Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Destiny | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,860,318 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,246,717
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » John Smedely - The Sandbox MMO

11 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
205 posts found
  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

2/12/14 4:04:16 AM#21
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Quirhid

Thing is, the crowd that wants to "inhabit a virtual world" is rather small. Most people just want a good game. In Eve, for example, most people don't think they're a pirate, a mercenary, a part of a militia or anything of the sort (if they do they're bunch of morons). There is no RP. Ultimately, it's about pissing on the other guy's cereals. Beating someone in a game. PvP.

Make-believe is a niche market.

Thing is, you are playing make believe right now. Pretending to have some insight, while being completely wrong.

Make -believe is big business, big business.  You can make up all the stuff you want about that kind of game, and the pople who play that kind of game, but it is the future.

You would think with such insight you would know that most people play characters, not as themselves. Then it would be really creepy.

What evidence can you point me towards that supports your claim that make-believe is a bigger business than games? I don't see many LARPers around. Tabletop RPGs aren't exactly mainsream either.

People "play characters" but they don't role play.

Games?

Games are 100% make believe. From pong to soccer. Play is the escape from the reality of we're all the same in the end.

The marathon started as a reenactment of some type right?

If you are playing a role playing game, you are role playing. Regardless of what marketing has told us.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11492

2/12/14 4:10:12 AM#22
Originally posted by imsoenthused
Originally posted by funyahns

 I think a way around that could be expanded on in a theme park type game though.  Instead of having 50-80 levels why not do say 15.  Have several low zones, a handful of middle zones and concentrate the most firepower on the level 15 content.  That way the world you are creating could be filled with raid mobs and stuff right off the bat,

We had that game. It had 20 levels, and was called Guild Wars. It held quite a few peoples attention for seven or so years.

i wish anet was still making content for GW1

  askdaboss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 429

2/12/14 4:25:15 AM#23

My main problem with many sandbox games is that they often time consuming and that the results are slow to show.

This is why I enjoy themepark style content that I can simply consume.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

2/12/14 4:45:15 AM#24
Finally one of the big MMO companies get it. I'm looking forward for SOE to take the MMO genre into another golden age.
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5549

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

2/12/14 4:48:41 AM#25
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Games?

Games are 100% make believe. From pong to soccer. Play is the escape from the reality of we're all the same in the end.

The marathon started as a reenactment of some type right?

If you are playing a role playing game, you are role playing. Regardless of what marketing has told us.

Nothing to do with marketing. There's at least two types of play: A playing with a dollhouse is one, playing monopoly is another. One has rules and an objective, the other doesn't. The virtual world proponents want to do the former while most people prefer the latter.

See the difference? Dollhouse -> make-believe, Monopoly -> a game. Saying its all the same is rather ignorant.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 752

Your tears make my gun work better.

2/12/14 4:58:59 AM#26


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by FinalFikus

Originally posted by Quirhid  
Games? Games are 100% make believe. From pong to soccer. Play is the escape from the reality of we're all the same in the end. The marathon started as a reenactment of some type right? If you are playing a role playing game, you are role playing. Regardless of what marketing has told us.
Nothing to do with marketing. There's at least two types of play: A playing with a dollhouse is one, playing monopoly is another. One has rules and an objective, the other doesn't. The virtual world proponents want to do the former while most people prefer the latter.

See the difference? Dollhouse -> make-believe, Monopoly -> a game. Saying its all the same is rather ignorant.



I prefer the lego analogy. You can follow the directions and build the space ships (theme park) or you can build the space ship however you see fit (sandbox). either way works, why can't we have both in a virtual world? Oh wait we did, it was called SWG.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 752

Your tears make my gun work better.

2/12/14 4:59:46 AM#27

[mod edit]

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  User Deleted
2/12/14 5:14:21 AM#28
Originally posted by Quirhid

Thing is, the crowd that wants to "inhabit a virtual world" is rather small. Most people just want a good game. In Eve, for example, most people don't think they're a pirate, a mercenary, a part of a militia or anything of the sort (if they do they're bunch of morons). There is no RP. Ultimately, it's about pissing on the other guy's cereals. Beating someone in a game. PvP.

Make-believe is a niche market.

 

If that was true then Second Life and Entropia Universe wouldn't have been as popular as they were.  I think you underestimate how many people just want a fantasy world to live in.  A character they can invest in without having set end game goals that have a finite end point (ie: acquire the tier 15 armour set, wait 4 months, now acquire tier 16!).

  Phimosis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/16/12
Posts: 1

2/12/14 5:51:32 AM#29
Originally posted by askdaboss

My main problem with many sandbox games is that they often time consuming and that the results are slow to show.

