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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Will ADD-ONS kill this game?

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352 posts found
  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1045

2/27/14 11:26:29 AM#121
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by ImperialSun

 

It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?

 

If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?

 

If that was remotely true you would have a point.

 

We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.

There have been several polls on this topic and while forum goers are a small number overall.. Stastically they can still reflect with the masses are thinking. In the bulk of those polls people voted along the lines of  "Addons allowed - but no addons that give extra information."  We have gone on this several times as well. Things like seeing all of the targets resource pools (magicka and stamina). Mods that tell you when to counter. When I bring these up people fire back with, those queues are already in the game. Maybe they are, but they are also subtle. They do not include flashing lights, sirens and giant buttons flashing to tell me what to do.

 

I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.

That can mean anything. I already stated several times that I am fine with "certain mods". Nothing that you or the devs have stated says anything about what they will not allow. So I will continue to be vocal on all fronts. This forum, the beta forum, the Bethesda forum. Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. Until we know what the scope of this is going to be it needs to be smeared right in their face. Exactly as other issues have been and ultimately they have commented on.

 

Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out :)

Thats just what you want us to do. Forget it.. sweep it under the rug. Gee its not a big deal. 

Nope, everyone here keep doing what you have been. Talk about it. Make threads. Send emails to Zen and make sure to use the /feedback option in game this weekend.

 

 

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2548

2/27/14 11:27:24 AM#122

The elder scrolls always had a huge modding community. I do not see how you can appeal to the fans if you prevent modding. It has to be allowed and once you open the floodgates you cannot really try to trap the water in. It is very difficult to control this people will cheat in PvP. To win you just need better mods.

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  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

2/27/14 11:32:55 AM#123
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by ImperialSun

 

It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?

 

If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?

 

"why are you the single person on the defense in this thread"

 

I count three people who either want mods or have no issue with them either way, on this page alone. The same is true throughout the thread. You discredit yourself when you resort to blatant lies. I guess you were hoping people coming into the thread at the back end would see that and just take it as fact? You know, because thats what you want them to believe.

 

Driz

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 615

 
OP  2/27/14 11:33:13 AM#124

Again I want to point out that the purpose of my post was not ANTI-mod... Mods are in the game and were planned that way from the start...

 

My point was what is "allowed" by way of mods... and hoping it would not dictate how the game must be played as it has done so for other games...

Some people state that modding was always a big part of the ES series and that is true, however when we look at most of the mods they are mostly visual enhancements and texture boosts, or a more PC friendly streamlined UI, in some cases they are content add ons... There are all great examples of enhancement mods.

 

Take a look at LOTRO (at least back in the day when I played it) their modding capability was strictly limited to basic UI themes.

 

When mods become necessary it is when there is an issue... I did not create this post to stymie anyone's creativity and there is some incredible talent out there in the modding community. Perhaps "kill" was a bad word to use (although it did have the dramatic effect) a better word may be "Ruin"... DBM, meters, cast bars are all examples of mods that force a particular style of game play and when the entire community if forced to have these type of mods in order to participate THIS BECOMES AN ISSUE... Now players will botch that "the game is not challenging" because mods dictate to a player exactly what they have to do, and the developers now have to create content around these mods that take the "margin of error" or "learning curve" out of an encounter.

 

There are some that mentioned "there are <PvP> games without mods that stil have speedhacks etc" well that is outright cheating and hacking and that argument has no place here because those cheaters will always find a way to hack and cheat their way in.

 

I will be using add-ons, especially ones that I feel enhance the game for me whether it is a UI enhancement or something to make elements of the game more visually appealing. I just hope Zeni limits or recognizes THEN limits add on capabilities so that players are not given certain advantages over those who do not use a particular mod for PvE OR PvP.

 

 

 

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

2/27/14 11:39:47 AM#125
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by ImperialSun

 

It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?

 

If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?

 

If that was remotely true you would have a point.

 

We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.

