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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] EverQuest Next: Smedley, the Sandbox, and Online Society

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108 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7642

2/13/14 11:03:03 AM#21
Originally posted by Knytta
Well those of us who remember pen & paper RPGs also remember that TSR never pid the DMs that wrote their own adventures. And Smedley is right there needs to be a change to more of a virtual world. It might be very hard to pull off but I am exited that they are trying.

The thing that is exciting to me is that they have a vehicle that just might be able  to deliver. 

  victorbjr

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 165

2/13/14 11:06:36 AM#22
Originally posted by jpaprocki

Let me see if I understand this correctly; Sony wants players to build content, stories, whatever for other players and pay sony to do it?  So basically they will provide the engine and tools to do it and it's up to the players to provide the content.    Just how much does Sony expect one to pay to do the work for them?

 

You're using the wrong terminology and mindset, I'd think.

 

They're giving us tools to create our own virtual experiences in a world we can shape and influence with enough dedication and perseverance. It's a sandbox. You have a world (the box with sand), the tools to build stuff (equivalent to a pail and shovel in real-world thoughts), and you're tasked with just being free to have fun. 

 

Right now, early access is there to help shape the game and iron out the kinks. I'm not completely sold on some games having early access, but it seems they have the long term goal of building EQnext on the foundation and tech of Landmark.

 

The game is functional enough to enjoy, but only if you have the mindset that you create the fun experiences you have in the game with the tools available. Eventually, there will be other systems in place such as content-driven stuff like questing and PVP, but the focus is enhancing the tools so that they can better understand the limits and possibilities of it, I'd think.

 

-Victor

A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

2/13/14 11:12:41 AM#23

I'll believe it when I see it, John.

Right now it is all talk, and people making penis monuments in Landmark.

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Setzer

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/05
Posts: 134

2/13/14 11:13:57 AM#24
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Agreed. For all the hate SOE got. I think Smed learned the lesson.

And honestly, looking back to SWG debacle. Are we forgetting the SWG was only made because of SOE ? No other company even came close to something like that

Yes, SoE once had some real creativity. Do they still? 

And while they did in fact create these classic MMOs that we all remember fondly, SoE also wrecked them. And that, is an "ability" SoE continues to demonstrate.


SOE didn't wreck SWG, LucasArts did. Let's not forget that.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7642

2/13/14 11:27:30 AM#25
Originally posted by BadSpock

I'll believe it when I see it, John.

Right now it is all talk, and people making penis monuments in Landmark.

 

Haven't seen one of those yet... "Low blow" Give it a shot. It sure surprised me. I'm kinda like a carebear now... idk.

 

https://www.eqnlandmark.com/media/playercreations

  Jupsto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 2109

2/13/14 11:34:35 AM#26
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Until very recently, anyone that expressed support or enthusiasm for "sandbox MMO's" on this site was ridiculed on the forums.

The general opinion was that sandbox MMO's were relics from the past and had only ever failed. The detractors claimed that the audience for sandbox games was either tiny or imaginary. There was no "proof" that sandbox games had any support beyond a small crowd of sociopaths that played FFA-PVP games.

 

How times have changed...

Indeed we can thank the popularity of games very simular to sandbox mmo, such as minecraft/dayz/rust. psuedo-mmo's with concepts unpopular in the mmo space such as full loot pvp, no NPCs, etc.

What smedly is saying is nothing new to use sandbox fans, its very simular to what people have been posting for a long time.

The reason sandbox mmos have not been succeeding is largely because they are all small budget indie hopeful projects.

So someone saying what we are all thinking who is at the head of a big company like SOE is kind of a big deal.

 

My blog:

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1766

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/13/14 11:41:49 AM#27
Originally posted by BadSpock

I'll believe it when I see it, John.

Right now it is all talk, and people making penis monuments in Landmark.

 

It's a lot more than talk BadSpock and Penis monuments are very few and far between (I haven't seen one yet)

 

Your pessimism is understandable.

