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General Discussion  » The Worst Part About TESO: Phasing

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79 posts found
  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 2:14:24 PM#41
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I think, given the massive scale failure of singleplayer centric MMOs that treat you like the chosen one, we've made up our mind.

You are going to have to define what you mean by "failure" in order for this statement to make any sense, because the conventional definition of "fails to turn a profit" certainly doesn't apply.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Riannes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 65

3/03/14 2:29:35 PM#42

This is ESO biggest problem atleast for me.

 

I started beta session with 4 of my friends. we expected a great adventure together as soon as Coldharbour was done. within 5 mins after Coldharbour we could not do quests together. each of us had to scatter and went separate ways. it was terrible.

 

this completely destroy any chance of group content outside dungeons & may be ava. i hope this get fixed soon (before release). i have purchased the game but if nothing change i will play it as a single player game (and then decide if ava has enough substance to warrant a sub).

 

 

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 2:51:19 PM#43
Originally posted by Riannes

This is ESO biggest problem atleast for me.

 I started beta session with 4 of my friends. we expected a great adventure together as soon as Coldharbour was done. within 5 mins after Coldharbour we could not do quests together. each of us had to scatter and went separate ways. it was terrible.

 this completely destroy any chance of group content outside dungeons & may be ava. i hope this get fixed soon (before release). i have purchased the game but if nothing change i will play it as a single player game (and then decide if ava has enough substance to warrant a sub). 

So, essentially your complaint is that content that wasn't intended for groups is hard and/or impossible to do with groups?  How is this any different than complaining that content that is intended for groups is hard and/or impossible to solo?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  kinart

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/12
Posts: 105

3/03/14 2:54:55 PM#44
Originally posted by Riannes

This is ESO biggest problem atleast for me.

 

I started beta session with 4 of my friends. we expected a great adventure together as soon as Coldharbour was done. within 5 mins after Coldharbour we could not do quests together. each of us had to scatter and went separate ways. it was terrible.

 

this completely destroy any chance of group content outside dungeons & may be ava. i hope this get fixed soon (before release). i have purchased the game but if nothing change i will play it as a single player game (and then decide if ava has enough substance to warrant a sub).

 

 

Riannes, i believe it's AvA that is getting the worst hit from this phasing technology. Cause you will be playing each time against different, random players.

  Riannes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 65

3/03/14 2:55:29 PM#45
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Riannes

This is ESO biggest problem atleast for me.

 I started beta session with 4 of my friends. we expected a great adventure together as soon as Coldharbour was done. within 5 mins after Coldharbour we could not do quests together. each of us had to scatter and went separate ways. it was terrible.

 this completely destroy any chance of group content outside dungeons & may be ava. i hope this get fixed soon (before release). i have purchased the game but if nothing change i will play it as a single player game (and then decide if ava has enough substance to warrant a sub). 

So, essentially your complaint is that content that wasn't intended for groups is hard and/or impossible to do with groups?  How is this any different than complaining that content that is intended for groups is hard and/or impossible to solo?

 

do you even know what we are discussing about???

its nothing to do with difficulty. Phasing makes us unable to see friends so we cannot quest with them.

 

  Dilweed

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/04
Posts: 224

3/03/14 2:59:39 PM#46

Tip: start with quests you both haven't done yet.

Problem solved.

Don't try doing quests when you are at different stages, why do you think this would work? It doesn't make any sense.

You want impact on the world and at the same time, you wanna see it when another player starts the quest you just did.

There is no correct way....

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 3:02:31 PM#47
Originally posted by Riannes

do you even know what we are discussing about???

its nothing to do with difficulty. Phasing makes us unable to see friends so we cannot quest with them. 

I understand exactly what you are saying.  I am talking about the effect, not the cause.  The effect of the phasing is that you actually have to solo much of the content that was intended to be soloed, rather than grouping for it.  What I am asking is how complaining that a game is setup in a way that forces you to solo content that is designed to be soloed is any different than complaining about a game being setup in a way that forces you to group for content that is designed for groups.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

 
OP  3/03/14 3:05:58 PM#48
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I think, given the massive scale failure of singleplayer centric MMOs that treat you like the chosen one, we've made up our mind.