There have been several polls on this topic and while forum goers are a small number overall.. Stastically they can still reflect with the masses are thinking. In the bulk of those polls people voted along the lines of  "Addons allowed - but no addons that give extra information."  We have gone on this several times as well. Things like seeing all of the targets resource pools (magicka and stamina). Mods that tell you when to counter. When I bring these up people fire back with, those queues are already in the game. Maybe they are, but they are also subtle. They do not include flashing lights, sirens and giant buttons flashing to tell me what to do.

 

I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.

That can mean anything. I already stated several times that I am fine with "certain mods". Nothing that you or the devs have stated says anything about what they will not allow. So I will continue to be vocal on all fronts. This forum, the beta forum, the Bethesda forum. Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. Until we know what the scope of this is going to be it needs to be smeared right in their face. Exactly as other issues have been and ultimately they have commented on.

 

Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out :)

Thats just what you want us to do. Forget it.. sweep it under the rug. Gee its not a big deal. 

Nope, everyone here keep doing what you have been. Talk about it. Make threads. Send emails to Zen and make sure to use the /feedback option in game this weekend.

 

 

 

Riiiiiight.....and what does "extra information" mean exactly? Thats quite an expansive term :)

 

So you admit all of the data and the queues are already there in game, YOUR issue is with how audible or how visible they are? You only want these queuees to be very subtle. Great. Thats great for you.

 

Now what about those with poor hearing, or those that are colour blind or otherwise impaired to a degree that these ever so subtle queues are not as discernable to them? Mods and addons can help those players PvP more easily and feel included in the games community.

 

Why would you seek to deny these types of players from enjoying the experience as much as you? Or do you need an advantage over them by forcing them suffer subtle and easily missable queues purely so you can feel more immersed?

 

It's a two way street once you get into demanding things are removed simply because you don't see a benefit to them.

 

Driz

  Saxx0n

PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 832

2/27/14 11:51:10 AM#126

So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?

 

The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.

 

I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.

 

How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?

 

Driz

If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?

 

It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

2/27/14 12:03:07 PM#127
Originally posted by Saxx0n

So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?

 

The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.

 

I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.

 

How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?

 

Driz

If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?

 

It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?

 

I can categorically state that I would have absolutely zero problem with someone developing a privacy mod and you using it. Once more for clarity, zero problem. In fact more power to you.

 

If I even buy the game and I chose to use some or all of the mods that are available and sanctioned within the ToS, I would be using them for my own benefit and no one elses.

 

I could care less whether 1 or 1,000,000 people use them or don't use them. I PvP predominantly for fun and do not get caught up on HAVING to be elite...I just like the additional functionality that mods can provide, especially if the games default UI and combat feedback leaves much to be desired as ESO's seems to.

 

What I take exception to is those that try and force others to "play it my way or not at all..."

 

I think the one point we would not see eye to eye on is that I DO believe if everyone has access to the same options and opportunities, but you personally choose not to use them where others do, it is not the mod that is disadvantaging you. It is you that is choosing to disadvantage you.

 

You cannot be at a dis-advantage when you have access to all of the exact same options and opportunities that 100% of the playerbase has access to. That IS a level playing field.

 

Driz

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

2/27/14 12:09:34 PM#128

I quit Rift and WoW because of the unrealistic demand players made to others almost insisting on having ADD-ONs. 

UI changes are ok but the DPS meters and gear checks were just garbage and ruined the community as a whole.

Lolipops !

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1045

2/27/14 12:19:29 PM#129
Originally posted by Saxx0n

So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?

 

The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.

 

I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.

 

How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?

 

If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?

 

It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?

 

Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

2/27/14 12:25:55 PM#130
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by Saxx0n

So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?

 

The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.

 

I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.

 

How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?

 

If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?

 

It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?

 

Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.

 

So everyone that disagrees with you, or has an alternative opinion is lying, as well as being thick.

 

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

 

None of your objections or claims are quantifiable either, so by your rationale you can make up anything you want right?

 

Driz

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1045

2/27/14 12:36:50 PM#131
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by Saxx0n

So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?

 

The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.

 

I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.

 

How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?

 

If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?

 

It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?

 

Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.

 

So everyone that disagrees with you, or has an alternative opinion is lying, as well as being thick.

 

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

 

None of your objections or claims are quantifiable either, so by your rationale you can make up anything you want right?

 

Nope that reply was to educate, so they understand how it works.
 