"If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7642

2/13/14 12:02:39 PM#28
Originally posted by Dewguy79
I don't know how anyone can believe a word this guys says.  Sony is not in good shape right now, credit rating junk, sold off PC division , closing games, projected a $20 billion profit for '13 turns out it's going to be a $1billion loss.  If EQN flops soe  and smedly won't have the resources or the green light to make this carrot he is hanging out in from of all there ex swg players.  

Idk what they are dangling, but right now, add combat to eqn:l then stand back.

 

There's a foundation here, the likes of which the genre has not seen. They have reason and room to talk atm.

 
  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

2/13/14 12:04:17 PM#29

I think Smedly must have chimed in on MMORPG's heated discussions on these topics,  he gets them right so well.

 

In FFXIV we ran out of stuff to do and lost purpsose of doing thigns in the world.   Which Ultimately made me quit the game.   Same can be said of every MMO out there that we burned though and found absolutly nothing to do afterwards but stand around in a city with nothing else rewarding to do in the game world. 

 

Smedley knows his job, he knows it well, he is a genius to read what players want expecially on forums like MMORPG.    I wish he would have KNOWN these things when EQOA as still out, and given us something more to do then Grind EYEBALLS for 5 years straight without any new camps to grind on,  it wasn't until the game was almost completely dead before he got around to putting a penny into it.

 

Thing is,  Smedley might know the PSYCHOLOGY OF THE PLAYERS really well, but he lacks the development vision to go after ALL STYLES of players.    I have yet to see a single game made by SOE that can satisfy ALL PLAYERS which he talks about doing in his great speech and accurate statements.

 

I like X kind of games, I don't like X kind of games,  I like realistic graphic, I don't like realistic graphics, I like sandbox, I dotn like sandbox, I like theme park, I don't like themepark, I like voice overs, I don't like voice overs, I like storylines, I don't like storylines, I like grinding, I don't like grinding, I like quests, I don't like quests, I like long progression, I like short progression, I like solo, I dont like solo, I like group play, I dont like group play, you get the point!   Cant please them all!

 

 

I WONT BELEIVE IT TILL I SEE IT!

 
 
 
 
  Raxxo82

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 142

Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window.-Steve Wozniak

2/13/14 12:08:00 PM#30
Even if L and N doesnt become the huge succes stories many hope and belive ( I hope ), atleast SoE is trying more than any dev team has before to listen and communicate with their players. Also they are trying to create something new and push the mmorpg genre towards uncharted terratories, as they have done before. You can hate on SoE and rant on Smedley all you want, personally Ive had hours after hours of fun in their games so far.

  Knotwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1117

2/13/14 12:30:06 PM#31
Originally posted by Raxxo82
Even if L and N doesnt become the huge succes stories many hope and belive ( I hope ), atleast SoE is trying more than any dev team has before to listen and communicate with their players. Also they are trying to create something new and push the mmorpg genre towards uncharted terratories, as they have done before. You can hate on SoE and rant on Smedley all you want, personally Ive had hours after hours of fun in their games so far.
 

I loved a lot of past SOE games, the problem is they have always only delivered on half a vision.   The first half, and the second half is neglected tot he point people leave the games they create.   I hate this part of SOE games the most.  When you want content and a company fails to deliver even an update or expansion that will keep that game alive for years to come, it tends to really hurt your image of a company like SOE. 

 

 

4 games shutting down, 2 major ones previously EQOA and SWG,  with no updates or new titles in those.   And the reason they are being shut down is because no content was added to the games to keep players in the game.   Its a trend I tend to hate with SOE.  I hope they give more attn. to  EQ Next Landmark and EQ Nex then they have to their past titles. 

 

 
Its already hard to trust a company that has only Halfway delivered on games so far up to date..  should we believe they changed without seeing evidence of it yet?
 