You are going to have to define what you mean by "failure" in order for this statement to make any sense, because the conventional definition of "fails to turn a profit" certainly doesn't apply.

Constantly declining subscription numbers after the first month of launch is generally a good indicator. Server merges, layoffs, the works.

Pre WoW MMOs didn't peak until about 2-3 years into development, same for Eve, and other games designed to retain people long term.

 

Games like SWTOR, that play like a singleplayer game with optional COOP, had the biggest loss of numbers in record time.

 

 

TO the apologists, are you honestly saying that it is a good sound bit of game design to force you to solo IN A MULTIPLAYER GAME? Not to mention that it isn't consistent at all, so pretending it was intended to be that way is a farce.

  Riannes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 65

3/03/14 3:18:44 PM#49
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Riannes

do you even know what we are discussing about???

its nothing to do with difficulty. Phasing makes us unable to see friends so we cannot quest with them. 

I understand exactly what you are saying.  I am talking about the effect, not the cause.  The effect of the phasing is that you actually have to solo much of the content that was intended to be soloed, rather than grouping for it.  What I am asking is how complaining that a game is setup in a way that forces you to solo content that is designed to be soloed is any different than complaining about a game being setup in a way that forces you to group for content that is designed for groups.

 

by your so called logic anything outside dungeons are designed to be solo contents?

and by solo contents i do quest A in area X and my friend does B in area X why cant i see my friend? its not like he/she is helping with my solo content quest A.

and then if i do quest A and my friend decide to do quest A too. we can then see each other and quest A become multi player content???

its really simple. i want to lvl with friends. but i cannot see my friends. so as mentioned, i will play it as a single player game. except for rare occasions one or two of my friends maybe on the same quest.

i believe in most mmo we are able to lvl with friends. some games even have content scaling with number of participating players. i love es serie & i want eso to be successful so i hope there will be some improvements on this. but seriously your counter argument does not make any sense.

 

 

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 3:27:05 PM#50
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Constantly declining subscription numbers after the first month of launch is generally a good indicator. Server merges, layoffs, the works.

Pre WoW MMOs didn't peak until about 2-3 years into development, same for Eve, and other games designed to retain people long term. 

Games like SWTOR, that play like a singleplayer game with optional COOP, had the biggest loss of numbers in record time. 

TO the apologists, are you honestly saying that it is a good sound bit of game design to force you to solo IN A MULTIPLAYER GAME? Not to mention that it isn't consistent at all, so pretending it was intended to be that way is a farce.

Last point first; multiplayer doesn't mean you have to engage in cooperative play with others, it just means that there are others around.  I am just pointing out the fundamental hypocrisy of many proponents of grouping.  They argue that they should be able to group for every single piece of content in the game, but get mad when people who prefer solo play want to be able to solo every piece of content in a game.  Grouping is not a superior playstyle to soloing.  Soloing is not a superior playstyle to grouping.  They are simply different.  If someone argues that some content should be exclusive to a particular playstyle, they should also support it when other content is exclusive to other playstyles.  It's simply bad form to want a particular playstyle to receive preferential treatment just because it is the one you prefer.

As for TOR, how many players it lost really isn't relevant in the context of how much money it is making.  It's still one of the most successful MMOs ever released, possibly the second most successful western MMO currently on the market.  A game can afford to lose more players than other games when it starts out with more, TOR on it's worst day had more subscribers than many MMOs have had on their best day, retention rate is not the only important statistic.

And part of the reason it took so long for pre-WoW MMORPGs to peak is because there was less competition.  Repeating content you have already experienced is less grating when there aren't a dozen other games out there with content you haven't seen yet.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1580

3/03/14 3:33:52 PM#51
Originally posted by Talemire
Even if you are right, if enough players complain about it, it's gonna be addressed. I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much at this point until much closer to the release date. If the problem isn't fixed by release, then yeah, it'll suck for a lot of people, but I don't doubt something of that magnitude will go far under the radar. I say give it more time.

People have been complaining since early beta it's not going to change anytime soon. Phasing is an major part of the megaserver system.

