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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] World of Warcraft: The Impact of WoW’s Instant Boost to Level Cap

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136 posts found
  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 778

3/05/14 2:33:49 PM#101
Originally posted by justinsalesart
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by justinsalesart

It's not worth your time thinking about what other people do with their money. Unless you are trying to take it.

Love the language used in these threads as well. Get a dictionary; you're using words wrong.

You might wan't to take your own advise as it's "you're using words wrongly" not "you're using words wrong". Egg on your face ?

As to the discussion then well , it stinks , not the discussion but the fact they are giving and selling maxed characters ( well level 90 characters ).

The person on the first page that said it won't affect them in any way is wrong , unless he/she solos exclusively.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Actually 'wrong' is being used correctly here. The word 'wrong' is acceptable in informal communication and must follow the verb. If the writer is worried about formality and their target audience then they should use wrongly (which can both precede and follow the verb), but wrong is not incorrect. The language is living and evolving and grammar rules change. There is no "egg on your face" here.

Instant 90s are bad because you say so? How about providing a reason for that? You may not like it, but what does that matter? I don't like raiding either, but that doesn't stop others from doing the deed.

I'm not taking advice from someone using advise as a noun.

Cheers.

I was just trying to make a point about how stupid his/her grammar policing actually is. Yeah again see more proof , obviously that was a typo.

In fact you are both wrong , the correct English sentence is " You're using the words in the wrong way" , but I digress. Still ridiculous that you are both concentrating on grammar and not the actual context of what the users on here are trying to express. Anyway , grammar policing is banned on most forums. It is pointless , unless you can't make head nor  tail of what someone has typed.

Back to the actual topic at hand , the problem with selling and giving away free level 90 characters within an MMO with the cap being 90 , soon to be 100 , is basically that they are going to ruin their community. The segregation between veterans and fresh noob 90's will be horrendous. I see a lot think it's okay , but what was the whole point of someone buying all those expansions and now the company is making them basically obsolete ? That's fine by you is it ? Another thing isn't one of the reasons for playing an MMO to actually level up and enjoy leveling up ( in a leveling game of course ). 

Anyway it will speed up WOW's death , not much content between 90 - 100 , so okay go ahead Blizzard more MMO players for other MMO's in a few months. 

I shall end with a quote from my brother , after I told him of this. He said " It's like telling someone they can run the marathon , but if they pay a few dollars they can start it , a few feet away from the finishing line and that we will make sure you get first place."

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  Naevius

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 319

3/05/14 2:40:02 PM#102

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 6:08:37 PM#103
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 7:02:04 PM#104
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 168

3/05/14 7:15:03 PM#105

I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

 

Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

 

The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 7:30:36 PM#106
Originally posted by Nephelai

I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

 

Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

 

The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

 

You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

 

I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

 

What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

 

ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Magicabbage

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/11
Posts: 95

3/05/14 7:34:50 PM#107

Like someone said already. This doesn't effect anyone in game. I think it's great that they

even offer the feature. I have all the classes. My lowest is a 41 Monk who I plan to use this

feature on. The next lowest is 80 and the rest are 90. I do not, for the sake of time, want to run

the same content for the 10th time again.

 

Blizzard doesn't care about your whining, or threats of quitting. They have more subs than

ALL, yes ALL, triple A MMOs combined. So what if they lose a million subs(which won't

happen) They aren't afraid of any competition, because since launch, there hasn't been any

competition. People often quit due to boredom, only to return months later. This game has it

all and it's easy to achieve gear, levels, achievements, so that makes it fun to some people.

so in conclusion, someone paying to get to 90 is their business and doesn't effect you or me,

at all. Cheaper than paying some random Asian to do it illegally and risk getting hacked. 

Oh and garrisons, alone, are worth the price of admission for the new expack. I can't wait.

 
  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 168

3/05/14 8:03:16 PM#108
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Nephelai

I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

 

Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

 

The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

 

You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

 

I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

 

What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

 

ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

 

 

I agree that the prices involved in WoW are ridiculous - I recently server/faction changed one of my characters for $55 and that's almost the price of a whole game.

 

However, you are mixing up the morality issues of gaming with your financial issues. Personally I believe things that take skill should never be able to be purchased however anything involving TIME should be able to be bypassed by $$$ if the customer chooses. After all, that unemployed guy needs his welfare while he's playing a game and he's only gonna get it if people like me go to work and cant commit the time he can.