Some may lie some may not. They need to be aware that you can't block any function of another person addon via an addon you are running.

Makes it less of a talking point - since it isn't possible.

  Itherael

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/14
Posts: 107

2/27/14 12:56:13 PM#132

After reading a few posts, I have decided to write down an extensive breakdown of my point of view regarding this entire situation.

Premise: Some add-ons, in their current state, allow the user to obtain information that would otherwise be impossible with the default UI. This creates a necessity for such add-ons as it provides an advantage in competitive play. This in turn leads players that want to remain competitive to have to use add-ons that may completely go against what the Elder Scrolls series is all about.

Counterargument #1: If ESO does not have add-ons, if won't be Elder Scrolls-y.

Retort: First of all, my premise does not say "every add-on", only ones that allow users to obtain information that would otherwise be impossible to acquire. I believe ESO should have add-ons, just not ones that provide a significant advantage in competitive play which generates a necessity. Namely, certain add-ons that allow users to see the enemy's exact amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina, the enemy's buffs/debuffs, and the cast bar and name of the spell/ability being used by the enemy are the focus of this discussion. These are things which simply are not shown with the default UI.

In fact, the add-ons in question have no resemblance to any of the mods for Skyrim or Oblivion; they are much more akin to World of Warcraft or other games of the sort. However, ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, and the minute you generate a necessity for such add-ons to remain competitive, you absolutely hinder the Elder Scrolls portion of the game. Why? Because the series is all about immersion, it is about placing the player's focus on the world and on the action and not on the UI. This is largely achieved by having an extremely minimalistic UI, something ESO's default UI very much accomplishes. Yet, the developer's vision and work is absolutely put to waste the minute you introduce these add-ons, which are necessary to remain competitive. ESO goes from an Elder Scrolls-like game, where you watch the world and action, to a generic MMO-like game, where you watch UI bars go up and down. The add-ons in question absolutely clutter the screen with UI elements that have not even a remote similarity to what you see in any of the Elder Scrolls games, modded or not.

Counterargument #2: If you think it makes your screen ugly and not immersive, don't use it.

Retort: The problem with this mentality is that it does not address the entire competitive nature of an online game. In a game where players play with and against each other, competition and player interaction is everything. As such, the add-ons in question provide a clear advantage to its users, becoming a necessity for competitive play. They do this by providing information that would otherwise be inaccessible; information which is invaluable for maximizing combat efficiency. This is a problem because if you want to remain competitive, yet you want an Elder Scrolls-like experience, these two things conflict each other.

Counterargument #3: If these add-ons, which give us all the information about our enemies, exist, it is because the developers allowed it.

Retort: It is true that the developers are entirely responsible for this, for they allowed such add-ons to do these things. However, developers are also prone to making mistakes and taking bad calls. As such, if the developers are in a position to do something about it, then players have every right to voice their opinion and send forth their criticism in hopes of getting a response on the issue. In fact, I believe we as customers have an obligation to send them feedback to make this the best game possible. This has happened before, with first-person mode and collision detection, both which were not part of the first iterations of the game, but then later were made available due to the community's reaction. Therefore, we need to once again tell them how we feel and hope they have sound judgement to tackle the issue accordingly.

My Proposal: With all that being said, I believe ZeniMax Online should seriously reconsider what can or can't be done with add-ons. All in all, I feel having add-ons in the game is important and should definitely happen, but they need to be restricted to showing only what the default UI can show. Meaning, any detailed information about the enemy, like how much magicka they have or their spell's cast time, should not be shown, for the default UI does not show this. Add-ons should not have an effect on game play balance, should not provide an advantage to users, and should most definitely not influence the competitive nature of the game.

  Baikal

Tipster

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 1029

2/27/14 12:58:38 PM#133

There is a serious lack of information about the addon's and it sure seems to be coloring people's perceptions. Proof that lack of facts is never a slow down for a debate...

Start Here

Specifically the Tamriel Foundry Combat Addon which most people are talking about.