Lol, much closer than release date! 

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  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 3:34:25 PM#52
Originally posted by Riannes

by your so called logic anything outside dungeons are designed to be solo contents?

and by solo contents i do quest A in area X and my friend does B in area X why cant i see my friend? its not like he/she is helping with my solo content quest A.

and then if i do quest A and my friend decide to do quest A too. we can then see each other and quest A become multi player content???

its really simple. i want to lvl with friends. but i cannot see my friends. so as mentioned, i will play it as a single player game. except for rare occasions one or two of my friends maybe on the same quest.

i believe in most mmo we are able to lvl with friends. some games even have content scaling with number of participating players. i love es serie & i want eso to be successful so i hope there will be some improvements on this. but seriously your counter argument does not make any sense. 

I don't know how much attention you paid to the narrative in ESO, but the PvE side of it is fundamentally single player.  You are *the* chosen one who helped the Prophet escape Coldharbour.  It frankly doesn't make any sense for you to be grouped with other players while doing most quest content.  ESO is essentially two different games; a single player, narratively driven Elder Scrolls game in the PvE areas, and DAOC 2 with an Elder Scrolls theme in the PvP area.

There are dungeons for groups, but honestly they feel a little tacked on, they have nothing to do with the PvP side of the game and feel inconsistent with the rest of the PvE side where you are the One True Hero.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Coldren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 427

3/03/14 3:37:01 PM#53
Originally posted by Dilweed

Tip: start with quests you both haven't done yet.

Problem solved.

Don't try doing quests when you are at different stages, why do you think this would work? It doesn't make any sense.

You want impact on the world and at the same time, you wanna see it when another player starts the quest you just did.

There is no correct way....

Except it doesn't work..

My wife and I started at the same time, were on the same stages, made the same choices.. We were still having to constantly fight the phasing mechanism.

If you are grouped, with a friend AND a guildie, there is absolutely no reason you should ever be out of phase. The megaserver principal only works if you can actually get people who want to play together in the same phase.

Right now, it simply doesn't. Don't even get me started on instance dungeons.. Apparently, if I haven't run it before, I'll be out of phase with those who have because of the quests.. So I need to find first-timers every time I want to run a dungeon? Bleh.

Would have been much, much, MUCH simpler if they had used a similiar methodology for the PvE side of things as they had for the AvA - Select one, if your friends play on another, let people transfer. Keep the AvA just as is, so no matter what PvE servers you are on, you can join any AvA campagin.

I understand there is some phasing for the purposes of STORY, fine. But they need some sort of indicator to tell me when we are not SUPPOSED to be in phase, so we don't spend time logging in and out, grouping and ungrouping, travelling to player, etc., thinking we're bugged.

In my opinion, their phasing implementation is the only thing I do not like about ESO thus far. The principal is fine, but the execution has been flawed.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

3/03/14 3:54:07 PM#54

Agreed 100%.

 

Saw this post 3 betas ago on the beta forums, I think it says it pretty well:

 

I have spent a good 12 hours before I had to go to sleep questing while grouping from Bleak Rock to Stonefalls, slogging through the most ridiculously convoluted and frustrating phasing and questing systems I have ever experienced.

It's been a lot of fun overall, but the frustration with these systems is already mounting within the first 7 levels.  So I will keep this as brief as I can:

PROBLEM 1: Phasing overrides groups and takes priority.  I will lose track of my group-members if they are on slightly different quest as me

SOLUTION:  Make grouping override phasing.  I should never lose sight of my group-members, even if what they are doing I can't see or cross a phase-line I haven't yet.  This already happens a bit but if they cross a phase-line, or are doing a quest that I have already done and is phased out for me, let me at least SEE them.  

I really dislike HUD elements so I tend to turn off things like group member indicators: the phasing made this desire IMPOSSIBLE to deal with so I am choosing between a lesser of two evils.  I should never have to do that mechanically, (although lesser of two evils in questing is great!).

PROBLEM 2: Main Quest instanced scenarios override grouping.

