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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » No Underwater Swimming Or Combat? Ya...Definitely Not Buying This

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328 posts found
  seacow1g

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  3/03/14 11:07:37 AM#81
Originally posted by time007

This is a joke post.  Please people stop posting and replying.  OMG don't feed this guys joke.  He's completely jerking everyone's chain. hahahah. 

 

I can't believe you guys think that the OP is serious. hahaha.  Wow, people will believe anything they read.  He's clearly kidding and taking the joke as far as people will allow him to. 

I assure you I'm quite serious

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

3/03/14 11:14:52 AM#82

I agree though.  In the year 2014, if you are releasing an MMORPG where all you do in water is swim on the surface, then you should consider closing your game company down, and moving on.  Seriously.  I mean, you look at a game like ESO, and it's missing the mark in so many ways, that you would at least expect the game world to be a rich, beautiful and interactive, including swimming under water. To each their own, but this is just another indication of how many corners were cut in the name of "story driven gameplay".  Exactly the same corners cut in SWTOR.

I also loved how they increased loot by putting carbon copy containers (crates, barrels, bottles, etc) all over the maps, because they didn't bother to do anything to make the game world itself alive with possibility.  They phoned this one in, guys.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Uzik

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 284

3/03/14 11:20:34 AM#83
This was a joke, right?

(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

3/03/14 11:20:40 AM#84
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by time007

This is a joke post.  Please people stop posting and replying.  OMG don't feed this guys joke.  He's completely jerking everyone's chain. hahahah. 

 

I can't believe you guys think that the OP is serious. hahaha.  Wow, people will believe anything they read.  He's clearly kidding and taking the joke as far as people will allow him to. 

I assure you I'm quite serious

Then ESO just isn't the game for you.

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  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 964

3/03/14 11:21:01 AM#85
The real joke here is that they didn't put in a basic feature like swimming under water and people are praising them for it.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

3/03/14 11:24:18 AM#86
Originally posted by seacow1g

It's a matter of principle. I'm voting with my wallet. I may not care about making much use of diving but  them deciding that it's ok to allow less interaction in our virtual worlds is not something I want to support. It's disappointing to see how the voices of real MMORPG players have been drowned out in this sea of nouveau MMO recruits who don't really understand or care about the principles that brought this genre to life. And no I'm not being a conservative or with rose-tinted glasses. Unlike all the other arguments regarding old vs new, I can see merit in all kinds of perspectives, but when it comes to interacting with the world you can't convince me that less is better. An MMORPG is a virtual world for me; not being able to run, jump, sit, swim, dive, dance, walk, smile, laugh, wave, sleep etc. is not something I can settle on. Some interactions restrict gameplay and those I can accept being left out, but interactions that actually ENHANCE gameplay potential and whose absence actually cripples the potential of the game? I can't support it.

 

Also from reading some of these posts it occurred to me that maybe the point of contention is actually a philosophical one about what an MMORPG is to me or you. For me it's a virtual world. I play MMORPG's for a breadth of experience and group play outside the scope of single player games. For me its that wide scope that justifies the demand for a subscription (since the game can essentially serve to replace all other games while I'm playing it). Without that wide scope I can't even see how the game can be worth a subscription (maybe that's why subscription MMO's are on the decline). If single player or local multiplayer games are offering me more breadth of play than the genre that DEFINED for me what I consider to be wide scope of gameplay then I'll just support those games instead. If you see the MMORPG genre as something less grand and don't care much about it realizing its potential then of course you wouldn't agree with me.

Well said, and completely agree with you.  I expect a virtual world as well, but instead these games are devolving into ever-simpler Farmville like experiences with no scope or depth. Just follow from quest to quest until it's time to re-roll.  Then ask me for a sub fee?  Get real.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2382

3/03/14 11:32:36 AM#87

I think I can explain what the OP is trying to get at.

 

I'll compare their concern to one of mine.  I would love to be able to sit down in a chair that is right in front of me.  Why can't I sit down?  It's in the other Elder Scrolls games.  It can't be very hard to design, right?  Will I spend a lot of time sitting down, doing nothing?  Probably not, but that's not really the point.  The point is, I value immersion in my games, and not being able to sit down on a chair is immersion breaking.  So, I believe it is similar to being able to swim, but not being able to swim underwater.  Keep in mind, underwater swimming is in other Elder Scrolls games.  And while it doesn't have to be a major part of the game, the fact that it wasn't designed this way is quite lame.  Chances are, at this stage in development, it will never be implemented.

