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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » SOE is heading in the direction of Eve (And that means open world PVP!)

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333 posts found
  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

2/13/14 12:48:48 PM#61
Originally posted by Rusque

What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 

EVE is a media darling despite being a pile. And people love to talk about EVE's pvp system. That's all EVE is! There is no other game in EVE. It's just PvP game with grinding materials the rest of the time. And you know what PvPers like to do? PvP. Hence the astronomical success of MOBA's and Shooters.

And no, EVE does not have "meaningful pvp" nor does is have a "player run game" because there is nothing else in the game to do. The entire game is predicated upon grinding mats to build ships to then subsequently lose them in a battle. Does sisyphus ring a bell here?

There's a small contingent of players who like the grind to PvP playstyle and I'm glad you enjoy it, but I hope EQN doesn't choose to make the entire game PvP focused, that'll be a shame.

I don't think bringing up Sisyphus in this crowd is going to get you very far, lol.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1551

2/13/14 12:50:00 PM#62
Originally posted by raapnaap
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I actually think it will be open world pvp, but, not in EQnext.

I think it's for the new zombie apocalypse game that SOE is making. The game that he welcomed all old SWG players back for. That game is most likely what he is referring to.

EQnext is a PvE priority, but sure, pvp servers will most likely be there.

 

Whichever game gets the proper EVE-style sandbox approach, is the game myself and the rest of my gaming community will jump to. There are too few games in that genre that aren't complete trash, the best ones being EVE itself and Darkfall. People that enjoy these games have been hoping for years now that something decent comes along, but so few companies know how to make this type of game.

Age Of Wushu/Wulin is very much set up like EvE.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/09/choose-my-adventure-saying-goodbye-to-age-of-wushu/

The European version of the game is not run the same way as the North American version. We in Europe have the upper hand where how the devs run both version of the same game.

Age Of Wulin= European version.

http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/age-of-wushu/

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  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

2/13/14 2:03:26 PM#63
Originally posted by Rusque

What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 

EVE is a media darling despite being a pile. And people love to talk about EVE's pvp system. That's all EVE is! There is no other game in EVE. It's just PvP game with grinding materials the rest of the time. And you know what PvPers like to do? PvP. Hence the astronomical success of MOBA's and Shooters.

And no, EVE does not have "meaningful pvp" nor does is have a "player run game" because there is nothing else in the game to do. The entire game is predicated upon grinding mats to build ships to then subsequently lose them in a battle. Does sisyphus ring a bell here?

One could just as easily say that the entire PvE game of WoW is predicated on raiding for gear to do more raids for more gear.  Doesn't sound that different when put that way; the grind is maintained through planned obsolescence rather than destruction, but it's still grinding for the sake of more grinding.

Of course there's more to it if you care to look.  But one doesn't look when the goal is to bash.  Same can also be said of Eve:  there is more to do than just PvP if you care to look - though it does require noting that "pvp can happen any time' isn't the same as 'pvp all the time' (and I'll admit some of it is pretty flat - but 'flat' is not the same as 'not there.')  Also,  there's more ways to fund the PvP than just by grinding.

EVE is a media darling because it stands out in a sea of sameness.  And it thrives financially without grasping for the tens-of-millions of players everyone else thinks an MMO needs (which I suspect is the part that appeals most to Smedley.)

There's a small contingent of players who like the grind to PvP playstyle and I'm glad you enjoy it, but I hope EQN doesn't choose to make the entire game PvP focused, that'll be a shame.

I'll give you that much.  If only because doing so will flood the game with EQ PvE'rs crying over the loss of their beloved IP.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

2/13/14 3:16:33 PM#64
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by KaitarBesh

PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.

 

And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

Most do but not all, Age Of Wushu had 20 million players at it's peak and now it's still up in the mid teen millions. I'm an avid PVPer but i also like PVP and Age Of Wushu is for me the best out there, some features of the game have never been seen in any mmo to date.