SOLUTION: I get why you guys are doing this.  The philosphy is that the player should feel special and all the other players should feel like red-shirt NPCs when it comes to the main story, a la a single-player TES game where you are "the one."  But this is unfortunately, not a good approach, it creates more frustrating problems than it does create immersion.  

What I say is, simply drop that philosophy when it comes to quests.  We KNOW that we are doing the same thing at the same time in parallel planes and we KNOW that both of us are soul-shriven and we have no souls and we have the same MQ goals.  If you are grouped with people when doing one of these missions, simply treat it like a party: let us do the quests together.  Just go there, it will bother zero people and it will take out a ton of frustration from this.  

I am a heavy RPer, lore-nerd extraordinaire and immersion junkie and this would not bother me at all, in fact it would help me enjoy the game more.  To a person playing by themselves it will feel individual but I like to play MMOs with my friends, please never restrict me from doing ANYTHING with my friends if I want that experience.

PROBLEM 3:Open-world Quests do not always take groups into consideration when they should.

EXAMPLE: The quest when leaving Bleak Rock, when you run through that Barrow right next to the town and out to the ship, was incredibly frustrating playing with another player.  He would activate something and I would have to do it too.  This makes no sense.  If one of my group members talks to an NPC and activates a part of a quest, then it should activate for me too.  This prevents waiting on friends to finish quests which should never really happen if grouped.

There are quests with minor objectives that are group-linked but they are few and far-between.  All quests should be group-linked.  Keep in mind it is MY choice that I quest while grouped, and mine alone (well, my group-member also has the choice).  So you as designers do not need to compensate for that.  If I choose to group up with someone else and do the a quest, please let me do that.

This includes the quest-givers who you follow.  Make them one per group, not one per player.  The other players in the group can always catch up with the one who initiated but it is completely immersion-breaking the way it currently works.

Treat the group like one single entity in this way.  Even with gather quests.  The quest-giver should treat you as one unit, working together.

IN CLOSING: As an avid PvEer (also love PvP) and quester, I really think this is the most glaring issue I have seen thus far.  It is potentially game-breaking and ridiculously frustrating and I do not see how fixing it would cause any problems for any other people with a different play-style.  If someone wants to treat the game like a single-player experience then so be it, but then they should not join a group.  That seems logical to me and the game does not need to hold anyone's hand in that regard.

Again, sorry for sounding so critical, but this game means everything to me.  I have always wanted a TES MMO and am so grateful to have been invited to beta.  I hope you find my feedback to be well-intentioned and realize that I just want to see this game become what is truly should be (and is so close to becoming): the greatest MMORPG ever created.  Keep up the amazing work!

  Coldren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 427

3/03/14 3:59:49 PM#55
Originally posted by Entinerint

Agreed 100%.

 

Saw this post 3 betas ago on the beta forums, I think it says it pretty well:

 

I have spent a good 12 hours before I had to go to sleep questing while grouping from Bleak Rock to Stonefalls, slogging through the most ridiculously convoluted and frustrating phasing and questing systems I have ever experienced.

It's been a lot of fun overall, but the frustration with these systems is already mounting within the first 7 levels.  So I will keep this as brief as I can:

PROBLEM 1: Phasing overrides groups and takes priority.  I will lose track of my group-members if they are on slightly different quest as me

SOLUTION:  Make grouping override phasing.  I should never lose sight of my group-members, even if what they are doing I can't see or cross a phase-line I haven't yet.  This already happens a bit but if they cross a phase-line, or are doing a quest that I have already done and is phased out for me, let me at least SEE them.  

I really dislike HUD elements so I tend to turn off things like group member indicators: the phasing made this desire IMPOSSIBLE to deal with so I am choosing between a lesser of two evils.  I should never have to do that mechanically, (although lesser of two evils in questing is great!).

PROBLEM 2: Main Quest instanced scenarios override grouping.

SOLUTION: I get why you guys are doing this.  The philosphy is that the player should feel special and all the other players should feel like red-shirt NPCs when it comes to the main story, a la a single-player TES game where you are "the one."  But this is unfortunately, not a good approach, it creates more frustrating problems than it does create immersion.  