 

I'd also like to point out, while I understand what the OP is saying(I think), It wouldn't prevent me from buying the game.  

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/03/14 11:34:21 AM#88
This game didn't tell me that i am a unique and special snow flake, so i am not buying.
  seacow1g

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  3/03/14 11:39:22 AM#89
Originally posted by DAS1337

I think I can explain what the OP is trying to get at.

 

I'll compare their concern to one of mine.  I would love to be able to sit down in a chair that is right in front of me.  Why can't I sit down?  It's the other Elder Scrolls games.  It can't be very hard to design, right?  Will I spend a lot of time sitting down, doing nothing?  Probably not, but that's not really the point.  The point is, I value immersion in my games, and not being able to sit down on a chair is immersion breaking.  So, I believe it is similar to being able to swim, but not being able to swim underwater.  Keep in mind, underwater swimming is in other Elder Scrolls games.  And while it doesn't have to be a major part of the game, the fact that it wasn't designed this way is quite lame.  Chances are, at this stage in development, it will never be implemented.

 

I'd also like to point out, while I understand what the OP is saying(I think), It wouldn't prevent me from buying the game.  

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying, and the chair thing bothers me too. I'm choosing not to buy because I don't want to send a message that this is ok. If we let them get away with it it's just going to get worse. I found a lot of things that were quite good, but not good enough to justify a subscription and all the time I would put into it. Those things for me require the game to actually feel like a virtual world. I'll stick with Skyrim, GTA V and Minecraft until MMORPG's get a wakeup call...if they ever do.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17498

3/03/14 11:55:31 AM#90
Originally posted by nilden
The real joke here is that they didn't put in a basic feature like swimming under water and people are praising them for it.

except it's not really a basic feature. I suppose there is a a certain sadness to the idea of the game world "being a world" but LOTRO doesn't allow you to dive and I don't really think anything is taken away from the game "because of that".

Can't swim in Aion at all.

I don't believe Tera has it. I don't remember it in "The Secret World".

Was it in City of Heroes? Or "Champions Online"? I don't recall ever swimming in those games but maybe I'm wrong.

If it was "basic" then wouldn't all games have it?

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10937

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

3/03/14 12:07:56 PM#91
Originally posted by Massive9

 

Jesus christ you white knights and defenders are terrible!!

 

Read the OP, he clearly states he is not in this for water based combat.

 

He states that the lack of this very basic world interaction (the water bit itself, not the combat) is immersion breaking and therefore game breaking factor for him.

 

A very similar complaint to those who were put off by the artificial "exhaustion zones" in SWTOR.

 

Why can't you accept peoples opinions as they are instead of trying to burn a strawman out of them to avoid acknowledging the game DOES have flaws. For MANY people, this is an example of a lack of basic world interaction and it's a major one. MMORPGs have offered this basic form of world interaction since like 2003.

 

For the same reason that some people can't seem to accept that their opinions aren't objective facts.  To people with a different opinion, these things being highlighted as "flaws" just don't matter.  They aren't "FLAWS", they are irrelevant.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  cura

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 874

3/03/14 12:21:50 PM#92
Im not sure if i could care less about swimming and underwater fighting feels lame to me. Now, if they introduced ship combat, that would be a different thing.
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/03/14 12:26:19 PM#93
I hated underwater combat in gw2 and I avoided it like the plague. I am glad they are not wasting development time on underwater combat that could used to create more "on land combat".
  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 964

3/03/14 12:28:32 PM#94
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nilden
The real joke here is that they didn't put in a basic feature like swimming under water and people are praising them for it.

except it's not really a basic feature. I suppose there is a a certain sadness to the idea of the game world "being a world" but LOTRO doesn't allow you to dive and I don't really think anything is taken away from the game "because of that".

Can't swim in Aion at all.

I don't believe Tera has it. I don't remember it in "The Secret World".