This is why I enjoy themepark style content that I can simply consume.

Exactly. Having dabbled in EVE for over 6 months now, I still feel completely lost. I'm even a member of EVE University, which caters to teaching players how to play - however, EU is in itself overwhelming. You have to have incredible amounts of time available to even hope to accomplish the learning curve in that game. Without a doubt, EVE's results are the endpoint to strive for in a game, as Smedely stated. However, the endgame needs to be explained succinctly for new players so they know what they want to do when they reach that point. In EVE, the price for not having heavy amounts of time to dedicate to the game is you get ganked...non-stop...from all fronts.

In my opinion the BEST solution is blending the gameplay. For the sake of all those new people joining, make the game structured to walk them through the core concepts. Make progression linear until enough core concepts are grasped, then loosen the borders toward the endgame sandbox. If I want to have a "Sorcerer" as the end-game character, then show me what I need to do to get myself there so I'm not hamstrung when I arrive. You can lay out some of the sandbox elements along the way by allowing my Sorc to gain his skills in various ways, be it trial by error out in the wilds or perhaps instead through in-game education methods run by players (a much higher skilled Sorc can "educate" or "mentor" a newer player in a manner that benefits both.

Sandboxes will ALWAYS need structure and the first pillar of that structure is protection from griefing. Every game has its own army of gamers who are inherently mean and will ALWAYS prey on the weak if able - as such there needs to be protection to keep the game enjoyable. This is another point of frustration in EVE for many people when there are extremely easy ways to circumvent the protection afforded new/weak players, even in the areas that they should be 100% protected. To make the argument that this protection should not exist because players should be able to do what they want to each other just like in real life simply isn't accurate. Griefing exists because those that grief do not suffer adequate consequences when they act the way they do. In real life it is the rare individual that survives a prolonged criminal career. If the EVE griefers were threatened with loss of access to the areas they abuse with "workaround" ganking, they would cease to roam those areas because eventually they would ban themselves out of the game's main population hubs. Its about time that people developing sandbox games with PVP stopped ignoring the reasons we don't nonchalantly kill the guy across the room in real life. 

The second pillar of a good sandbox structure  is relevant sandbox content. Most games do this fairly well as they progress over time. I'm not suggesting items be "tooltip identified" simply by mousing over the item - but that tooltip could be implemented per individual once the item's purpose is discovered - again, an education system would benefit this model, where someone who knows the item's purpose could link it over chat which would benefit the person asking its purpose as well as being beneficial to the person that linked it. Relevance needs to include PVP, PVE and Crafting progression. In particular, Crafting needs to get into the 21st century with regards to its complexity and variability. More resources should be applied in game development to crafting than any other focus. Trial by error or success through education (again, much like in real life) are the choices that seem most accepted by those of us seeking a unique experience. 

The third pillar of a good sandbox structure is something I've yet to see done well....reward the player appropriately. For most MMO's and many an RPG, then has morphed over the last decade into the "achievement" systems as the alternative (additional) stimulus beyond "do quest, get gold and experience". The purpose of the sandbox is to progress the universe. In that mindset, everything we do of consequence should be beneficial to that universe. Each character should radiate a "zone of influence" that offers and accepts learned experience from their surroundings. Major and obvious learning would be something queued to the player, but in the background (again, we're in our 3rd decade of mmo programming now folks) a multitude of additional learning benefits should be applied to the character. My Sorcerer, deciding to have a bite to eat at the local inn should be able to sit at a table and "absorb the experience" of what he sees and hears during that time. Whether it be listening to a new melody for the first time, watching two men arm wrestle, or observe another sorcerer across the room practicing his art - as long as these are within the character's "zone of influence", there should be ongoing calculations being applied to numerous categories of learning that accumulate and influence current/future skills. 10 years ago, the complexity of such a crafting/learning system was not possible. I believe we have arrived now, with the only limitation being the resources applied during development. In truth, today's sandbox should be less about  "crafting" per se and more about cumulative experiences obtained during game play.

With realistic player incentives to dissuade griefing, relevant content and an open-ended rewards system focusing on the player's ADL's (activities of daily living) that serve to progress the game universe, you have a foundation that truly achieves a next-gen sandbox MMO.

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

2/12/14 6:02:02 AM#30

He makes valid points, but Smedley is really good with words, a bit less on the substance.

I am going to wait for EQN (not Landmark) to see if he really understood how to make a Sandbox MMO, or he is just full of it as usual.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

2/12/14 6:02:35 AM#31
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Games?

