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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] EverQuest Next: Smedley, the Sandbox, and Online Society

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111 posts found
  msgnomer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/04
Posts: 2

2/13/14 12:44:42 PM#41
Originally posted by Spawnblade
I still don't understand why SOE, when finally deciding to go full sandbox, thought that stepping away from realism was the answer.  "Let's simplify our combat system, not even hint at PvP, and transform all our formerly-realistic character designs into cartoons!"  Immersion is the biggest ingredient for a successful sandbox, yet they seem to be making decisions that destroy that immersion.

I remain mystified myself, and I haven't seen any statement from SOE regarding why they chose to make such a style departure.  I still think it looks like a Lucas Arts adventure game or a teen-age Free Realms.  For many of us, graphics are the most important aspect of immersion.  Other aspects of the game are important for challenge or entertainment, but graphics are a huge part of immersion.  This is even more important in a game where players are expected to create much of their own content.  

While any art style can be potentially immersive, if you happen to respond to realistic character graphics like I do, then you appear to be out of luck with EQN and Landmark.  For the record, I also found WOW graphics immersive and the caracters were cartoonish, but not puffy faced/big eyed cute.   Still keeping an eye on the game as it has some interesting features.

Regarding the sandbox idea.  I like freedom in a game and have always been an explorer, quester, and crafter, rather than heavy into combat and leveling.  Even so, I'm leery of a game with too much dependance on players to generate the games content.  There's no question there are players capable of creating great content, but the opposite is also true, and a player wanting to experience the content has to wade through both.  There's something to be said for professionally created encounters.  This in my case,  means interesting storylines and quest conversations, something I don't see being talked about much.

  msgnomer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/04
Posts: 2

2/13/14 12:45:51 PM#42
Originally posted by Octagon7711
So he's talking about making the game into Second Life.
 

LOL, that was my first thought too.  Expect SOE has a lot of catching up to do.  

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

2/13/14 1:05:26 PM#43
I'm much more interested in someone making a sandpark.  I'll take a good themepark over a good sandbox anyday.  I'm interested in being entertained, not doing the entertaining and enjoying content designed by professionals who have been trained is more likely to appeal to me more often than not than content created sporadically by joe schmoe gamer.

  Raxxo82

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 139

Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window.-Steve Wozniak

2/13/14 1:13:46 PM#44
Originally posted by severius

Once upon a time a number of rocking devs migrated from working on the granddaddy of mmorpgs, Ultima Online (the first successful mmo and it was a sandbox, gee imagine that) to work on a title that would become the epitome of sandboxes, Star Wars Galaxies.

How unique a title!  Every item was made by the players and rarely were there two identical items.  There were tailors, there were people who did nothing but hunt for, and set up extractors on, the very best of material spawns in the game world.  Something which had to be repeated because resources would shift quality and amount forcing miners to pick up everything and move.  The guild I was in, TPE, our city on Naboo.  My God the planning that went into that.  First just the coordination between our American and Euro players had us set up with relays to ensure that Jebu could get to the spot we had picked out expediently (there were a limit to the number of cities you could place on a planet).  The way that town was laid out, we had better organization to our town than the devs did with their npc cities lol.

We hosted tournaments, our crafters had sales and give aways that would have a hundred players lined up waiting for their turn.  Every house was placed with care and attention to detail.  We even had houses set up for future guildies to move in without having to go through the hassle of finding a spot that didn't mess up the design.

Hell, it was so indepth that people basically apprenticed under great crafters to learn how to make things like the Fatal-One- Fancypants FWG-5's, with the apprentice becoming masters like Bzzt.

Not only was it a complete sandbox, but there were little theme parks with quest lines, nifty rewards and it all tied in to the timeline of the game exquisitely.

Was the game perfect?  Well I am sure that anyone that got hunted by a pack of gurrecks or sat in the basement of a locked bunker with people throwing mind poisons through walls, doors and floors to kill you would say far from it.  

Rather than FIX the problems that they created by forcing out individuals like Raph Koster they, SOE, continued to make things worse.  When I had been disconnected from the server for the last time as I sat there with a dozen other creature handlers playing with our pets and saying goodbye bugs from launch were still present.