What I say is, simply drop that philosophy when it comes to quests.  We KNOW that we are doing the same thing at the same time in parallel planes and we KNOW that both of us are soul-shriven and we have no souls and we have the same MQ goals.  If you are grouped with people when doing one of these missions, simply treat it like a party: let us do the quests together.  Just go there, it will bother zero people and it will take out a ton of frustration from this.  

I am a heavy RPer, lore-nerd extraordinaire and immersion junkie and this would not bother me at all, in fact it would help me enjoy the game more.  To a person playing by themselves it will feel individual but I like to play MMOs with my friends, please never restrict me from doing ANYTHING with my friends if I want that experience.

PROBLEM 3:Open-world Quests do not always take groups into consideration when they should.

EXAMPLE: The quest when leaving Bleak Rock, when you run through that Barrow right next to the town and out to the ship, was incredibly frustrating playing with another player.  He would activate something and I would have to do it too.  This makes no sense.  If one of my group members talks to an NPC and activates a part of a quest, then it should activate for me too.  This prevents waiting on friends to finish quests which should never really happen if grouped.

There are quests with minor objectives that are group-linked but they are few and far-between.  All quests should be group-linked.  Keep in mind it is MY choice that I quest while grouped, and mine alone (well, my group-member also has the choice).  So you as designers do not need to compensate for that.  If I choose to group up with someone else and do the a quest, please let me do that.

This includes the quest-givers who you follow.  Make them one per group, not one per player.  The other players in the group can always catch up with the one who initiated but it is completely immersion-breaking the way it currently works.

Treat the group like one single entity in this way.  Even with gather quests.  The quest-giver should treat you as one unit, working together.

IN CLOSING: As an avid PvEer (also love PvP) and quester, I really think this is the most glaring issue I have seen thus far.  It is potentially game-breaking and ridiculously frustrating and I do not see how fixing it would cause any problems for any other people with a different play-style.  If someone wants to treat the game like a single-player experience then so be it, but then they should not join a group.  That seems logical to me and the game does not need to hold anyone's hand in that regard.

Again, sorry for sounding so critical, but this game means everything to me.  I have always wanted a TES MMO and am so grateful to have been invited to beta.  I hope you find my feedback to be well-intentioned and realize that I just want to see this game become what is truly should be (and is so close to becoming): the greatest MMORPG ever created.  Keep up the amazing work!

This was an excellent post.

I tried to post something similiar, and since there was no feedback or suggestions sections on the forums, it was promptly removed.

Hope they are at least getting the message.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3170

3/03/14 4:12:13 PM#56

I would be amazed if ZOS changed any of the phasing mechanics before launch. The best you can hope for is that they fix some of the bugs that apparently occur even when 2 grouped players are at similar points in a quest.

 

As for overriding phasing of the main story while grouped, forget it. They are not going to redesign their entire game flow at this point (or most likely ever).

 

I'm sure the closed beta testers must have raised concerns about the impact of phasing on group play. ZOS have obviously decided to ignore those objections, for better or for worse...

  kanechart

Tipster

Joined: 6/07/03
Posts: 603

3/03/14 4:16:18 PM#57

I love it how so many people define a MMORPG Based on other MMORPG's. Phasing is fine in fact really good. The game would be more of a stale feel without it. I want less ever other MMORPG and more of this. I bet most people who hate the phasing are also the people who don't read every quest and book in the game. Their target audience is not you its me! 

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  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1058

3/03/14 4:23:05 PM#58
well, if ZOS is so anxious to make each player feel "the One", then why not simply make this a SPG till the solo quest line is completed and THEN open it up to multiplayer...

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  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 8:15:22 PM#59
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

 Your logic is so backwards it hurts. We're not discussing whether or not soloing or grouping is better. In an organic real world sense, with real world logic, grouping to take on solo content isn't something that needs to be artificially limited. It's so simple I almost can't figure out how to explain it to you. A game that is supposed to simulate a virtual world does NOT need to put rules in place to STOP people from grouping. Grouping is an organic and desired outcome. YOu play a multiplayer game to be able to interact with other people. If a game forces you to play singleplayer, that's just silly. Now if a game does the opposite, has big imposing challenges that encourages you to group, that ALSO makes sense because that is ALSO how the real world works. There are big challenges that one person cannot face, so they need others to help them. THIS GAME creates weird splinter realities that just make it hard to PLAY A MULTIPLAYER GAME WITH FRIENDS. It is BACKWARDS design and very obviously not intended, or it would be 100% clear and not so sporadic and glitchy. 