 
  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1766

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/13/14 12:46:38 PM#32
Originally posted by Dewguy79
I don't know how anyone can believe a word this guys says.  Sony is not in good shape right now, credit rating junk, sold off PC division , closing games, projected a $20 billion profit for '13 turns out it's going to be a $1billion loss.  If EQN flops soe  and smedly won't have the resources or the green light to make this carrot he is hanging out in from of all there ex swg players.  

Your right about one thing "talk is cheap". But you see... the thing is...

 

There is an Alpha right now, rightly or wrongly you can purchase access (according to your financial analysis SOE is not being greedy for selling alpha access, they are in dire need of the funding). It has no NDA, information is freely available. The alpha is a lot of fun, the engine is amazing, it's a lot more then talk. There is nothing but enthusiasm and optimism from people playing the alpha.

It's just simply well made and fun and the real potential (not pipe dreams) just smacks you in the face.

 

I don't know if Sony repossessed your family farm or something? You sure seem to have some sort of axe to grind.

Is Sony going to fold? About as much chance of that as GE, or Nestle folding.  Will Sony close the doors on SOE? Na... if they want out , they'll sell the division and someone would snap it up.

 

I haven't experienced a more promising MMORPG since I played WoW  beta. 

"If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1529

2/13/14 12:51:50 PM#33

Once upon a time a number of rocking devs migrated from working on the granddaddy of mmorpgs, Ultima Online (the first successful mmo and it was a sandbox, gee imagine that) to work on a title that would become the epitome of sandboxes, Star Wars Galaxies.

How unique a title!  Every item was made by the players and rarely were there two identical items.  There were tailors, there were people who did nothing but hunt for, and set up extractors on, the very best of material spawns in the game world.  Something which had to be repeated because resources would shift quality and amount forcing miners to pick up everything and move.  The guild I was in, TPE, our city on Naboo.  My God the planning that went into that.  First just the coordination between our American and Euro players had us set up with relays to ensure that Jebu could get to the spot we had picked out expediently (there were a limit to the number of cities you could place on a planet).  The way that town was laid out, we had better organization to our town than the devs did with their npc cities lol.

We hosted tournaments, our crafters had sales and give aways that would have a hundred players lined up waiting for their turn.  Every house was placed with care and attention to detail.  We even had houses set up for future guildies to move in without having to go through the hassle of finding a spot that didn't mess up the design.

Hell, it was so indepth that people basically apprenticed under great crafters to learn how to make things like the Fatal-One- Fancypants FWG-5's, with the apprentice becoming masters like Bzzt.

Not only was it a complete sandbox, but there were little theme parks with quest lines, nifty rewards and it all tied in to the timeline of the game exquisitely.

Was the game perfect?  Well I am sure that anyone that got hunted by a pack of gurrecks or sat in the basement of a locked bunker with people throwing mind poisons through walls, doors and floors to kill you would say far from it.  

Rather than FIX the problems that they created by forcing out individuals like Raph Koster they, SOE, continued to make things worse.  When I had been disconnected from the server for the last time as I sat there with a dozen other creature handlers playing with our pets and saying goodbye bugs from launch were still present.

What was Smedley's idea?  NO ONE WANTS TO BE UNCLE BEN OR AUNT BERU.  THAT ISN'T STAR WARSY.  EVERYONE WANTS TO BE LUKE OR HAN.

Destroy the sand box to force a themepark over the top of it.

Eff Smedley

Eff SOE.

So, after what a decade, you now want to sing a different story?

To no one but a fraud and liar is "I would have done things differently" equitable to an apology or the taking of responsibility.

 


  Arshoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/29/05
Posts: 66

2/13/14 12:55:48 PM#34
Unless there's terraforming and land ownership in EQN and not just in Landmark, I won't be interested.

If you aren't actively part of the solution, you have no right to complain about anything.

  Kilrain

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 523

2/13/14 1:18:44 PM#35
Originally posted by Ariely
Originally posted by bcbully
EQN & EQN:L puts the mmorpg ball squarely in SOE's court.
 

untill i can test it for myself i can't agree to that.