What was Smedley's idea?  NO ONE WANTS TO BE UNCLE BEN OR AUNT BERU.  THAT ISN'T STAR WARSY.  EVERYONE WANTS TO BE LUKE OR HAN.

Destroy the sand box to force a themepark over the top of it.

Eff Smedley

Eff SOE.

So, after what a decade, you now want to sing a different story?

To no one but a fraud and liar is "I would have done things differently" equitable to an apology or the taking of responsibility.

 

 

So what your saying is that SoE and Smedley hurt you so deep that you wish you never had played the game at all?

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1458

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/13/14 1:15:22 PM#45
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
I don't know how anyone can believe a word this guys says.  Sony is not in good shape right now, credit rating junk, sold off PC division , closing games, projected a $20 billion profit for '13 turns out it's going to be a $1billion loss.  If EQN flops soe  and smedly won't have the resources or the green light to make this carrot he is hanging out in from of all there ex swg players.  

 Your right about one thing "talk is cheap". But you see... the thing is...

There is an Alpha right now, rightly or wrongly you can purchase access (according to your financial analysis SOE is not being greedy for selling alpha access, they are in dire need of the funding). It has no NDA, information is freely available. The alpha is a lot of fun, the engine is amazing, it's a lot more then talk. There is nothing but enthusiasm and optimism from people playing the alpha.

It's just simply well made and fun and the real potential (not pipe dreams) just smacks you in the face.

I don't know if Sony repossessed your family farm or something? You sure seem to have some sort of axe to grind.

Is Sony going to fold? About as much chance of that as GE, or Nestle folding.  Will Sony close the doors on SOE? Na... if they want out , they'll sell the division and someone would snap it up.

I haven't experienced a more promising MMORPG since I played WoW  beta. 

 

Not sure how posting facts about the current state of Sony is an ax to grind or have anything to do with my family, farm (not a farmer) etc etc. I didn't say anything bad about eqn no need to get all defensive.  All I stated is IF eqn flops Smedly won't get the ok to make the sandbox for all the swg vets I.e carrot.  

So settle down I'm not attacking your little groudbreaking, greatest thing since wow, promising game.  Just put out some facts sorry they didn't make you feel all tingling inside. 

The sky is falling.... The sky is falling.... 

 

k dude

Well I see you realize how ridiculous your prior post was so you deleted it from the chain.  Well I didn't mean to upset you buddy, just providing a few facts to the discussion.  Might want to learn how to handle facts that you don't like a little better.  

Na... my prior post was quoted just above yours, reader's have already seen it a couple times. I will paste it back in to appease you and so everyone can once again read how ridiculous my prior post was, These chains do tend to get quite large.

cheers

 

 

 

 

Zenimax kicked my dog

  Octagon7711

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 379

Devs please nerf paper it's overpowered I'm rock which is fine scissors are fine.

2/13/14 1:17:59 PM#46
Originally posted by msgnomer
Originally posted by Octagon7711
So he's talking about making the game into Second Life.
 

LOL, that was my first thought too.  Expect SOE has a lot of catching up to do.  

Yep, they are building it like Mindcraft, talking about it like it's Second Life, yet using Eve as the example of how it will be.  

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1458

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/13/14 1:35:25 PM#47
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
I don't know how anyone can believe a word this guys says.  Sony is not in good shape right now, credit rating junk, sold off PC division , closing games, projected a $20 billion profit for '13 turns out it's going to be a $1billion loss.  If EQN flops soe  and smedly won't have the resources or the green light to make this carrot he is hanging out in from of all there ex swg players.  

 Your right about one thing "talk is cheap". But you see... the thing is...

There is an Alpha right now, rightly or wrongly you can purchase access (according to your financial analysis SOE is not being greedy for selling alpha access, they are in dire need of the funding). It has no NDA, information is freely available. The alpha is a lot of fun, the engine is amazing, it's a lot more then talk. There is nothing but enthusiasm and optimism from people playing the alpha.

It's just simply well made and fun and the real potential (not pipe dreams) just smacks you in the face.

