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  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

2/11/14 5:41:56 PM#41
Originally posted by Uhwop

I particularly liked the final assessment that is made. 

To paraphrase, they expect us to play simply because it's an Elder Scrolls game; not because it's actually worth it.

So what you and the article are saying is that F2P are actually worth it and that value is...

$0.00 or nothing since they are free.  You get what you pay for then and that is nothing.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3911

2/11/14 5:44:11 PM#42
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster

I am kind of getting burnt out on F2P games, with MMORPGs like RIFT now including lock-boxes in their cash shops, it's something that is making me want a subscription MMORPG more and more.

 

The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple (hopefully this isn't breaking the NDA since I am just repeating what Bill said in his article). It doesn't hook you at all, and there's no reason for it. Why not just make the first 10 levels like the rest of the game instead of lulling me to sleep?

He didn't say the first 10 levels are boring he said they're slow. And a big part of that, IMHO is that you're getting used to all kinds of new ways of doing familiar MMO things in tdifferent ways. Some MMOs feel very much like most other MMOs you've played before and you're off an running in not time. Others take a bit longer to get the hang of...

 

That is just an excuse, plain and simple. The start of an MMORPG, like a good book, should hook the player. Most MMORPGs start out with a cool little story thing, that is actually interesting. AoC did it as did GW2 and SWTOR (and I'm not even a fan of any of those three MMOs I listed) with success.

 

TESO doesn't have an excuse for just being plain boring (sorry, "slow") the first ten levels.

It isn't...see ya after NDA drop.

Even after NDA drop you're going to be biased. I can see that pretty clearly from your post history on TESO... I realize not everyone can admit the good points and the flaws of their favorite games, but I will keep trying to do both.

I see... people who don't like it are honest. those who do are biased...gotcha.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

2/11/14 5:51:46 PM#43

Not surprised the dude wrote that review, he is a consultant for F2P games and is biased towards them. 

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NicholasLovell/20130919/200606/The_Pyramid_of_FreetoPlay_game_design.php

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1946

May the game be ever in your favor.

2/11/14 6:14:59 PM#44
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster

I am kind of getting burnt out on F2P games, with MMORPGs like RIFT now including lock-boxes in their cash shops, it's something that is making me want a subscription MMORPG more and more.

 

The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple (hopefully this isn't breaking the NDA since I am just repeating what Bill said in his article). It doesn't hook you at all, and there's no reason for it. Why not just make the first 10 levels like the rest of the game instead of lulling me to sleep?

He didn't say the first 10 levels are boring he said they're slow. And a big part of that, IMHO is that you're getting used to all kinds of new ways of doing familiar MMO things in tdifferent ways. Some MMOs feel very much like most other MMOs you've played before and you're off an running in not time. Others take a bit longer to get the hang of...

 

That is just an excuse, plain and simple. The start of an MMORPG, like a good book, should hook the player. Most MMORPGs start out with a cool little story thing, that is actually interesting. AoC did it as did GW2 and SWTOR (and I'm not even a fan of any of those three MMOs I listed) with success.

 

TESO doesn't have an excuse for just being plain boring (sorry, "slow") the first ten levels.

It isn't...see ya after NDA drop.

Even after NDA drop you're going to be biased. I can see that pretty clearly from your post history on TESO... I realize not everyone can admit the good points and the flaws of their favorite games, but I will keep trying to do both.

I see... people who don't like it are honest. those who do are biased...gotcha.

I never said I didn't like TESO. I see... People that don't like an aspect of a game must hate the whole game... gotcha.

Smile

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3911

2/11/14 6:46:49 PM#45
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster

I am kind of getting burnt out on F2P games, with MMORPGs like RIFT now including lock-boxes in their cash shops, it's something that is making me want a subscription MMORPG more and more.

 

The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple (hopefully this isn't breaking the NDA since I am just repeating what Bill said in his article). It doesn't hook you at all, and there's no reason for it. Why not just make the first 10 levels like the rest of the game instead of lulling me to sleep?

He didn't say the first 10 levels are boring he said they're slow. And a big part of that, IMHO is that you're getting used to all kinds of new ways of doing familiar MMO things in tdifferent ways. Some MMOs feel very much like most other MMOs you've played before and you're off an running in not time. Others take a bit longer to get the hang of...

 

That is just an excuse, plain and simple. The start of an MMORPG, like a good book, should hook the player. Most MMORPGs start out with a cool little story thing, that is actually interesting. AoC did it as did GW2 and SWTOR (and I'm not even a fan of any of those three MMOs I listed) with success.

 

TESO doesn't have an excuse for just being plain boring (sorry, "slow") the first ten levels.

It isn't...see ya after NDA drop.

Even after NDA drop you're going to be biased. I can see that pretty clearly from your post history on TESO... I realize not everyone can admit the good points and the flaws of their favorite games, but I will keep trying to do both.

