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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What makes a WoW clone?

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  Vercin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 293

2/26/14 4:01:58 PM#61

At  this point I would call any game that isn't a flop a WOW clone. 

Since you know WOW actually succeeded.

The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.

  spizz

Elite Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2541

2/26/14 4:11:08 PM#62
Originally posted by Ender4

We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.

1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.

2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.

3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.

4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.

Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.

So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.

 

There is one majore point which people forget when they assume or claim that a game is a "WoW Clone".

You read so often about so called "WoW Clones" and when you actually play such games they dont deliver what you expect.

 

People just talk and write too much about the TECHNICAL features which they compare with WoW.

What they actually most of the time forget is the FEELING of the game and this is one of the most important point when it comes to the success of  World of Warcraft (at least I can say this only about Vanilla WoW).

 

Just throwing together some technical gameplay features and call it a "WoW Clone" is not enough.

 

 

 

 

 

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5760

2/26/14 5:32:22 PM#63
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by slickbizzle
Originally posted by laserit

WoW Clone?

 

What did WoW do that was original and exclusive to WoW?

Clever marketing.   Blizzard hyped it so well ("Play the online sensation that is taking over the world!"), that people started buying into it.  Then the players became addicted and started recruiting other people to it to validate their addiction.  

 

No matter how you slice it, the most clever marketing ever. From buying all ad space, to supporting youtube players, that the uninteresting worship, to hype their game for them as well. Warcraft is THE pinnacle in MMO marketing. Nobody will beat them at that. Ever.

 

 

Too bad that argument falls apart after we see the outcome of SWtOR

SWTOR is completely irrelevant .

 

When I think of World of Warcraft marketing, two things stick in my head:

 

Ozzy Osbourne and a little help from South Park

World of Warcraft was a multimillion sub's before south park and Osborn commercial. You ignore that.

You are absolutely correct.  I don't understand what the point of your argument is?

Commercial didnt make WoW successful. Because if it did SWTOR would be as well

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5760

2/26/14 5:34:28 PM#64
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by Ender4

We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.

1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.

2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.

3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.

4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.

Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.

So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.

 

There is one majore point which people forget when they assume or claim that a game is a "WoW Clone".

You read so often about so called "WoW Clones" and when you actually play such games they dont deliver what you expect.

 

People just talk and write too much about the TECHNICAL features which they compare with WoW.

What they actually most of the time forget is the FEELING of the game and this is one of the most important point when it comes to the success of  World of Warcraft (at least I can say this only about Vanilla WoW).

 

Just throwing together some technical gameplay features and call it a "WoW Clone" is not enough.

 

 

 

 

 

That wouldn't be a WoW Clone.

That would be a WoW Abomination!

  free2play

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1746

2/26/14 6:33:51 PM#65

There are no WoW clones. Just WoW wannabe's. Until another MMO breaks 10 mill subscribers at its peak, there won't be a WoW clone.

 

Consider the point of it all, every MMO since WoW is a WoW wannabe though. Both on player and publisher side. Not including EVE. They seem to like being the misfit, red headed step child of MMO land.

  slickbizzle

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 435

2/26/14 6:53:50 PM#66
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Commercial didnt make WoW successful. Because if it did SWTOR would be as well

 SWTOR is successful. They are making money.  They may "only" be making 250 million a year with it, but that isn't shabby.   They could throw their game in every country so they can do the "Come play with 50 million people!" routine, but the people that fall for that marketing are already playing a game that did that. And they aren't leaving.

 

 

  Katilla

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 610

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

2/26/14 6:54:36 PM#67
The people who throw this term around usually do not have much MMORPG exp and only really know WoW mechanics.  Ignorance brings out the term because they do not realise that WoW borrowed from previous games.  It's like nothing existed before WoW to them for some reason and they refuse to see otherwise.
  Katilla

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 610

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

2/26/14 6:57:47 PM#68
Originally posted by Ender4

We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.

1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.

(Sort of but not really.)

2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.

(wrong)

3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.

(dead wrong, EQ had elite mobs before WoW)

4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.

(this kind of ruined PVP in my opinion)

Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.

So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.

 

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2007

2/26/14 7:01:09 PM#69
The reason you hear talk of WoW clones all the time is precisely because different people maintain all different kinds of definitions for the term.  That is, there is no one defining characteristic or cluster of features that make a game a WoW clone to some people.  In fact, for most people, all they need to see is one feature, no matter how small or insignificant (ie. tab target combat or highly stylized graphics), that was also prevalent in WoW, and they're content will calling the game a WoW clone.  
  syriinx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 496

2/26/14 7:02:25 PM#70
Originally posted by Ender4

We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.

1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.

2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.

3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.

4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.

Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.

So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.

This is not remotely a WoW clone.  this is just a themepark.

 

WoW clone means copying key systems directly out of WoW.  Things such as: the UI, three tiered talent systems, gather and click crafting with guaranteed skillups, ilevel formulas for gear with strict raid tiers, etc.

