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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why MMORPG's need permadeath! (ToA)

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96 posts found
  Choch

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  2/23/14 1:20:42 PM#1

 

Because we've all grown attached to our characters, we've forgotten how to truly enjoy games and truly be immersed in the games.

We no longer gain a sense of danger. There is no risk vs reward. There is no inbetween for our games. It's all about how you start and what the end-game is like. So you get to the end of the game - now what? Wait for the next expansion just to do it all over again? And then what? etc. etc.

The leaking faucet continues to leak and we all wonder why we get bored of our games.

We need to bring life back to our games and we can do that by introducing permadeath in more places.

 

If you look into Trials of Ascension - they do an incredible job making permadeath not just a great feature but a great balancing of the game and its players.

Check out this guide!

http://trialsofascension.com/guide/

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1842

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

2/23/14 1:23:43 PM#2
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...
  Choch

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  2/23/14 1:25:50 PM#3
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

  Flyte27

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2336

2/23/14 1:30:26 PM#4

Most people won't even accept death penalties on this board that will halt character progress if they suck at playing the game. 

Personally I don't like permadeath.  Loosing your character completely in a multiplayer game seems a bit much.  You put a lot more effort/time into MMO characters.  In a game like Mario you only put a few hours in.

I'd like to see punishment for sucking in games.

  radagast777

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/11
Posts: 82

2/23/14 1:32:47 PM#5
Losing your items and maybe xp but not your whole character
  syriinx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 1000

2/23/14 1:37:51 PM#6
There might be room for a permadeath MMO or two, but it would be an extreme minority that would even consider playing, so it would have to be a near perfect game to overcome its population crippling feature to have any kind of player base.
  papabear151

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 98

2/23/14 1:42:39 PM#7
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

Because, IMO, MMORPG's are supposed to be about playing an alternate "you" in a virtual world (Old school thoughts, I know). MMORPG's are all about immersion to me. I'm all for firmer death penalties, in Asheron's Call you lost items and experience, and in early AC returning to your corpse was a pain and in some cases nearly impossible, this was great.

However, the moment I lost my virtual "Me" that I spend x-hundred hours on... done... absolutely done. Disgusted and done.

  Choch

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  2/23/14 1:42:45 PM#8

 

I think permadeath is more than possible if it is done right.

 

For example: 1 life to live is extreme and gives a very stinging feeling of permadeath but what about 100 deaths? With 100 deaths, permadeath is diluted and you can prepare for it too. It isn't like this surprise to you. It's expected.

  GrayImpact

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 921

2/23/14 1:44:57 PM#9
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

Because mario brothers didn't have hundreds / potentially thousands of hours of content or gameplay.

 

The only MMO's I'd accept perma death in would be a mmo that has very little progression in it.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 197

2/23/14 1:45:43 PM#10

I would love a permadeath game.  Problem is no big companies have the balls to do it, aside from CCP, but who knows how far off World of Darkness is.

 

The other problem is that your standard MMO is all about spending hundreds or thousands of hours acquiring stupid gear and achievements for your character.  Permadeath runs counter to that.  It has to be implemented in a sandbox system where advancement is faster to counteract the possibility of permadeath and allow a player to jump right back in.  You also have to fix the standard mmo leveling curve, where a "level 50" can take on 20 "level 30s" at once, because he happens to have ten more levels.  If there even is leveling, the power curve must remain more horizontal.

 

I do like the implementation in ToA, but sadly, it seems like it will be one of those games you have to sacrifice a lot of quality for, since it just doesn't have the budget (and probably won't have the playerbase either.)  It's an uphill battle for indie companies to try and put out a permadeath MMO.  I don't think people will accept that kind of system until a major MMO manages to incorporate it successfully.

  Choch

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  2/23/14 1:46:18 PM#11
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

Because, IMO, MMORPG's are supposed to be about playing an alternate "you" in a virtual world (Old school thoughts, I know). MMORPG's are all about immersion to me. I'm all for firmer death penalties, in Asheron's Call you lost items and experience, and in early AC returning to your corpse was a pain and in some cases nearly impossible, this was great.

However, the moment I lost my virtual "Me" that I spend x-hundred hours on... done... absolutely done. Disgusted and done.