I don't know if Sony repossessed your family farm or something? You sure seem to have some sort of axe to grind.

Is Sony going to fold? About as much chance of that as GE, or Nestle folding.  Will Sony close the doors on SOE? Na... if they want out , they'll sell the division and someone would snap it up.

I haven't experienced a more promising MMORPG since I played WoW  beta. 

 

Not sure how posting facts about the current state of Sony is an ax to grind or have anything to do with my family, farm (not a farmer) etc etc. I didn't say anything bad about eqn no need to get all defensive.  All I stated is IF eqn flops Smedly won't get the ok to make the sandbox for all the swg vets I.e carrot.  

So settle down I'm not attacking your little groudbreaking, greatest thing since wow, promising game.  Just put out some facts sorry they didn't make you feel all tingling inside. 

The sky is falling.... The sky is falling.... 

 

k dude

Well I see you realize how ridiculous your prior post was so you deleted it from the chain.  Well I didn't mean to upset you buddy, just providing a few facts to the discussion.  Might want to learn how to handle facts that you don't like a little better.  

Na... my prior post was quoted just above yours, reader's have already seen it a couple times. I will paste it back in to appease you and so everyone can once again read how ridiculous my prior post was, These chains do tend to get quite large.

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Oh your one of those guys that copy/paste the same post on every thread...got it thanks.  

Post history tells all

 

We'll have to pewpew another day

Zenimax kicked my dog

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1925

May the game be ever in your favor.

2/13/14 1:54:54 PM#48
I want to like EQN: Landmark so much, but from all of the screenshots I have seen of player created content I can't get past the fact that everything that players have made looks like toy sets put together... It's very LEGO feeling, and for me, it does ruin the immersion.

Smile

  knox1711

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/29/06
Posts: 35

2/13/14 2:49:49 PM#49

Yes, games like TOR can never, ever keep their themeparks full of new stuff at the rate of player burn through.   It is so  obvious.  Damon Schubert wrote in a blog post about a year before release that TOR/BW understood that making a star wars game into a pure themepark would be a disaster, because it would waste the richness of a mythos where players would want to login in, interact in a community, and just "live" in the space.  He PROMISED a game that would take the best of the themepark model and sandbox model, along with a FOCUS on community.  I am STILL waiting for that game.  A beloved IP where the ink is dry on the mythos.  Themepark and sandbox community building elements, such as player housing, player cities, and in game meta systems.  And then BW turned around and made a damn pure themepark game anyway.  And it crashed and burned.  One of the WORST things about the game is that servers are essentially interchangeable...players MAKE NO mark on their world.  Nothing converys ownership and a long term feeling of attachment like "owning" a piece of the world.

 

Now, before smedley destroyed SWG, or at least SWGs unrealized potential, with the NGE, SWG did several things right along the lines of what he is talking about now.  It had interrelated systems that made MADE the playerbase rely on each other and MADE different playstyles really valuable.  Entertainers, crafters, resource gatherers all had a SIGNIFICANT place role and value in the game.  In games like TOR, unless you are doing quests, or raids, what is there to do????  Nothing much.  No social aspects.  NONE. 

 

The other thing SWG got right was player cities, the mayor system, and Player city pvp GCW bases.  These were strokes of genius that could have been truly brilliant if refined.  The best times in that game were making your own community, nourishing the crafters that made people want to come to your city, and then defending your city from invaders, or attacking neighboring cities.  It was great.  And it was all PLAYER driven.  Now, it wasn't perfect, and later they came up with good ways to get rid of dead housing...but the player city landscape made servers FEEL different, look different, and play different.  Players could own part of the world and impact it.  Most games today have completely lost that concept.  Too bad EQ Next will still be a crap generic fantasy MMO with no solid IP behind it... 

  Vivasvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/07
Posts: 374

2/13/14 2:52:32 PM#50
All talk heard it all before.

The game he spoke of about in 1997 is called EQ1.

It's the game people still want to divulge in.

Not minecraft EQ.