Was it in City of Heroes? Or "Champions Online"? I don't recall ever swimming in those games but maybe I'm wrong.

If it was "basic" then wouldn't all games have it?

 

What would you call it if it's not a basic feature? This is like not being able to jump and people saying yeah F jumping this game is way better because it doesn't have jumping.

Is swimming under water some kind of luxury feature EQ1 was able to bring to the table in 1999 and all these newer games just refuse to go to that lofty high of luxury that is swimming under water? Just because a lot of these games leave something as basic as swimming out doesn't make it any less of a basic feature.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Tr3ize

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/05/09
Posts: 35

3/03/14 12:33:20 PM#95
It does bother me a bit, it's not enough to stop me from playing though. I do hope they add it later on, or at release if they have time left, which they probably wont xD
  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

3/03/14 12:40:24 PM#96
Personally, I'm thrilled there is no underwater swimming. While I understand that the OP enjoys it, it just doesn't bother me in the least. I've found, which to me, are much bigger flaws in ESO.  Flaws that directly affect gameplay and I still am willing to buy, subscribe and play. I hope the devs continue to ignore underwater swimming and keep focused on refining and improving issues that actually affect the core gameplay.
  Bannuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/11/06
Posts: 218

3/03/14 12:43:42 PM#97
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by DAS1337

I think I can explain what the OP is trying to get at.

 

I'll compare their concern to one of mine.  I would love to be able to sit down in a chair that is right in front of me.  Why can't I sit down?  It's the other Elder Scrolls games.  It can't be very hard to design, right?  Will I spend a lot of time sitting down, doing nothing?  Probably not, but that's not really the point.  The point is, I value immersion in my games, and not being able to sit down on a chair is immersion breaking.  So, I believe it is similar to being able to swim, but not being able to swim underwater.  Keep in mind, underwater swimming is in other Elder Scrolls games.  And while it doesn't have to be a major part of the game, the fact that it wasn't designed this way is quite lame.  Chances are, at this stage in development, it will never be implemented.

 

I'd also like to point out, while I understand what the OP is saying(I think), It wouldn't prevent me from buying the game.  

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying, and the chair thing bothers me too. I'm choosing not to buy because I don't want to send a message that this is ok. If we let them get away with it it's just going to get worse. I found a lot of things that were quite good, but not good enough to justify a subscription and all the time I would put into it. Those things for me require the game to actually feel like a virtual world. I'll stick with Skyrim, GTA V and Minecraft until MMORPG's get a wakeup call...if they ever do.

A virtual world is not an exact duplicate.  You do understand that don't you?  Some things are left out like having to go to the bathroom and sleeping 8 hours every 24, but those are ok to leave out while swimming underwater and sitting in chairs is a must? 

Implementing your chosen features may seem easy to you and the few hypercritical folks that agree with you but what would you choose if you were making the decisions?  You must remember that you have a finite budget and a schedule to maintain.  That being said, the underwater swimming will take a great deal of time and resources to design and create just so people like you can swim underwater. 

Since you are obviously not familiar with Project Management or you would know that there are tradeoffs in software development and some things are slid to later builds in a spiral development model in an attempt to achieve the best return on investment, what would you do?  Tell us which features you think are less important to attracting and keeping folks playing than underwater swimming and sitting in chairs just for the hell of it.  I bet you will say voiceovers and I can bet the numbers would never support that decision.

Just for the record, I am a Project Manager and I would never put those two in over what choices they went with, not in the initial release anyway.  Later on?  Sure.  Get the game running and bringing in revenue and then figure out where/when to add more features.

Have fun playing other games though.  I will enjoy ESO just as it is never swimming underwater or sitting in a chair because I can.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1694

3/03/14 12:44:52 PM#98
Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
Originally posted by orionblack
Honestly this is the lamest thing I have ever read...

Second that.

 

I never enjoyed water combat in MMO's, and i really dont think that it would work in TESO, a game with real time combat.

Even skyrim does not have underwater combat.....

 

It sounds like you just want to be mad at this game.

Just as off topic observation...