Games are 100% make believe. From pong to soccer. Play is the escape from the reality of we're all the same in the end.

The marathon started as a reenactment of some type right?

If you are playing a role playing game, you are role playing. Regardless of what marketing has told us.

Nothing to do with marketing. There's at least two types of play: A playing with a dollhouse is one, playing monopoly is another. One has rules and an objective, the other doesn't. The virtual world proponents want to do the former while most people prefer the latter.

See the difference? Dollhouse -> make-believe, Monopoly -> a game. Saying its all the same is rather ignorant.

If we play dollhouse together. We agree to a set of rules and stipulations. It could be a competition. Which is all you've described.

V world proponents want the same rules for all.

Others want rules that mandate secondary systems and secondary players.

Both are make believe, One is a game.  One requires bribes and rewards.

If you want to make fun, playing doll house is going to end up sounding better in my opinion.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

2/12/14 6:08:00 AM#32
Originally posted by GuyClinch

The sandbox solves nothing. You just try to offload your content creation to players - and they create shitty content. Some sandbox elements like PvP work to a limited extent but players still get bored of it.

What developers really need to be doing is designing good procedurally driven content. Thats the real MMO holy grail - you want the game to be able to respond to players needs and desires and make the world more interesting. The borderlands Director is as close as we have to this now.

Sandbox and procedurally generated content are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say each is crucial for the other's success. I don't know why the majority of mmo developers haven't yet realized this, considering that the very first sandbox game, the legendary Elite back in 8-bit days owed its success exactly to this combination of procedurally generated world and total freedom to do whatever you want within it. So the very first sandbox game, the one which defined the term, was almost completely procedurally dirven... just like Minecraft, incidentally. Why is this insight largely lost to mainstream publishers these days, I have no idea.

In fact, that's the one thing I miss in EVE and which stopped me from playing it extensively. Just think how much better it would be with procedurally generated universe and events within it... Think Master of Orion played by AIs with players individual characters within that world, capable of influencing and maybe even replacing those AIs for a time.

As for "offloading content creation to players..." well it's been a recipe for success ever since Doom (or Civilization II before that) up till now, with TES games particularly owing their huge popularity to the vast quantities of imaginative mods created by fans. There's nothing wrong with it if you manage it smartly - let the players do whatever the hell they want and then pick and choose "official" content updates from this vast pool. As simple as that. Personally I feel my mouth begin to water when I consider the possibility of player-created PvP arenas in a MMO... Something Smed implied recently and which, being a staple of FPSs, is still ridiculously absent from mmos. I don't think TF2 would be one tenth as successful as it is without player-made arenas and other stuff.. What the mmo dev crowd is waiting for I haven't the foggiest. Kudos to SOE and Smed for taking the (pretty obvious) plunge others should have taken a loong time ago.

As for Smed's text... i find it perfect. Exactly what I (and many others) have been piping for a long time - you can't have a continuous, endless game which is story (or "content") driven. The very idea of a mmo is directly opposed to the one where you "consume" a set amount of content and then bug off. A story is defined by a beginning and an end, and if you have a game which relies on a player never reaching the end... You'll have a big problem if you make it story-driven - because by their very definition stories end. Sadly, Bioware and others, so obsessed by their story-telling model where it pays if players burn through content quickly and demand more, never managed to realize this. Their answer to everything was "more story" without realizing it is exactly this story-reliance what is killing their mmos longevity. It's heartening to finally see a big name developer realize this simple fact. I must say I'm, dare I say it, cautiously optimistic tho I can't help feeling a little bit sad that so many years of development and genre evolution were wasted on this misguided obsession with stories.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

2/12/14 6:21:51 AM#33
Originally posted by GuyClinch

The sandbox solves nothing. You just try to offload your content creation to players - and they create shitty content. Some sandbox elements like PvP work to a limited extent but players still get bored of it.

What developers really need to be doing is designing good procedurally driven content. Thats the real MMO holy grail - you want the game to be able to respond to players needs and desires and make the world more interesting. The borderlands Director is as close as we have to this now.

That's not what he's saying in the blog.

He's saying you still give them content, but also give them the tools to make content themselves, IE: EVE. 

He's saying that MMO's have only been giving players half of what they need to keep them in the game, and their plan is to give them both parts in their games from now on. 

 

A sandbox core, with the tools for players to not just make content but be the content, as well as developer created content. 