Congrats, you've just achieved "The most pointless statement of the day" award. 

professional web programming and design.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1766

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/13/14 1:19:09 PM#36
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Dewguy79
I don't know how anyone can believe a word this guys says.  Sony is not in good shape right now, credit rating junk, sold off PC division , closing games, projected a $20 billion profit for '13 turns out it's going to be a $1billion loss.  If EQN flops soe  and smedly won't have the resources or the green light to make this carrot he is hanging out in from of all there ex swg players.  

 

 

Not sure how posting facts about the current state of Sony is an ax to grind or have anything to do with my family, farm (not a farmer) etc etc. I didn't say anything bad about eqn no need to get all defensive.  All I stated is IF eqn flops Smedly won't get the ok to make the sandbox for all the swg vets I.e carrot.  

So settle down I'm not attacking your little groudbreaking, greatest thing since wow, promising game.  Just put out some facts sorry they didn't make you feel all tingling inside. 

The sky is falling.... The sky is falling.... 

 

k dude

"If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  tman5

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/24/07
Posts: 613

2/13/14 1:21:05 PM#37

I am still deeply "wait 'n see" on this but I can't ignore the irony that SOE, the company that deliberately destroyed the greatest sandbox MMO of our time, should come to the conclusion that sandbox is the future of MMOs and seek to lead the way. 

I also get the irony that many who swore they would never return to SOE but found nothing on the market deserving of their money and time, may find it necessary to reluctantly return.  And I include myself here.

  Bonez005

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/04
Posts: 36

2/13/14 1:24:38 PM#38
Originally posted by Wizardry

I don't think anyone would disagree with giving players tools and allowing a world to change or grow,but we are talking about SOE.The WAY they do things is every bit about monetary value and NOT about the game.

They changed direction because they saw the popularity of Voxels and i am sure got a really good deal on a license.Smedley gets NO credit for Voxel popularity,he was actually slow moving on it.He saw that they could probably resell the voxels license and mask it as a SOE game.They knew it wouldn't work in a real MMORPG so they decided to split it up and utilize the popular Everquest title.

Look no further than Smedley trying to spin some new game as the savior to SWG,he is all about BS marketing and not quality game design.He also changed direction because he saw the popularity of kick starters,so again an easy cash grab less cash input from SOE.

Game design has always been about investing in a game than trying to sell it,this was a massively cheaper endeavor and best of all SOE did not have to make Voxels nor did they even have to invest time making assets for a world.SUPER easy for them to auto generate a world add Voxels and sell it.

I have not researched the Voxels license but i bet it is really low,this Landmark with all the crowd funding is probably already in the green and they don't need much of a team, to work on it either so very little overhead.These are the true reasons Smedley changed direction.

 

 You just described, in detail, an intelligent, experienced businessman. Did you forget that this is a business after all? Did you know that in order to be in the business, you need to make a game that is fun enough for people to commit to? Did you know it costs money to make a game, and the more money you make/save the more successful your business is? Making intelligent choices/partnerships to achieve this goal is something to admire, because when all is said and done, if he is successful, we have an awesome game to play and support... how he does it shouldn't matter to you.

 
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

2/13/14 1:38:49 PM#39
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by BadSpock

I'll believe it when I see it, John.

Right now it is all talk, and people making penis monuments in Landmark.

It's a lot more than talk BadSpock and Penis monuments are very few and far between (I haven't seen one yet)

Your pessimism is understandable.

I hate being so pessimistic, but SOE and even Mr. Smedley himself doesn't have the best track record.

What I imagine EQN could be is quite grand.

What it will actually be?

We will see...

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Octagon7711

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 628

Devs please nerf paper it's overpowered I'm rock which is fine scissors are fine.

2/13/14 1:42:25 PM#40
So he's talking about making the game into Second Life.

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