After SWTOR was released, a lot of pleople got flack on these forms for saying things such a 'well KOTOR didnt have that either" when comparing its content or gameplay. I have no opinion on ESO either way, but I find it quite funny that comparing ESO's abilities and content types to Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind is fare game when defending ESO, but uber taboo for SWTOR to be compared to KOTOR, when its the exact same scenerio...an MMO based off of a single player franchise.

  seacow1g

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  3/03/14 12:56:12 PM#99
Originally posted by Bannuk
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by DAS1337

I think I can explain what the OP is trying to get at.

 

I'll compare their concern to one of mine.  I would love to be able to sit down in a chair that is right in front of me.  Why can't I sit down?  It's the other Elder Scrolls games.  It can't be very hard to design, right?  Will I spend a lot of time sitting down, doing nothing?  Probably not, but that's not really the point.  The point is, I value immersion in my games, and not being able to sit down on a chair is immersion breaking.  So, I believe it is similar to being able to swim, but not being able to swim underwater.  Keep in mind, underwater swimming is in other Elder Scrolls games.  And while it doesn't have to be a major part of the game, the fact that it wasn't designed this way is quite lame.  Chances are, at this stage in development, it will never be implemented.

 

I'd also like to point out, while I understand what the OP is saying(I think), It wouldn't prevent me from buying the game.  

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying, and the chair thing bothers me too. I'm choosing not to buy because I don't want to send a message that this is ok. If we let them get away with it it's just going to get worse. I found a lot of things that were quite good, but not good enough to justify a subscription and all the time I would put into it. Those things for me require the game to actually feel like a virtual world. I'll stick with Skyrim, GTA V and Minecraft until MMORPG's get a wakeup call...if they ever do.

A virtual world is not an exact duplicate.  You do understand that don't you?  Some things are left out like having to go to the bathroom and sleeping 8 hours every 24, but those are ok to leave out while swimming underwater and sitting in chairs is a must? 

Implementing your chosen features may seem easy to you and the few hypercritical folks that agree with you but what would you choose if you were making the decisions?  You must remember that you have a finite budget and a schedule to maintain.  That being said, the underwater swimming will take a great deal of time and resources to design and create just so people like you can swim underwater. 

Since you are obviously not familiar with Project Management or you would know that there are tradeoffs in software development and some things are slid to later builds in a spiral development model in an attempt to achieve the best return on investment, what would you do?  Tell us which features you think are less important to attracting and keeping folks playing than underwater swimming and sitting in chairs just for the hell of it.  I bet you will say voiceovers and I can bet the numbers would never support that decision.

Just for the record, I am a Project Manager and I would never put those two in over what choices they went with, not in the initial release anyway.  Later on?  Sure.  Get the game running and bringing in revenue and then figure out where/when to add more features.

Have fun playing other games though.  I will enjoy ESO just as it is never swimming underwater or sitting in a chair because I can.

As I already mentioned there are real life interactions that hinder gameplay. Going to the bathroom and requiring sleep are examples of such features. I can see how they could be implemented well but I also know why they are troublesome and thus don't mind keeping them out of a virtual world. On the other hand, underwater exploration can only expand the potential of the game, not limit it. 

Also, I am well aware of project management and this is the exact reason why I don't want to pay to support what I consider to be bad decisions. Time and time again we've seen voice acting to be one of the biggest wastes of money on a scale of how much money it costs to implement compared to how much enjoyment it adds to the game. Now I'm not saying I hate voice acting, but if it means cutting out basic world interactions completely then I'd rather tone down that budget. This is a  simple matter of disagreeing on where to allocate the resources.

Why in the world should we encourage being able to do LESS in our MMORPG's than we used to? If the success of minecraft has shown anything (and yes I'm aware its a sandbox and I'm not trying to incite a sandbox vs themepark discussion) it's that being able to do more can be more important than graphics, voice acting or anything else.

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1284

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

3/03/14 12:58:16 PM#100
Originally posted by nilden
The real joke here is that they didn't put in a basic feature like swimming under water and people are praising them for it.

I don't see anyone praising them for this. No one is saying. "This is awesome, I have been waiting for a game that lacks underwater swimming. Holding my breath totally breaks immersion for me." (see what I did there?)

I think that those who disagree with the OP are doing so because this seems like a rather arbitrary line to draw. If you don't like the game, don't like it for what it has in it rather than where they chose to draw the boundaries of their world..

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