The textbook WoW clone was launch Rift.  SWtoR is the next closest.  Those are the only two AAA games close enough to WoW to be a clone.

  korent1991

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1302

2/26/14 7:34:15 PM#71

What makes a WOW clone?

people. people who are clinging so much to the idea of "clones" among games that it's absurd already. it's like beating the dead horse vol. 99.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11363

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

2/26/14 8:55:59 PM#72
To me, it's pretty much any class-restricted, level-based gear-centric fantasy MMO.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11363

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

2/26/14 9:00:52 PM#73
Originally posted by Katilla
The people who throw this term around usually do not have much MMORPG exp and only really know WoW mechanics.  Ignorance brings out the term because they do not realise that WoW borrowed from previous games.  It's like nothing existed before WoW to them for some reason and they refuse to see otherwise.

They do know it is borrowed from other games, but - as explained many, many times before - millions more people have played WOW than EQ or DikuMUDs, so 'WOW' is used as the most recognizable point of reference. If you weren't so busy pointing fingers at others and calling them ignorant (in a rather ironic manner, btw), you could have spent a moment to actually do some research, BUT... at least now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

  GuyClinch

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 446

2/26/14 9:29:40 PM#74

Combat defines MMOs. Its the one part of the game most players play a ton. It sets the genre - not the RPG style game decisions.

So for a game to be a clone it has to have the same kind of combat. So for example - SWTOR, FFXIV - clones. Tera, GW2, TESO, Wildstar, Defiance,  etc - not clones.

To put this in context - there are some driving games where you have to win certain races to advance - and then you can upgrade your car and so on. Think Gran Turismo 5. This is very much like a single player rpg where you have to do quests to get your guy better gear and advance.

But despite that they aren't the same kind of game at all. That's because the main 'stuff' of the game is what defines it not the reward systems.

  iixviiiix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 306

2/26/14 9:39:23 PM#75

Funny that "WOW clone" started with WOW fanboy who love WOW too much to call any MMORPGs with same system of quest hubs and instances gear treadmill .

And now it use by people who don't like WOW formula .

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1166

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

2/26/14 11:13:36 PM#76
There are no WoW clones.  Everyone forgets WoW became popular because they let the public mod their UI.  No other game has done that with legal blessings.

Playing FFXIV-ARR NA:Faerie. Best FC's Mytical Mourning - Rhett or White Lotus - Lotus.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5760

2/27/14 12:51:06 AM#77
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
There are no WoW clones.  Everyone forgets WoW became popular because they let the public mod their UI.  No other game has done that with legal blessings.

huh?

AC?

 

Again like somebody said,

 

nothing in WoW is original. it all came from somewhere. even the IP itself. It put those right pieces together in the right way. and polished it. Thats why it was a hit.

  cowhunters

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/10
Posts: 28

2/27/14 1:17:14 AM#78

wow  was a clone of eq1  short and sweet  

they still are copying ideas from soe  every chance  they get . so why say  how wow changed  the genre 

eq2  has a panda race  4 years later wow has a panda  race   and theres alot more 

 

eq1 had mounts   6 years later wow  has mounts  

 so wow just a clone of another game  already  nothing new on  the genre  

and people say there cloneing wow  well no there cloneing eq1   and  gamers that never played eq1-eq2   say its a wow clone 

moo all

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5760

2/27/14 1:30:37 AM#79
Originally posted by cowhunters

wow  was a clone of eq1  short and sweet  

they still are copying ideas from soe  every chance  they get . so why say  how wow changed  the genre 

eq2  has a panda race  4 years later wow has a panda  race   and theres alot more 

 

eq1 had mounts   6 years later wow  has mounts  

 so wow just a clone of another game  already  nothing new on  the genre  

and people say there cloneing wow  well no there cloneing eq1   and  gamers that never played eq1-eq2   say its a wow clone 

I see the term being used more by people that hate WoW. Not so much by people that are WoW fans.

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 611

2/27/14 1:38:06 AM#80
Originally posted by Ender4

We hear this term all the time and people fight valiantly to defend their game like being called this is the worst thing in the world. To me defining the WoW clone relies on understanding how WoW changed the genre.

1. Quest based leveling. Quests existed before WoW but it was the first major title where you could spend 100% of your time leveling by doing quests.

2. Instanced group content. Again WoW was not the first game to use instancing but it was the first major title (The Realm doesn't count~) that put you almost exclusively in an instance for any group based content.

3. Easy solo mob with specifically designated harder mobs for groups. EQ, DAOC, AC etc all had different difficulty levels for solo mobs but WoW was the first to add the elite style mob for all group based mobs. Other games used that for a few bosses etc but in most games before WoW a mob in a dungeon was the same as one outside. This meant you could tool around in a dungeon solo or in a group of 2 etc. It was also the start of the no respawn style dungeon. What this did was dumb down the solo experience while also restricting dungeons to groups only, this is one of the worst changes in the genre that has really killed the dungeon experience imo.

4. Instanced PvP. Before WoW PvP was part of the open world even if it was in only restricted servers or restricted zones. WoW started pushing it off into its own box where it has no meaning to the greater world anymore.

Later WoW also added extremely linear quests so if you go that path you are a late WoW clone.

So if you have instance based PvP, quest based leveling, dungeon mobs that are harder than a normal mob and solo mobs that are a joke to kill, a fantasy based theme and you push groups into instances you are a WoW clone imo. You can mess with the character progression, the combat etc and that doesn't matter, you are still a clone in my personal book.

Definitely in the right direction. A minor death penalty too.

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