I see... people who don't like it are honest. those who do are biased...gotcha.

I never said I didn't like TESO. I see... People that don't like an aspect of a game must hate the whole game... gotcha.

So what's the problem then? Comprehension?

 

This is what Bill Murphy said on Friday:

 

Slow to Come to Boil

ESO is a slow building MMORPG. It’s got a great intro tutorial sequence, don’t get me wrong, but it’ll be several hours before you fill up your hotbar with the meager five skills you have as active-use (until you open a second weapon at level 15).  So for a while, just like any TES game, all you’ll be doing is blocking and swinging (or firing) your weapons.  As I stated above, it wasn’t until level 10 or so when crafting, adventuring, exploring, and building my character all started to fall into place.  It’s also not the fastest game to level in. While not as slow-paced as say the original EQ, you won’t be level 50 in ESO within a week (well, most of you won’t be).  After about 12 hours of play, I’m level 10 with my character and that feels like a snail’s pace compared to other recent titles. 

 

And he's basicaly saying why it feels slow..and I agree with him.

 

But you translated that to better fit your point into boring:

"The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple "

 

When I pointed out that he never said boring, and basically said the same thing Bill said about why it feels slow, you said I was making excuses? lol

 

So you find it boring...good for you... now if you want to quote a previewer who agrees with your opinion that it's boring, go find someone else because Bill sure as hell didn't. That's not what Slow building means... slow =/= boring any more than fast = exciting. Fast can feel rushed or chaotic or confusing and yes sometimes also exciting. Slow can be enjoyable, thoughtful and interesting and yes, sometimes also boring.

 

But boring is not one of the negatives here.

 

  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

2/11/14 8:51:19 PM#46
Originally posted by Ruien

The minute there are no more sub MMO's being released, is the minute the genre loses me. Now Im not so self absorbed to think i would be missed because there will be 50 numbnuts to take my place. I just cant believe "gamers" have turned this genre into the Madden football franchise.

 

I have paid thousands of dollars into kickstarter now as a last ditch effort to show game developers and the wallets behind them, that the real gamers out there want something more substantial than the blow thru an MMO in 2 months and move on to the next game mentality. I don't need or want my hand held and I don't play games to distress or just for "fun". The MMO genre was a diamond of greatness in the EQ/daoc era.

Good for you m8.   

I agree with you entirely.

^^^^

Spot on.  some people have the attention span of a goldfish,  or as one reviewer I read put it,  "I'm not spending my valuable leisure time ...." 

Others get enjoyment from taking their time and enjoying the nuances.. in their valuable leisure time.

  User Deleted
2/11/14 9:32:08 PM#47
Originally posted by Fearum

Not surprised the dude wrote that review, he is a consultant for F2P games and is biased towards them. 

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NicholasLovell/20130919/200606/The_Pyramid_of_FreetoPlay_game_design.php

I also love how he backs his argument up by linking a review that starts off with "I am not an expert in MMORPGs – or much of a fan of them." 

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1946

May the game be ever in your favor.

2/12/14 8:16:25 AM#48
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Razeekster

I am kind of getting burnt out on F2P games, with MMORPGs like RIFT now including lock-boxes in their cash shops, it's something that is making me want a subscription MMORPG more and more.

 

The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple (hopefully this isn't breaking the NDA since I am just repeating what Bill said in his article). It doesn't hook you at all, and there's no reason for it. Why not just make the first 10 levels like the rest of the game instead of lulling me to sleep?

He didn't say the first 10 levels are boring he said they're slow. And a big part of that, IMHO is that you're getting used to all kinds of new ways of doing familiar MMO things in tdifferent ways. Some MMOs feel very much like most other MMOs you've played before and you're off an running in not time. Others take a bit longer to get the hang of...

 

That is just an excuse, plain and simple. The start of an MMORPG, like a good book, should hook the player. Most MMORPGs start out with a cool little story thing, that is actually interesting. AoC did it as did GW2 and SWTOR (and I'm not even a fan of any of those three MMOs I listed) with success.

 

TESO doesn't have an excuse for just being plain boring (sorry, "slow") the first ten levels.

It isn't...see ya after NDA drop.

Even after NDA drop you're going to be biased. I can see that pretty clearly from your post history on TESO... I realize not everyone can admit the good points and the flaws of their favorite games, but I will keep trying to do both.

I see... people who don't like it are honest. those who do are biased...gotcha.

I never said I didn't like TESO. I see... People that don't like an aspect of a game must hate the whole game... gotcha.

So what's the problem then? Comprehension?