 You mean, not a lot? If it was making a ton of money and had a ton of players they wouldn't have done 3 server merges and fired 80% of the game staff, nor would EA have had a huge stock drop that year. It didn't start getting into the black until they were running a skeleton crew of devs who are so understaffed they can't even add a single new class to the game because its too technically challenging.   Are you high? In what universe does having your business implode = success? Meanwhile, Eve is STILL growing. THAT'S a success, and it has the second most number of subs in the MMO market.  It didn't start with many more, and it had the biggest MMO budget in the history of the genre. Do you not understand how business works? Profits? Nothing?

There wasn't. There was arguably more competition because there were about 3-4 AAA releases every year, and a much smaller user base. Now we have about 2 AAA MMOs a year.  

A game that was trying to be an "organic real world" wouldn't have static content.  When having an "organic" or "real" world is ruled out by the fundamental design elements of the game, it ceases to be a relevant argument, and the developers can focus just on what makes sense for the game as a game, rather than as a world simulation.  When you have multiple playstyles that your game is trying to cater to, it makes sense to provide exclusive content for each of those playstyles.  And, if a given piece of content is designed with a particular playstyle in mind, it makes perfect sense to require you to play it in the manner intended.  Players shouldn't be able to circumvent the intended difficulty of solo content by having groups carry them any more than they should be able finish group content by themselves.

And did we step into a time warp?  Is there some reason you are talking about 2012 TOR instead of 2014 TOR?  Any product that is profitable is successful.  TOR made more money on it's cash shop alone in 2013 than any game other than WoW pulls in from their subscriptions, and it still had roughly half a million subscribers.  At EvE's last reported numbers, it's sub numbers had finally grown, after several years, to reach what TOR's sub numbers have stabilized at after dropping.  Do you not understand how business works?  Games pulling in more than 200 million a year in revenue are generally considered successes.  TOR and Eve, at the last reported numbers for each, had roughly the same number of subscribers, and once you add in cash shop revenue, TOR is making a lot more money year to year.

And 3-4 AAA releases a year, seriously?  Someone could make a very believable argument that prior to WoW, there had never been a AAA MMO, and that that was a major one of the reasons for WoW's success, it was like the Yankees competing in a little league tournament.  The only game that released in the same window that even eventually became halfway decent was EQ2, and it started out in pretty bad shape.

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Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Riannes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 65

3/03/14 9:41:29 PM#60
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Riannes

by your so called logic anything outside dungeons are designed to be solo contents?

and by solo contents i do quest A in area X and my friend does B in area X why cant i see my friend? its not like he/she is helping with my solo content quest A.

and then if i do quest A and my friend decide to do quest A too. we can then see each other and quest A become multi player content???

its really simple. i want to lvl with friends. but i cannot see my friends. so as mentioned, i will play it as a single player game. except for rare occasions one or two of my friends maybe on the same quest.

i believe in most mmo we are able to lvl with friends. some games even have content scaling with number of participating players. i love es serie & i want eso to be successful so i hope there will be some improvements on this. but seriously your counter argument does not make any sense. 

I don't know how much attention you paid to the narrative in ESO, but the PvE side of it is fundamentally single player.  You are *the* chosen one who helped the Prophet escape Coldharbour.  It frankly doesn't make any sense for you to be grouped with other players while doing most quest content.  ESO is essentially two different games; a single player, narratively driven Elder Scrolls game in the PvE areas, and DAOC 2 with an Elder Scrolls theme in the PvP area.

There are dungeons for groups, but honestly they feel a little tacked on, they have nothing to do with the PvP side of the game and feel inconsistent with the rest of the PvE side where you are the One True Hero.

 

ok it must be my mistake wanting to play this game with friends. 

thanks for your insight.

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