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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Is the PvP anything other than zerg?

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128 posts found
  Xsorus

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 174

3/05/14 11:06:45 PM#101
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by DMKano

You can play with a zerg - small group, or even venture out solo.

It's up to you.

 

Very large zergs (above 200 players) currently bring a huge lag spike with them - over 10seconds is what was reported - so bad that if you are a defender and the keep walls are down - the zerg will simply all roll in and due to lag being in seconds you won't have ANY chance of even get any attacks off before you die.

Now the zerg has the same latency issue - but due to larger numbers they will win as you can't use any defensive tactics in lag - larger numbers win.

It's a pretty serious issue that Zenimax will need to address somehow.

 

LOL , and not a week ago someone was boosting how ESO beats GW2 at WvW , and displays all characters and whatnot.

Now we know its all just hyped bull.

At least GW2 had time to fix the issue of players not displaying. Which they did in first time to eliminate above mentioned lag. Now GW2 has no lag and can display much more than 200 players.

 

But. As zerg goes. WvW PVP will always be about zerg. And objective flipping.

No WvW game never managed to eliminate that. From WAR to GW2 , and now ESO.

Dont fool yourself.

 

A. GW2 will lag its balls off if you have more then 60 people....200 Players would probably cause the Anet server to come through your monitor and punch you in the face.

 

B. The previous betas with large numbers of players on the map didn't result in the lag, Probably cause they were trying to stress the servers this time to over load them. That is where the lag was from, Not from FPS lag (which you'll get in GW2, to go a long with the actual server lag where you can't use any abilities at all but your 1 key)

https://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos

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  Arataki

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 243

3/05/14 11:15:38 PM#102

A few things people don't realize.

If you want your guild store, you need to hold a keep. If your Emperor wants to stay Emperor, you gotta keep your keeps. If you don't want your PvP buffs to go away, you need to protect your muthafuggin Elder Scrolls, which means holding your bleeding keeps.

Killing players nets more Alliance Points than flipping a keep. 

As far as I know, GW2 had exactly zero game play incentives to hold and defend a keep. ESO is not GW2.

That is all I have to say. Carry on.

  will75

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/06
Posts: 275

3/05/14 11:18:30 PM#103

21 months till Camelot unchained,   speed classes, Good CC like DAOC. And also zergs.. but small groups will be able to take out uncoordinated large groups.

 

Speed classes = Zerg killer itself, because every group needs a speed class.

  NomadMorlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 455

3/05/14 11:19:33 PM#104
I agree.  GW2 made many mistakes which ESO is not duplicating.  It may have some similarities, but it plays very different.
  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

3/05/14 11:24:45 PM#105
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by Velocinox

Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

 

Does that about sum it up?

 

Sell me.

No.

As MikeB said, No.  There are plenty of youtube videos out there that show small groups taking out stragglers.

 

So a smaller zerg?

I'm starting to think the OP doesn't understand the term zerg.

He thinks a group of 4 is a zerg?

/sigh

A Zerg is any amount of players on one. That is the definition - it is about numbers not skill. If there are rewards for better armor that make people 'LEET' then the game will get zergy - that is what happened in Rift.

 

Get used to it. As I said, unless it is defined PvP, it will have zergs - period.

Another that doesn't understand the term or its origins.

/sigh again.

 

The source was starcraft zergling rushes where masses of units overran fewer units. However, the CONCEPT has been around for much longer. It's just the word is more recognizable to gamers than military terminology. It has been expressed in the military world as force concentration. If you read the link in the very first paragraph you see a term I used earlier in the thread force multiplication via the use of geological features and fortifications.

 

Now if you're playing the starcraft series, then you can stick to the strict definition of 'zerg', but since we are obviously not, then it expands to the greater definition that all gamers have come to recognize, that of larger force beats smaller force if all other factors are equal.

 

As to my intent, the post was offered as a question, not a statement of fact. How so many are reacting to a question about a game in a gaming forum like I am hurting their little sister or kicking their dog amazes me. Isn't it possible to discuss a game without becoming emotional and defensive? Did they make the game? Then why are they defending it like it is a family member? (Or would they even defend a family member this strongly...)

 

Now that you're up to speed, I hope you can contribute to the thread productively, rather than attempting to derail it through the unrelated minutia of starcraft trivia. (unless of course that is precisely your intent)

 

That all being said and cleared up, here's a quote from Nietzsche for you:

“The snake which cannot cast its skin has to die. As well the minds which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind.”