If you bother to read the thread, people who have worked on the creation of the addon, essentially worked with Zenimax to create this. Zenimax is only parceling out parts of the information that you'd get in other MMO's. What this means, is that right now, you can't write a script to have a character do "X" if a target does "Y". This eliminates things like a WoW Deadly Boss Mods, which was another thing people here are saying they don't want.

No, it is not lazy development, nor is it a bad play for Zenimax to do it. If you further read that thread, someone make a good point, that if the floating numbers had been a part of the game, much of the feedback would have been that "this is not Elder Scroll's Enough". The stock UI is minimalist, that's good, it makes the Elder Scroll crowd feel right at home. Via addon, (and let's be honest, community made UI's are likely more popular than stock UI for a variety of reasons) people who are coming in with an MMO background are satisfied.

So let's summarize...you get UI mods that have information that is already presented in the game. You get a minimalist stock UI for Elder Scrolls fans, and with Zenimax blocking some of the assets, you don't get the more obtrusive "Boss Mods", and "Play it for me" type of addon's.

So really, what's the fuss about again?

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1045

2/27/14 1:18:51 PM#134

Great post - Itherael

 

Edit - cause formatting...

  SolarRain

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/04
Posts: 32

2/27/14 3:16:54 PM#135

Personally I don't really care. But I do hope someone comes up with a replacement UI. The ESO UI is a godawful and uninspired, uninviting, lazy ass piece of shit. It was shit in Skyrim and it's still shit. I'm all for function and minimal design (which it does well), but I at least like a UI that looks pleasing, but most importantly appropriate, which here it definitely is not. The UI actually reminds me of modern military shooters, and it doesn't help immersion, it actually breaks it for me.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/27/14 3:25:33 PM#136
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by deakon

Most the info (buffs, de-buffs, casting prompt etc) that the addons shown so far provide is info already in the UI if you know what you are looking at/for.

The only exception is de-buff timers, and tbh the games UI should be able to show this (along with combat info, scrolling or not) as standard just like every single successful mmo does. The fact that you can display this info in an easily readable way means that addons are a requirement for MANY people, and guess what they are completely optional too! So if you don't like it don't use it (like I say if you know what your looking at/for you have access to most the info anyway)

Why do people spout that more options are good then turn around and say well if you want addons that option shouldn't be allowed?

Are you really too stupid to understand what was said several times in this thread alone? People want leveled field of play without neccessity to clutter their interace with addons that give adventage to other people.

 

Are you really too stupid to read the post you quoted?

 

I will help by re-quoting them for you

 

"Most the info (buffs, de-buffs, casting prompt etc) that the addons shown so far provide is info already in the UI if you know what you are looking at/for."

 

The "clutter" is completely optional because the info that gives an "advantage to other people" is by and large already available in the base ui (buffs, debuffs, casting animations etc), you just need to know what you are looking for/at.

 

So I ask again why should we be restricted on how we choose to show that info in a more readable (but less visually appealing) way, surely having the OPTION is a good thing, no?

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3169

2/27/14 3:25:54 PM#137
Originally posted by SolarRain

Personally I don't really care. But I do hope someone comes up with a replacement UI. The ESO UI is a godawful and uninspired, uninviting, lazy ass piece of shit. It was shit in Skyrim and it's still shit. I'm all for function and minimal design (which it does well), but I at least like a UI that looks pleasing, but most importantly appropriate, which here it definitely is not. The UI actually reminds me of modern military shooters, and it doesn't help immersion, it actually breaks it for me.

So, you feel more "immersed" when the screen is full of toolbars, icons and status indicators ?

It takes all kinds, I guess.

 

Good thing about ESO is that with Add-On's, we can both have what we want, even if we do come from opposite ends of the "ideal UI" spectrum...

  Itherael

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/14
Posts: 107

2/27/14 3:42:53 PM#138
Originally posted by deakon

 

Are you really too stupid to read the post you quoted?

 

I will help by re-quoting them for you

 

"Most the info (buffs, de-buffs, casting prompt etc) that the addons shown so far provide is info already in the UI if you know what you are looking at/for."

 

The "clutter" is completely optional because the info that gives an "advantage to other people" is by and large already available in the base ui (buffs, debuffs, casting animations etc), you just need to know what you are looking for/at.