But yes i'm in agreement with you 99%

 

I actually do because it divides the community. I think the whole pvp/pve player separation needs to go away. If they are making server migration open then that kind of sets things up like tram/fel UO which at least is a step in the right direction which is great but in the end these special segregated areas need to go away completely. And please don't label me solely as a pvp player, I have raided literally with the best of them and I enjoy leveling alts / doing quests and other pve related content as well. I'm advocating the freedom for players to make their own choices and not be locked into having to be A or B. Once someone puts out a well made game with an extreme amount of player freedom we will finally see that "next gen" mmo everyone has been whispering about over the last few years. It seems to me like SOE has caught on but who really knows until we see the final product.
  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1143

2/13/14 3:22:40 PM#65
Seems like they wanna kill the game before it even comes out! great job SoE. I hate open pvp because the playerbase today si too damn immature for it, its going to be nothing but some high lv asshat ganking lv 2-5's all day, mostly the fat people who need to feel good about themselves by being a dick to people in games. I don't get why games need open gankfest pvping, its no fun, and only cowards attack people who cannot fight back fairly. Most of these gankers are cowards, they will run the very second someone even remotely close to their level shows up since they know all they can do is gank lowbies and can't fight worth shit vs someone who can actually fight back. I see this all the time in these open world pvp games, and its exactly why most of them are dysimal failues. IMO the only reason eve is even remotely success is not because of its gameplay (cuz really it sucks all you do is click menus all day). Its because they can advance their char without actually playing the game. I gaurnette if eve didn't have this feature it would have closed down years ago.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1143

2/13/14 3:30:59 PM#66
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by KaitarBesh

PVP enthusiasts don't seem to realize there are plenty of FFA PVP MMORPG games out there.

 

And all of them tank pretty badly, or at least do very poorly compared to their PVE MMORPG cousins. Including Eve. Eve has a niche player base, but the majority of MMO players pvp -casually- if at all. SOE knows this. They aren't going to railroad themselves into having 200-300k players at most just to please a few griefer happy PVP FFAs on MMORPG.com, no matter how badly they want it.

Most do but not all, Age Of Wushu had 20 million players at it's peak and now it's still up in the mid teen millions. I'm an avid PVPer but i also like PVP and Age Of Wushu is for me the best out there, some features of the game have never been seen in any mmo to date.

But yes i'm in agreement with you 99%

 

I actually do because it divides the community. I think the whole pvp/pve player separation needs to go away. If they are making server migration open then that kind of sets things up like tram/fel UO which at least is a step in the right direction which is great but in the end these special segregated areas need to go away completely. And please don't label me solely as a pvp player, I have raided literally with the best of them and I enjoy leveling alts / doing quests and other pve related content as well. I'm advocating the freedom for players to make their own choices and not be locked into having to be A or B. Once someone puts out a well made game with an extreme amount of player freedom we will finally see that "next gen" mmo everyone has been whispering about over the last few years. It seems to me like SOE has caught on but who really knows until we see the final product.

Easy solution: remove any pvp earnable gear, make the best pvp gear be the best pve raid gear, step 2: Make it so getting pked doesn't hurt the player much (like rising force online where its more of an annoyence than anything else) Do not let gankers profit from ganking lower levels. Daoc did it best, you had yoru safe zones then a large open zone where the other 2 factions are ffa for you, give some incentive to get people to lv there, like higher exp giving monsters, or better quest or something to get pve players to go in. In this day and age a open pvp game just doesn't work, the large portion of the market is casuals that just get annoyed by that.

Pvp players today also are too immature to handle a open pvp game properly anymore. 99% of "pvpers" don't know what real pvp is, because they just gank lowbies that can't fight back in the games they play if it has open pvp. To me pvp is a fight between 2 roughly equil individuals. In rising force online I used to go to the other races zones (it was open pvp), but i'd not attack any lowbies unless they got on my nerves.. Why? 1: they aren't really worth the points and 2: I am waiting for someone worth fighting to come out and play.

The main reason devs keep the 2 seperated is like I said, the immaturity of the player base. why give an ass the option to repeadly kill a new player to the point the new player just gets fed up since they can't progress then just quits? thats one less customer for the dev team (it happens alot more than you think it would trust me). This is the prime reason why open pvp mmo's usually fail.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Victor_Kruger

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 192

2/13/14 3:39:08 PM#67
Originally posted by Siveria
Seems like they wanna kill the game before it even comes out! great job SoE. I hate open pvp because the playerbase today si too damn immature for it, its going to be nothing but some high lv asshat ganking lv 2-5's all day, mostly the fat people who need to feel good about themselves by being a dick to people in games. I don't get why games need open gankfest pvping, its no fun, and only cowards attack people who cannot fight back fairly. Most of these gankers are cowards, they will run the very second someone even remotely close to their level shows up since they know all they can do is gank lowbies and can't fight worth shit vs someone who can actually fight back. I see this all the time in these open world pvp games, and its exactly why most of them are dysimal failues. IMO the only reason eve is even remotely success is not because of its gameplay (cuz really it sucks all you do is click menus all day). Its because they can advance their char without actually playing the game. I gaurnette if eve didn't have this feature it would have closed down years ago.