 

 

Nice rant I guess.  It doesn't change the FACT that you've been shown several videos that clearly show zerging, while still prevalent in the game, is no the only style of PvP persistent.  Instead of acknowledging what others have shown, you have this rant on my post about the definition of zerg and still seem to be saying that a group of 4 is a zerg when they are either evenly matched in numbers or greatly outnumbered and still prevail.

There are plenty of videos out there that also show people doing solo PvP quite successfully.

With all of that said, I still stand by my statement that you do not understand the true intent of the meaning of zerg.

I also do not appreciate the 'tone' of your post.  Please try and be a bit nicer.  I'm not here trying to insult you. 

edit to remove what could be construed as rude remarks.

 

  jircris

Elite Member

Joined: 2/03/07
Posts: 333

3/05/14 11:30:57 PM#106
Originally posted by Velocinox

Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

 

Does that about sum it up?

 

Sell me.

You sound like you just want a reason to hate the game. I did some PvP and honestly its not bad. though i do feel the lag if a large group passes by, though its a battlefield not a damned boxing ring Your not going 1v1 your going nation vs nation. and in my opinion it can get VERY crazy but also rewarding if you manage to do half good. The fact that your asking this question proves to most of us (those who can read and understand the post and not just what they want to hear) that you have not experienced PVP..you most likely have not even been past level 10 to experience some of the fun things (island was boring as hell)

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  Nemesis7884

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 557

3/05/14 11:33:41 PM#107

with the choke points and the map set up, zerging seems way less of an issue than you think - pvp testers tell me its easy for a coordinated small group to fight a large army if they use smart tactics...there are also some vids about this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95OuSe6S7iA&feature=c4-overview&list=LLdBR99bBV_FGDtaiS83QbpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19m6CnYTfZA&list=UUKGPxoVA-BmzK4phMoK23IA&feature=c4-overview

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

3/06/14 12:00:24 AM#108


Originally posted by botrytis
It is the same as GW2 - don't kind yourself.  GW2 is not zergy (initially it was because that is how people play - but coordinated wins the day every time).  if you are coordinated - small groups can do much damage.

 

I wasn't impressed with ESO combat - no feedback and boring (key spam). If you like it - more power to ya. But, it is not the savior for MMO's that many say it is - it is just another game on rails.


GW2 blows and is a shallow pvp and pve experience IMO. no ESO is not the same, there is more to do in cyrodiil than just zerg (ala GW2).

there is content for smaller groups as well as pve content, which gives it more of an open pvp feel.

the feedback you mention has alrady been addressed with CD as you should already know.

oh and i will take this game "on rails" over a game where i do not feel like i am getting any stronger or look any different after level 10 and quit out of sheer bordem.

:)

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

3/06/14 12:05:44 AM#109


Originally posted by Arataki
A few things people don't realize.

If you want your guild store, you need to hold a keep. If your Emperor wants to stay Emperor, you gotta keep your keeps. If you don't want your PvP buffs to go away, you need to protect your muthafuggin Elder Scrolls, which means holding your bleeding keeps.

Killing players nets more Alliance Points than flipping a keep. 

As far as I know, GW2 had exactly zero game play incentives to hold and defend a keep. ESO is not GW2.

That is all I have to say. Carry on.


good point about the keep flipping, people that dont want to zerg can defend keeps and will need to.

espcially if they are trying to get an emporor crowned.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5203

3/06/14 1:59:29 AM#110

I know.

If we call it "blob" then we don't have to worry about there being zergs.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  rafalex007

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 226

3/06/14 3:37:22 AM#111

@op again

seriously You Just want to believe That the Game Is a ZergFEST soo...

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 826

3/06/14 5:11:45 AM#112

in every game with massive PvP there will be zerg, and this happens in every game, cause there is no value for the life of the character its like the hordes in history battles or the 'valiant' knights, but when their life was something a bit more important you could see organized war fare.

 

the same here, there is no cost for loss so people run around like bulls in amok xD

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1477

3/06/14 6:24:25 AM#113
Originally posted by Velocinox

So a smaller zerg?

At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.

  Velocinox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 673

 
OP  3/06/14 10:32:51 AM#114
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by Velocinox

So a smaller zerg?

At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.

It's been covered.

 

Maybe read the thread?