 

Spending copious amounts of time in game isn't an achievement and it doesn't take skill to level a character - although I like to.

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 8:13:18 PM#109
Originally posted by Nephelai
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Nephelai

I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.

 

Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.

 

The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.

Then why not just bump every character in existence to lv 90?  If WoW wants to go down that road with a subscription game, then make the playing field equal.

 

You get 1 character to 90 with buying the expansion.  But if leveling is so dull and mundane (because of Blizzard's actions over the past 5 years), make it equal for everyone and just bump characters to 90, for free.

 

I think Blizzard made the leveling dull and mundane in their game.  It's not inherent to all MMORPG's.  Charging $$ in WoW will create an imbalance of those who work for what they have vs. those who buy their way in.

 

What Blizzard is doing is adding freemium mechanics to a P2P game.  It's a very shady practice for a rather big name in MMO's.  Which I mentioned earlier, that I expect better from Blizzard.

 

ps - I'm against sanctioned leveling "buffs", but seeing as how I can't soften Blizzard's crash here, I can at least offer a parachute (to give a more gentle landing).

 

 

I agree that the prices involved in WoW are ridiculous - I recently server/faction changed one of my characters for $55 and that's almost the price of a whole game.

 

However, you are mixing up the morality issues of gaming with your financial issues. Personally I believe things that take skill should never be able to be purchased however anything involving TIME should be able to be bypassed by $$$ if the customer chooses. After all, that unemployed guy needs his welfare while he's playing a game and he's only gonna get it if people like me go to work and cant commit the time he can.

 

Spending copious amounts of time in game isn't an achievement and it doesn't take skill to level a character - although I like to.

 

That is the foundation of RPG's though.

 

RPG's were never designed to become casual with purchased skill ups.

 

WoW should not be considered a RPG, if they let people pay to skip RPG content.

 

If any DnD dungeon master wanted to kill their sessions, all they would need to do it allow group members to buy levels.  The option alone kills the spirit.  Some justify it saying I couldn't make it the past 2 weeks so I'm catching up, while the others say NO!

 

Well Blizzard is in command of their own game, and while some partake on Blizzard's offerings, I think it's the core audience that will suffer.  The core audience is the component any company should desire to keep.

 

[then again Blizzard dumbed the game down in the past, so whats another hit]

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 9:15:51 PM#110
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 9:29:48 PM#111
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  mbd1968

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/07
Posts: 2048

3/05/14 9:34:11 PM#112

This is 100% the fault of the players who demand fast leveling or say 'the game starts at level cap'. Gaming companies switched focus of games and it became less about the journey and more about what you do when you get there.

I have no sympathy, you get what you ask for.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 9:45:23 PM#113
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 9:50:25 PM#114
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 9:51:48 PM#115
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 10:04:18 PM#116
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

 

Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

 

< going in circles here >

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 10:10:23 PM#117
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

 

Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

 

< going in circles here >

 

I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. Scroll up, I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

No wonder you think this is going in circles.....What gives?

Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/05/14 10:24:56 PM#118
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

 

Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

 

< going in circles here >

 

I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

What gives?

Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

OK, and Blizzard's decisions are suspect.  I'll highlight in blue everything I think is wrong.

 

You said that WoW is all about end-game.  Now you say it's not just about endgame, which contradicts earlier posts.  Millions enjoy end-game .. but what about the millions who like the other parts of the game?  They get strung out to wither away, while people with more money (yes even in a P2P game), say "Can I has your stuff"?  Many do end-game, many don't .. that's an accurate statement.

 

Why allow people to purchase levels?  It's crappy.  It degrades everything people worked for.  It is after all, just a game.  But not one I want to participate in.  I can't describe it, but any game where people buy advancement or power is off my radar.   I was interested in WoW's latest XPac, but now it's 'iffy'.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1718

3/05/14 10:41:54 PM#119
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Naevius

In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.

Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.

Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.

EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.

It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.

Disagree.  I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game.  Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me.  It was a good chance to meet new people.  I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW.  The quests are fun.

 

Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards.  Group quests were removed, for instance.

 

So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience.  But it wasn't always that way.  So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.

 

Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE.  So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable.  SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright.  It just leaves a WTF feeling.  It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them?  Oh.....Thanks for the info   =D

To you...not to the millions of players who focus on endgame, and have been doing so for 10 years, rather than the leveling experiance.

Oh, millions on end-game?  Provide stats please.