I share the same sentiments too but think about this for a second. The only reason you got to X-hundreds of hours with that 1 character is because permadeath didn't exist so obviously your character is going to be a large investment and thus, permadeath is not viable.

 

  papabear151

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 98

2/23/14 1:47:13 PM#12
Originally posted by GimiZigi

 

I think permadeath is more than possible if it is done right.

 

For example: 1 life to live is extreme and gives a very stinging feeling of permadeath but what about 100 deaths? With 100 deaths, permadeath is diluted and you can prepare for it too. It isn't like this surprise to you. It's expected.

Because playing the game till 99 dealths and then retiring your character is lame.

  papabear151

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 98

2/23/14 1:49:54 PM#13
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

Because, IMO, MMORPG's are supposed to be about playing an alternate "you" in a virtual world (Old school thoughts, I know). MMORPG's are all about immersion to me. I'm all for firmer death penalties, in Asheron's Call you lost items and experience, and in early AC returning to your corpse was a pain and in some cases nearly impossible, this was great.

However, the moment I lost my virtual "Me" that I spend x-hundred hours on... done... absolutely done. Disgusted and done.

I share the same sentiments too but think about this for a second. The only reason you got to X-hundreds of hours with that 1 character is because permadeath didn't exist so obviously your character is going to be a large investment and thus, permadeath is not viable.

 

I personally wouldn't play an MMORPG where your character wasn't an investment. But, again, this goes back to the immersion factor for me.

Also.... Disconnect, character dead. Lag, character dead. One other idiot effs up, lags, D/C's.... dead. Mmmm, no thanks. Content would have to be so awesome.

  handlewithcare

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/14
Posts: 329

2/23/14 1:53:21 PM#14
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

you get a hundred lives in trails of ascention so its not that scary.

  Forgrimm

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 653

2/23/14 2:09:27 PM#15
For basic, time-killer games like Realm of the Mad God, permadeath is fine. For a traditional mmo, where people are investing literally hundreds of hours in a single character, it has no place. I don't care if you give each character 1000 lives, it will just lead to extreme risk aversion. I remember when LoTRO came out, people were going so far as to not group with other people during the early levels because they wanted to get the Undying title, and didnt want to take a chance getting killed because of someone else's dumb mistake.
  eindinbloch

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 59

2/23/14 2:12:38 PM#16
Permadeath could definitely work in an MMO if they made the game less about some arbitrary experience/level/skill progression and more about the world you live in.  Give the game a bit of historical timeline, then permadeath would fit in to the actual mechanics and feel of the game.
  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6176

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/23/14 2:19:26 PM#17

I don't feel permadeath fits a MMORPG.

My challenge and I'd say honostly is to gimp myself. Nope I don't set myself up for pvp gimped. But PVE wise I want to know how long I can continue with this level 10 armor when I am already nearing level 20 myself as just a minor example.

Because most armor or weapon stats just let me feel as if I am just playing a hack&slash online game with hardly any challenging PVE to go after world wise. MMORPG's is the only genre where the game doesn't dictate me how to play my role so I can if I choose make my own experiance more chalenging an with more danger but am afraid most don't want to find their own challenge/danger unless the game forces them to.

I am not against better punishment upon death in a MMORPG, but perma death is a no go for me.

 

 

 

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2532

2/23/14 2:28:59 PM#18
If you want permadeath in a game, simply delete the character when it dies.  Voila.
  MMOman101

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1216

2/23/14 3:04:44 PM#19
Originally posted by GimiZigi
Originally posted by Thorkune
I wouldn't even install a permadeath game. But, that's just me...

 

What's funny is permadeath isn't even a new concept. We've all played mario brothers when we were younger. Practically every console game we played had it. Why not put that in mmorpg's?

It does not fit with the payment model, that is why.

 

I wish people would understand that MMOs are different than SP games, and just because something works in one does not mean it should work in the other.  Additionally, you should confuse your opinion with good game design or business. 

  Octagon7711

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 800

Devs please nerf paper it's overpowered I'm rock which is fine scissors are fine.

2/23/14 3:23:28 PM#20

Top five games with permadeath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-pamSco22E

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