Oh and raiding is a must In some form. A world of adventure with raids like EQ haf
  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 401

2/13/14 2:53:27 PM#51

The word sandbox gets thrown around so much these days it doesn't even have meaning to me anymore. Everyone seems to think their game is sandbox gameplay and delivers exactly what every other MMO does.

It's a mythical term from a day of gaming long gone where the game was so devoid of content and quests (Asheron's Call: here's your sword, go kill mobs. DAOC: here's your sword, go kill mobs, here's 2 quests per level) that you needed to invent your own fun thus giving birth to the whole idea of sandbox MMOs.

  Vivasvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/07
Posts: 374

2/13/14 2:59:16 PM#52
Smed lets make this simple. People want EQ1 again. They want content and adventure and raids but they don't want it easy for a 5yr old.

World of Warcraft is popular due to content. It's only becoming unpopular because they made the game so easy people left.

The EQ1 formula and wow formula is what people want.

11 million people is what you would love to have.

People loved eq1 and wow because it had adventure and content that was challenging.

As soon as wow made it simple they lost 5 million players.

Do what you will.
  Katilla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 640

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

2/13/14 3:28:12 PM#53

it's not that many companies are not trying the sandbox route, it's that when they do, they make them with open world pvp with usually player looting, which turns people like me off to the whole game.

For some reason they do not see fit to include PVE servers, nor the PVE community that enjoys sandbox games without the fear of getting ganked and looted and having to start all over again.

  natuxatu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/12/03
Posts: 1374

Bookah

2/13/14 3:47:48 PM#54
I'd pay to buy an alpha/beta key for EverQuest Next, hope Sony is listening. I have no interest though in EverQuest Next: Landmark. 

  Juaks

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/04
Posts: 275

2/13/14 3:55:51 PM#55

I am not a fan of the art direction of EQ NEXT but I am very excited about the sand box element coming recently in some games like ARMA modes, DAYZ SA, Dark Desert, EQ landmark etc..

I think Sand box will be the real trend of next gen online gaming.

  Victor_Kruger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 210

2/13/14 4:03:52 PM#56
Originally posted by Vivasvan
Smed lets make this simple. People want EQ1 again. They want content and adventure and raids but they don't want it easy for a 5yr old.

World of Warcraft is popular due to content. It's only becoming unpopular because they made the game so easy people left.

The EQ1 formula and wow formula is what people want.

11 million people is what you would love to have.

People loved eq1 and wow because it had adventure and content that was challenging.

As soon as wow made it simple they lost 5 million players.

Do what you will.

Disagree there is a lot of people burnt out on the EQ/WoW themepark and are looking for something that is not WoW again. SOE is going to try the Sandbox route because what is old is new again.

Pantheon Online is the game you want to help get kick started but the interest for that kind of game is not as great as you think it is.

  docminus2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/04/13
Posts: 132

2/13/14 4:08:35 PM#57

One might not agree on all with Smedley, but he is bringing up some valid points, discussable or not.

He's explanation is why I think TESO will fair well for a while, but then suffer the same problem as most modern MMOs. A shame.

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1162

2/13/14 4:22:27 PM#58
With the immaturiy of mmorpg players these days, I doubt something like EQN is going to actually work. Especally if it allows free open pvp, too many fat kids in their mom's basement who are cowards and run from a fight vs anyone who can actually fight back.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1162

2/13/14 4:23:17 PM#59
Originally posted by docminus2

One might not agree on all with Smedley, but he is bringing up some valid points, discussable or not.

He's explanation is why I think TESO will fair well for a while, but then suffer the same problem as most modern MMOs. A shame.

 

Its more the fact they make the new content far to easy. at first it should be brutally hard so only the elite can do it, then steadly lower the diffculty so the casual scrubs can do it.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Victor_Kruger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 210

2/13/14 4:27:49 PM#60
Originally posted by Siveria
With the immaturiy of mmorpg players these days, I doubt something like EQN is going to actually work. Especally if it allows free open pvp, too many fat kids in their mom's basement who are cowards and run from a fight vs anyone who can actually fight back.

Your posts are coming off as immature, something to think about before calling other players immature. Force pvp is something they are not doing, it will be either a flagging system like SWG or separate servers.

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