame me and try to belittle my opinions just like you have done to anyone else that disagrees with your opinion.

TLDR: If i have to get a 3rd party mod to keep your nose outta my business then i will force myself to get it. Does nto mean i want to have to do it, just means i want to counter-act your noseyness. 

Lolipops !

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