 

This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


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  Xsorus

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 174

3/06/14 11:08:09 AM#115

What people don't understand is, All Massive PvP Games will have Zergs, DAOC had them, Rift Had them, Warhammer Had them, and GW2 has them, and ESO will have them..along with CU

What matters is how much you're rewarded for zerging in those games.

 

Warhammer and DAOC while they let you zerg, Made you a freakin Target for groups that would side swipe you to try and kill large numbers.

 

DAOC probably did it best out of them all, Because generally Zergs were slow moving beasts..and if they didn't spread fast enough, a single group could destroy them in seconds...Which is how it should be.

 

Rift had massive Zergs, but it was like WAR and DAOC, you could wipe the hell out of a zerg in that game....Hell a Single Dominator or Warcaller (Stormcaller+Warlock combo) could damn near wipe a zerg at one point.

 

Now...Here comes GW2..

 

Which went the absolute wrong way with Zergs, Not only does the AOE cap in that game eliminate the ability to wipe most zergs, It bloody rewards them by not splitting up WXP when killing someone...Throw in crap like the Down System..Their Entire Boon system, stacking to avoid AOE (which is the dumbest thing i've seen in an MMO to date) and you got the cluster fuck that is Zerging in that game.

 

Their rewarding of zerging is what frankly pushed so many people away from GW2...

https://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos

Guild Wars 2 Ranger Video's

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 771

Permafried

3/06/14 11:18:57 AM#116

Some good reads for anyone interested in information versus random ramblings, assumptions, guesses, vitriol and such (not pointing at everyone in the thread of course)

 

AvAvA Q&A: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/12/23/ask-us-anything-cyrodiil

The process behind the design of the Keeps: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/12/20/creating-eso-cyrodiils-keeps

 

Lots of information readily available at the official website.

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes



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  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

3/06/14 11:27:34 AM#117


Originally posted by Xsorus
What people don't understand is, All Massive PvP Games will have Zergs, DAOC had them, Rift Had them, Warhammer Had them, and GW2 has them, and ESO will have them..along with CU

What matters is how much you're rewarded for zerging in those games.

 

Warhammer and DAOC while they let you zerg, Made you a freakin Target for groups that would side swipe you to try and kill large numbers.

 

DAOC probably did it best out of them all, Because generally Zergs were slow moving beasts..and if they didn't spread fast enough, a single group could destroy them in seconds...Which is how it should be.

 

Rift had massive Zergs, but it was like WAR and DAOC, you could wipe the hell out of a zerg in that game....Hell a Single Dominator or Warcaller (Stormcaller+Warlock combo) could damn near wipe a zerg at one point.

 

Now...Here comes GW2..

 

Which went the absolute wrong way with Zergs, Not only does the AOE cap in that game eliminate the ability to wipe most zergs, It bloody rewards them by not splitting up WXP when killing someone...Throw in crap like the Down System..Their Entire Boon system, stacking to avoid AOE (which is the dumbest thing i've seen in an MMO to date) and you got the cluster fuck that is Zerging in that game.

 

Their rewarding of zerging is what frankly pushed so many people away from GW2...


there needs to be other things to do other than zerging, that's the key.

i think ESO has done that. there is more to do than just midlessly zerg from keep to keep like in GW2 and there are mechanics in the game to ensure that.


  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

3/06/14 11:31:33 AM#118


Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Velocinox So a smaller zerg?
At what point does small group combat not become a zerg?  I'm sorry but this thread reeks of biased bone-to-pick bullshit.
It's been covered.

 

Maybe read the thread?

 

This reply reeks of drive-by-reply with only cursory familiarity with the discussion at best. Not unlike the guy that stops by your 20 minute conversation at a party and only hearing 2 minutes of it proceeds to tell you how wrong your discussion was. All the while the folks in the know just stare at him smiling with bemusement at his antics.


there are other things to do in cyrodiil other than zerg, it's a fact. i don't see why this continues to be disscussed? just for the sake of trolling maybe?

  wangkom

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/05
Posts: 122

3/06/14 11:32:29 AM#119
Originally posted by Velocinox

Tower zerg, open field zerg, scouting for their zerg...

 

does that about sum it up?

YES its all a big cluster fu** of people who doesnt know what they are doing, so they all hitting different target...

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

3/06/14 11:48:26 AM#120

several words to lessen the zerg problems that developers dont have the stones to do it

- Friendly fire

- colision detection

- Terrain factors that affect skills and movement

-war machines with heavy aoe dmg

- heavier death penalty

 

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