Nice stereo typing of people is this rant.

They going to have separate servers or mechanics in the game that wont force pvp on players.

Eve keeps people playing because what you do in the game matters and can effect and change on what is going on inside the game. When two powerful alliances go too war its not meaningless and changes the economy, opens opportunities for others to exploit and has a impact that you don't get in themepark games.

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/13/14 5:32:22 PM#68

Refreshing this part for those who missed it:

 

Me:

@j_smedley love the blog. is SOE heading in that direction for PVP too? When will we learn more about that? Fingers crossed.

https://twitter.com/sir_bidwood/status/433731419118915584

Smedley:

@sir_bidwood yes

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/433747908907651072

 

It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

I really believe based on what Smedley has said that it will be like Eve Online with some "safer" zones, but the possibility of PVP happening anywhere at any time.

 

  Arglebargle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1053

2/13/14 6:08:13 PM#69
I think it'd be a bad idea for them to embrace this full on.  No one has solved the sociopathic pvper problem yet.  My gaming group wouldn't touch it.  The most adament anti-pvp voices there are from the players who worked as GM/CS on online MMOs.  They've had their fill of dealing with that small percentage of disturbed personalities who flock to such games, and try desperatly to ruin it for everyone they meet. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 793

2/13/14 7:37:58 PM#70
Originally posted by Bidwood

It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

Where did they say players can freely move between servers? This is possible in Landmark by design, but don't remember it being announced for EQN.

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 615

2/13/14 7:41:53 PM#71
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
(and before anyone says I'm being negative... I just gave ol Smedley much more credit in one post than I have at any time for many many years... I am trying to be positive. I still don't trust him, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this time.)

You can always trust Smedley to go where he thinks the money is.  (Whether it's actually there or not is another story.)

The reason I am hopeful in this case, is that he does seem to sincerely believe in the economics of the concept.  (That said, if the forecast doesn't pan out as planned, don't expect much longevity.)

And for Smedley that is indeed a refreshing change of direction.

Omg... I can't believe I just said that about the Smedley...


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  KaitarBesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 207

2/13/14 7:45:00 PM#72
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Bidwood

It won't be separate servers because people can move freely between servers. That only makes sense to me if you can't bring any of your resources to another server, as that would screw up the economy in the main game.

Where did they say players can freely move between servers? This is possible in Landmark by design, but don't remember it being announced for EQN.

They haven't announced ANYTHING of the sort for EQN AT ALL.

This dude is grasping at straws. Again, they were VERY RECENTLY asking at Roundtable about what TYPES of servers people wanted. MOST PEOPLE said RP OR PVE. The roundtable response was they would definitely have DIFFERENT TYPES OF SERVERS and wanted people to give them specific info on "out of the box" thinking on what types of servers players would really like to see.

So no. You can take the FFA PVP across the board and stick it up your nose, because it's just not going to happen. They'd alienate more than half their player base/EQ fans. There will be PVP servers, possibly of several "kinds", but there will also be other types of servers, such as RP, PVE, and who knows what else since they're asking people to come up with specific ideas that the devs will consider.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6w1BGsgLjQ

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/13/14 8:11:30 PM#73
the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.
  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 793

2/13/14 8:23:18 PM#74
Originally posted by Bidwood
the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

Where are you getting that? Saying he likes EVE or FPS or MOBAs doesn't equate to EQN = OW FFA PVP. I do think PVP or conflict in general will have more substance in EQN, but not forced down anyone's throat or either accept it or don't play. They seem to want everyone to play EQN, not only a particular group of players. MMORPG PVPers are not the same as FPS-MOBA-EVE PVPers.

I'm a huge fan of PVP, but I'm not seeing what you are. I get the feeling that EQN isn't something he would actually play from his AMA answers and some of his other comments. He seems to dislike PVE and sticks to FPS type stuff.

  KaitarBesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 207

2/14/14 6:37:22 AM#75
Originally posted by Bidwood
the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

 

BTW, uhm, roundtables have a direct relation to the development of the game. All you have to do is listen to their roundtable video responses. They wouldn't BOTHER asking if they weren't trying to see what direction the potential players want the game to go. If they ignore their potential players, guess what? They get no customers. You might, kiddo, also be interested to know that "no special server type" and "roleplay server" do not = OH LET'S MAKE PVE SERVERS SPECIALITY TYPE. Those two server types, which got more than half the votes combined, are generally PVE type servers (the RP server with RP ruleset). The last option "special server type" got a small amount of votes, as did PVP server type. So no, if anything, PVP servers will be a "speciality type" because they do not hold the popularity of PVE or RP server types with the crowd that is interested in EQN.

So yeah, you're grasping at straws in your fanatic tiny hope for FFA PVP. It's not going to happen. There will be PVP severs. SOE is just not stupid enough to alienate almost 70% of their player base and lose a huge chunk of profit so a few pvp kiddies can go grief each other and newbies endlessly until the game is a ghost town like, oh, pretty much every MMO that has FFA PVP out there. Eve really DOES NOT have a great population number. They may take some inspiration from parts of it, but I highly doubt SOE wants this to be a niche game with only 200k players.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7026

2/14/14 6:45:07 AM#76
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Bidwood
the only way there will be "pve" servers is if they are specialty servers. the vanilla game is clearly being designed from the ground up with pvp in mind based on what Smedley has said.

btw, round table polls don't tell you much about what the devs are doing. they just do them to get a sense of what the EQ community is thinking.

Where are you getting that? Saying he likes EVE or FPS or MOBAs doesn't equate to EQN = OW FFA PVP. I do think PVP or conflict in general will have more substance in EQN, but not forced down anyone's throat or either accept it or don't play. They seem to want everyone to play EQN, not only a particular group of players. MMORPG PVPers are not the same as FPS-MOBA-EVE PVPers.

I'm a huge fan of PVP, but I'm not seeing what you are. I get the feeling that EQN isn't something he would actually play from his AMA answers and some of his other comments. He seems to dislike PVE and sticks to FPS type stuff.

It only makes since. There's pvp going on in landmark, and there not even combat. 

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 295

2/14/14 6:46:21 AM#77

Calm down guys, this is really simple.

He will have open world pvp but not in EQnext (unless its on pvp servers). His open world PvP will be for his new zombie apocalypse game. Just like they have open world pvp in DayZ, Rust etc...

He's probably laughing his head off at all the trolls trying to justify his comments to mean EQN.

Guys, think zombies, DayZ, Rust etc... etc... and you are 100% right!

 

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

2/14/14 6:48:37 AM#78

In my opinion SWG handled the PVP question almost perfectly. Open World PVP if you wanted it and the ability to op out if you didn't. The ability to build special PvP resources which could be defended / attacked. Basically it managed to handle the best of both worlds PvE and PvP.

So I am really hoping for something similar in EQN.

 

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/14/14 7:28:45 AM#79
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

Calm down guys, this is really simple.

He will have open world pvp but not in EQnext (unless its on pvp servers). His open world PvP will be for his new zombie apocalypse game. Just like they have open world pvp in DayZ, Rust etc...

He's probably laughing his head off at all the trolls trying to justify his comments to mean EQN.

Guys, think zombies, DayZ, Rust etc... etc... and you are 100% right!

 

"Calm down" is right. I have my theories, but no need for anyone to get fired up over them. Do my theories feel threatening because they could be true? Everybody take a deep breath...

I'm not trolling. I think I'm actually playing into SOE's marketing comms strategy, which seems to be to get people to come to their own conclusions about the PVP based on nuggets of info here and there. As opposed to being flabbergasted when the official announcement comes out. But it looks like that's going to happen anyway.

I was right about this coming to PS4 despite a ton of scepticism and similar counter-arguments. (Which really boiled down to "I don't want that, and it's not how things have been done before, therefore SOE would never be stupid enough to do that.")

BTW, where did we hear his new IP would be a zombie apocalypse game? Is that the one that will appeal to SWG Players? I like the sound of this...

  SoulTrapOnSelf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/13
Posts: 195

2/14/14 7:31:04 AM#80
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