 

So I ask again why should we be restricted on how we choose to show that info in a more readable (but less visually appealing) way, surely having the OPTION is a good thing, no?

This is not true, at all! There are things being displayed by add-ons that simply CAN'T be displayed with the default UI! For instance, with the default UI, there is absolutely no way of seeing the exact amount of health, magicka, and stamina the enemy has, the exact amount of time his spell/ability needs to be cast, the name of the spell/ability he is about to use before he actually uses it (if it has a cast-time), and his buffs and debuffs and exactly when they will wear off. This information CAN'T be seen without add-ons.

Tell me, how exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to determine how much magicka and stamina his enemy has? How exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to determine which buffs and debuffs his enemy has and when they will expire? How exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to know exactly when to use execute-type abilities that deal more damage if the enemy has less than a certain percentage of health? How exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to know exactly when his enemy's ability/spell with a cast-time will go off? You may say, "Well, if you look at his animation you will know what he is going to do!" However, this method is considerably less accurate because many animations stay the same throughout the entirety of their cast time in a "charging up" fashion, so unless you are able to count perfectly in your head when it will hit (this is considering you have memorized the cast-time of each and every ability and spell in the game and that you saw his animation from the start), then this method becomes unfeasible. 

If things go live the way they currently are, add-ons will not be merely "optional clutter". They will be absolute necessities for anyone wanting to compete seriously.

  Niburu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 347

2/27/14 3:46:22 PM#139
The boring meaningless content will kill ESO, no worries. Run from questmarker to questmarker and press E
  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

2/27/14 3:58:14 PM#140
Originally posted by Itherael
Originally posted by deakon

 

Are you really too stupid to read the post you quoted?

 

I will help by re-quoting them for you

 

"Most the info (buffs, de-buffs, casting prompt etc) that the addons shown so far provide is info already in the UI if you know what you are looking at/for."

 

The "clutter" is completely optional because the info that gives an "advantage to other people" is by and large already available in the base ui (buffs, debuffs, casting animations etc), you just need to know what you are looking for/at.

 

So I ask again why should we be restricted on how we choose to show that info in a more readable (but less visually appealing) way, surely having the OPTION is a good thing, no?

This is not true, at all! There are things being displayed by add-ons that simply CAN'T be displayed with the default UI at all! For instance, with the default UI, there is absolutely no way of seeing the exact amount of health, magicka, and stamina the enemy has, the exact amount of time his spell/ability needs to be cast, the name of the spell/ability he is about to use before he actually uses it (if it has a cast-time), and his buffs and debuffs and exactly when they will wear off. This information CAN'T be seen without add-ons.

Tell me, how exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to determine how much magicka and stamina his enemy has? How exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to determine which buffs and debuffs his enemy has and when they will expire? How exactly, without add-ons, is the player going to know exactly when his enemy's ability/spell with a cast-time will go off? You may say, "Well, if you look at his animation you will know what he is going to do!" However, this method is considerably less accurate because many animations stay the same throughout the entirety of their cast time in a "charging up" fashion, so unless you are able to count perfectly in your head when it will hit (this is considering you have memorized the cast-time of each and every ability and spell in the game and that you saw his animation from the start), then this method becomes unfeasible. 

 

How does seeing my magika and stamina help you though, if you don't know my build it doesn't and even if you do how is it going to help you? Are you going to run away if I have full resources? No you will still fight me regardless

 

Buffs and debuffs appear around the target frame, each has its own affect on the frame, when they disappear, they are up. If you struggle to see when to interrupt a spell, you are blind/stupid and theres no addons to help with that, its very obvious no matter what the spell is, and the animations are actually all pretty different once you know what you are looking at. You don't need to know when the casting is finished because by then its too late, as long as you can tell the casting has started you can interrupt (which is the only reason to want to see cast bars anyway).

 

The only thing you have mentioned that isn't available is seeing other players mana/stamina, and lets be honest its pretty shocking that those things aren't available as an option in the base ui anyway (like it is in every themepark mmorpg), but claiming it gives some big advantage to those with addons is pure nonsense, especially in this game where the main end game (AvA) is based unequal sided battles anyway

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