  Darthconnor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 59

2/12/14 6:53:42 AM#34
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by FinalFikus

Originally posted by Quirhid  
Games? Games are 100% make believe. From pong to soccer. Play is the escape from the reality of we're all the same in the end. The marathon started as a reenactment of some type right? If you are playing a role playing game, you are role playing. Regardless of what marketing has told us.
Nothing to do with marketing. There's at least two types of play: A playing with a dollhouse is one, playing monopoly is another. One has rules and an objective, the other doesn't. The virtual world proponents want to do the former while most people prefer the latter.

 

See the difference? Dollhouse -> make-believe, Monopoly -> a game. Saying its all the same is rather ignorant.


 


I prefer the lego analogy. You can follow the directions and build the space ships (theme park) or you can build the space ship however you see fit (sandbox). either way works, why can't we have both in a virtual world? Oh wait we did, it was called SWG.

Be great to have another game that is close to what SWG was. Dunno bout most but miss playing a game that I could recreate the same character over and over to fit what i was doing and most the grinds only took a few days. I think most need to see content is needed to an extend but not to the point of being the whole game. If you had Swtor story driven missions as just gameplay instead of soemthing you had to do to level players would enjoy it and take the time to do it all instead of what they needed from that planet to level. As it is now most pass up some of the better missions in a rush to get to max level. Take that thought away and make a game that easily level or skill gained and have it in such away that ppl that want it are free to relax and do it as they see fit and you could have alot more content for players without alot more work. Love to actually play thru Swtor content from start to finish as a max level character that been trained as a Jedi in their temple rather then some rookie Jedi that slowly leveling up and taking on these missions without most my abilities.

Had Swg had missions to do for a distraction while making the main part of the content as it was player driven it would have been much more of something ppl where interested in. That and better tutorial on how systems worked. Most games seem to hang things like better gear and weapons infront of you as a reason to do missions or raids whatever the content is. Once they have it they either sit and wait or they leave til more newer things come out. Give them something like components for making weapons and armor and let them sell that to crafters and think they would have a reason to stay around longer. Build a community of players that all work together to improve their gameplay and instead of creating a game that has guilds that raid and other guilds that craft and yet more that do whatever you can create guilds that play the entire game together and need all kinds of different style players in the same guild to do what the game has to offer.

Mostly a pipe dream but who knows.

  Rusque

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1724

2/12/14 7:00:28 AM#35

Talk is cheap.

Hell, we talk all the time on these forums, that's exactly what talk is worth.  Let's see it happen, don't care who does it, let's see it.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7251

 
OP  2/12/14 7:12:03 AM#36
Originally posted by jesad
Good stuff BC.  Thanks for the link.

Your welcome. It's one thing to talk the talk. It's something much more impressive when you have product walking with your talking.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/12/14 7:25:45 AM#37
Originally posted by GuyClinch

The sandbox solves nothing. You just try to offload your content creation to players - and they create shitty content. Some sandbox elements like PvP work to a limited extent but players still get bored of it.

Because PvP IS the content.

 

WoW is facing this problem now, that the old time consuming content is being replaced with more PvP islands, with little but the basic grinding of content left to do, for a time sink. It got boring by the 2nd week.

 

Games need a light rail of PvE content to keep the game interesting and played (mini events), as just PvPing is getting older than dirt. I tested SOE's PS2 out for a change of pace, and it's like...horrible...as players are just camping bases to score. What a waste of resources.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4782

2/12/14 7:53:20 AM#38

Smed totally avoided the real issue here. The issue isn't about unsustainable streams of new content, as much as it is about not wanting to release a game that has a grind in it. That's the real issue here. The old games were played for a long time, because they took a long time to play. Now, they release games that don't take a long time to play and then sit back and wonder why no one sticks around. Early MMORPGS, regardless of Theme Park or Sand Box all had grinds. If you are going to develop an MMORPG, you are going to have to develop MEANINGFUL grinds. 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

2/12/14 7:57:22 AM#39

Pretty much the only major company that actually understands what is wrong with MMORPG these days (I don't count EvE btw). Everyone else that has released a game in the past 5 years has been totally clueless.

I just hope they can make a decent game out of it.

  tyfon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/09
Posts: 218

2/12/14 7:59:42 AM#40
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Why would anyone listen to this guy or have hopes for Sony?  They are closing games, their credit rating is junk, they just sold their PC division, they forecasted some 20 billion in profit then just came out and said it they will have a billion dollar loss for the year.  If EQN flops there will be no way Smedely will be allowed or have the resources to make another game they will close.

 

If you actually looked at EQN and EQN:L instead of spewing hate, you would understand that these are the games he is talking about.

At least they are open and explain what they are doing. Even the Alpha of EQN:L does not have a NDA up. Compare that to ESO which still has a NDA one month prior to launch...

11 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search