 

Last I saw from an article a couple years ago, only a small portion actually did end-game content regularly.  Many try, and many remain casuals.  Perhaps queued-for PUG raids solved this?  That's likely what you consider end-game .. my guess .. queue for raid, Volla! done, <--- is now end-game player!

 

If you give players an option to make everything easy, they will opt for that.  It's not their fault, it's the designers fault.

 

WoW early on actually made players work for what they had.  If you inspected someone with all epics, you knew they earned each piece.

 

Millions still subscribe, yes.  I won't be apart of the next expansion since Blizzard now sells levels.

Endgame = Raids (all diffaculties), Heroic Dungeons, challenge mode dungeons, Battlegrounds, Ranked Arenas, etc.....

You want proof? Wow progress (which isnt anywhere close to tracking all wow players) has over 2 million (i stopped counting the pages at 2 million...you can do the rest) unique accounts tracked as having progressed through any point of the normal or heroic MoP raid tiers alone....not counting LFR (which is much higher)

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/

Heroic Dungeons are not tracked unfortunatly....but no serious person would claim that they are not done by millions of players....

The ranked PVP leaderboards are also viewable on wows website (as are challenge mode ranks)....let alone the many more who participate in unranked PVP BGs...

I think its quite telling that you not only have to quote a report from 5 years ago stating only a small % of WoW players completed the heroic raids (which is still true today, and has no bearing on overall endgame participation in general, which is what I said), to then crapping on LFR, all while ignoring all the other wealth of endgame content the game has.

I totally get and respect that you enjoyed the leveling experiance in WoW over any of its endgame...but do not respond to my statement that endgame is WoW's focus for millions of its players as if I just said the world was flat....

LFR are included in your stats?

No, just go to the link, its normal and heroic only....i mean, i specified that in my post, not sure why you would ask again.....again, thats over 2 million who have done normal or heoric MoP raids...the LFR number is much much higher......and stop ignoring that WoW's endgame is not just raiding....

So, if WoW is just about raiding, why not bump every toon to 90.  Why charge at all, if the leveling these days is so abysmal?

 

Returning players are Blizzards target audience, right?  (nearly) Everyone who is going to play WoW has already played it, at some point.

 

< going in circles here >

 

I literally said for 2 posts in a row now that WoW's endgame is not just raiding, and listed all of the other endgame content that is done by millions of other players. I'll highlight each time in pink for you...

What gives?

Anyways, im going to bed...toodles...

OK, and Blizzard's decisions are suspect.  I'll highlight in blue everything I think is wrong.

 

You said that WoW is all about end-game.  Now you say it's not just about endgame, which contradicts earlier posts.  Millions enjoy end-game .. but what about the millions who like the other parts of the game?  They get strung out to wither away, while people with more money (yes even in a P2P game), say "Can I has your stuff"?  Many do end-game, many don't .. that's an accurate statement.

 

Why allow people to purchase levels?  It's crappy.  It degrades everything people worked for.  It is after all, just a game.  But not one I want to participate in.  I can't describe it, but any game where people buy advancement or power is off my radar.   I was interested in WoW's latest XPac, but now it's 'iffy'.

If you can quote me where I said WoW was not about endgame, I will paypal you $100000

I never said WoW wasn't about endgame...as a matter of fact that was my initial point and what I have been trying to drive home all along, WoW is almost 100% about endgame...i never once contradicted myself......what I DID say though, was that  it was not just about raiding....i figured out your problem and see why you keep going in circles now....you use the term endgame and raiding interchangeably in your mind, which is wrong. Endgame content (raids, heroic dungeons, challenge modes, battleground pvp, ranked arenas etc) are all done by vastly more than those who just play wow for the leveling experiance. There is no way in hell you can tell me that there is a significant amount of max level players large enough where this would even matter who don't do any endgame (again, endgame is not just raiding).

You know what would help you understand this exchange a little more clearly? Stop using the words endgame and raiding synonymously, and that goes for all MMOs in general.

Raiding is a part of endgame, not the totality of it. I'm nowhere near arguing symantics here...its like saying wheel and car are the same thing.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

3/05/14 10:49:06 PM#120
They should make everyone who buys a lvl 90 wear a "*" next to their name. I mean why should they care if someone else knows they bought their way to 90? At least then I could mentally prepare myself to play with those who may lack some experience. Either way it goes I'm still buying the next expansion.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

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