 

This is what Bill Murphy said on Friday:

 

Slow to Come to Boil

ESO is a slow building MMORPG. It’s got a great intro tutorial sequence, don’t get me wrong, but it’ll be several hours before you fill up your hotbar with the meager five skills you have as active-use (until you open a second weapon at level 15).  So for a while, just like any TES game, all you’ll be doing is blocking and swinging (or firing) your weapons.  As I stated above, it wasn’t until level 10 or so when crafting, adventuring, exploring, and building my character all started to fall into place.  It’s also not the fastest game to level in. While not as slow-paced as say the original EQ, you won’t be level 50 in ESO within a week (well, most of you won’t be).  After about 12 hours of play, I’m level 10 with my character and that feels like a snail’s pace compared to other recent titles. 

 

And he's basicaly saying why it feels slow..and I agree with him.

 

But you translated that to better fit your point into boring:

"The problem I see with TESO is that like Bill Murphy mentioned those first 10 levels are just boring, plain and simple "

 

When I pointed out that he never said boring, and basically said the same thing Bill said about why it feels slow, you said I was making excuses? lol

 

So you find it boring...good for you... now if you want to quote a previewer who agrees with your opinion that it's boring, go find someone else because Bill sure as hell didn't. That's not what Slow building means... slow =/= boring any more than fast = exciting. Fast can feel rushed or chaotic or confusing and yes sometimes also exciting. Slow can be enjoyable, thoughtful and interesting and yes, sometimes also boring.

 

But boring is not one of the negatives here.

 

What do you even think slow means? It's basically a nice way of saying "boring." Either way, he may have said slow, I remembered one word he said wrong and replaced it with a very similar word and you went back and started a whole thing about it to "correct" me on it. 

 

You are going to hear negative feedback on games you like and should get used to it. I like TESO a lot for what it does, but yes, the first 10 levels or so are boring to me. That is my opinion and I am allowed to have it just as you are allowed to have your opinion that the first 10 levels aren't boring.

 

If you're going to crucify players for negative feedback though (or for literally remembering the word "slow" as "boring" when the two words are arguably very similar), you probably should just stay awake 24/7 because there's going to be a lot of it, especially for newer games.

Smile

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 594

2/12/14 8:20:54 AM#49

I found another 'balanced and unbiased review":

http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/why-I-hate-the-elder-scrolls-online

I suppose the title says it all.... 

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

2/12/14 9:01:32 AM#50
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Uhwop

I particularly liked the final assessment that is made. 

To paraphrase, they expect us to play simply because it's an Elder Scrolls game; not because it's actually worth it.

If wow is worth it then ESO is worth it.

Makes absolutely no sense.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

2/12/14 9:03:31 AM#51
Originally posted by muthax

I found another 'balanced and unbiased review":

http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/why-I-hate-the-elder-scrolls-online

I suppose the title says it all.... 

Atleast you didn't say its a conspiracy and this site like numerous others didn't get paid enough to give glowing reviews.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 594

2/12/14 9:50:53 AM#52
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by muthax

I found another 'balanced and unbiased review":

http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/why-I-hate-the-elder-scrolls-online

I suppose the title says it all.... 

Atleast you didn't say its a conspiracy and this site like numerous others didn't get paid enough to give glowing reviews.

Oh I don't think at all there is a conspiracy lol!

Reviewers are nerds (like us) and there is nothing more opinionated than an angry nerd. No need for conspiracies when you can explain things with good ole dumbness :)

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 594

2/12/14 10:01:29 AM#53
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

I glad eso is not f2p. Add to that the "M" rating and maybe, just maybe we'll get no whiney trolls and even less brats in game!

One can only hope. /pray

Sorry - you get MORE whiners in games that you pay for. The reason being they paid for it, they want what they want.  I saw this first hand in Rift.

 

Remember this will be on consoles also. Get ready for the teen annoyance factor.

Don't forget elitists.  The people with no jobs, who spend 16 hours a day playing in their underwear in Mommy's basement who sit around town with their uber l33t purple epics atop their unique mounts.  IMO the worst game group there is.  The entitlement and the locust like appetitie for content made exclusively for them and their guild of like minded borg collective.

QFT

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1437

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

2/12/14 5:10:22 PM#54

Kudos to y'all. Many of you had me laughing.


Originally posted by Iselin
What investors? This is a privately owned and funded company. Good try at a one liner though.

The last bit made my literally LOL. (but his rebuttal might have some merit).



Originally posted by Ruien
The minute there are no more sub MMO's being released, is the minute the genre loses me. Now Im not so self absorbed to think i would be missed because there will be 50 numbnuts to take my place. I just cant believe "gamers" have turned this genre into the Madden football franchise.

I have paid thousands of dollars into kickstarter now as a last ditch effort to show game developers and the wallets behind them, that the real gamers out there want something more substantial than the blow thru an MMO in 2 months and move on to the next game mentality. I don't need or want my hand held and I don't play games to distress or just for "fun". The MMO genre was a diamond of greatness in the EQ/daoc era.


Hear hear! I totally agree.



Originally posted by azzamasin
...IMO the worst game group there is. The entitlement and the locust like appetitie for content made exclusively for them and their guild of like minded borg collective.


Has to be the funniest post I've read in a long time.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

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