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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » So the general census is that TESO should be F2P and not P2P?

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113 posts found
  SpottyGekko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2956

2/11/14 1:46:53 PM#41
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by collekt
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So far payment type has never been a factor of a games succes..

 

there is only one thing that matters and thats quallity or fun....   If people enjoy what they see, it sells... And as long as they enjoy the game, they will keep spending money...

Payment type is ALWAYS a factor in an MMO's success. Some MMOs are good enough for box price+sub+cash shop (WoW/EVE), some aren't but are good enough for F2P/B2P (for example SWTOR, TERA, GW2, TSW, Rift etc.), and some aren't good for any model and get shut down. The only one of those last 5 games that is considered successful is GW2, because it launched with the correct business model.

The big question is: Is ESO good enough to have box price + sub + cash shop + preorder perks? No way. Is it good enough to be B2P/F2P? Probably. B2P would probably be the best option since it is the same business model of all previous ES games.

Why should it have the same business model as past ES games? It's a completely different kind of game.

With THAT combat/UI/animations It is pretty much exclusively targeted to ES fans. 

Or non-ES fans who'd like to try something different perhaps ?

Except that very few "standard themepark" players actually want "something different", even if they claim to...

  Khalathwyr

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Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

2/11/14 1:49:18 PM#42
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
Originally posted by Ender4

I don't think it should be free to play but that is the only amount I would personally pay for it because I don't think it is a very good product. I think the generic payment model for an MMO should be buy the box and play without a monthly fee and then if they want they can add cosmetic junk to a cash shop or not.

I didn't buy Skyrim when it was full price either though, so I'm on about the same level that I was with the last game in the series.

The B2P idea is like communism; it looks and sounds great, but doesn't work (for lots of reasons).

Take GW2 for example... Sure it was B2P, and the cash shop was for fluff. But they weren't making enough cash from fluff (and no wonder at dye pots for each character... get tae!).

So they then nerf drops/looting to the point that if you wanted to craft yourself gear you had to use the cash for gold convertor, OR grind dungeons to make cash then buy the mats needed (Which was awesome from a game with no grind! Or so they said).

Would you end up spending more than $15 per month? Maybe not (my guess is players with alts would be screaming!) but at least with the sub you get anything, no "Need more arrows? ONLY $5!!!".

And B2P still feeds off the F2P whales.

Love subs or hate them, but they are the only honest choice - you know what your getting and arnt forced into cash shop purchases!

:)

 

Are they honest. The person who plays twice a month pays the same price as the person who plays 30 times a months. As for GW2, I've only had to grind in the game when I wanted to grind, when I wanted ascended weapon. I still can do endgame content without it and still have a ball. Cosmetic is what cosmetic is. There is no real reason that you need the stuff.

Then that person who plays twice a month should find another hobby or game if it upsets them. That example is poor. Exchange the medium from MMO to cable TV and you don't see this kind of complaining. People pay the same amount for a given package a month yet you don't see folks complaining that their neighbor gets to watch more hours of HBO.

Folks need to evaluate "bang for buck" based on their personal happiness, not in comparison to what someone else is doing. Be happy with your own yard and stop peeking over into the neighbors and trying to live like them.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1025

2/11/14 1:51:25 PM#43
Happy to pay the 15.
  Khalathwyr

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Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

2/11/14 1:52:21 PM#44
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by Hariken
Why would i want to drop 15 a month on it when i can keep playing my modded Skyrim which offers me more than this mmo will. There's nothing in this game where you can't say there's a mod for that. The only thing this game offers is playing online which frankly for a Tes game has always been a bad idea to me. You will not get the feeling of being in a living world from any mmo today. Just imagine what the chat will be like in this game or just other players running around in my Tes game kills it for me. I know alot of Tes players that feel the same as i do. A true Tes game is not an mmo. I think when this game has been out for a few months others Tes fans will start feeling the same that don't now. The only one i see really getting into this are the fans of mmo's not singleplayer Tes games. Since the begining there have always been those players that wanted to play online and this is for them.

This is a problem for Zenimax for sure.  I have a couple friends who are big TES fans but don't play MMO's and they really have very little interest in this game.  Their feeling is this game will have all the downsides of playing in a MMO with non of the upsides of playing a Elder Scrolls game and it's hard for me to argue with them honestly.  The way open world zones are phased will help but at the end of the day unless Zenimax can prove to these fans who have little to no interest in multiplayer content that the $15 a month is getting them something of value they won't do it.  That and the rumbling about light end game PVE content is why I think Zenimax is banking on PVP to make or break this game.  If the PVP shows itself to be engaging long term than players won't care if it's $15 a month or what the pace of new PVE content is but if it's not than that monthly sub fee is going to begin to look steep very fast.

Just depends on your personal experience. My wife is an ES fan and she'll be playing. I have several other ES first fan friends that were skeptical up until they got into a test weekend. None are saying the game is perfect, no MMO is. All are saying...well, all have pre purchased.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

2/11/14 1:52:42 PM#45

I don't think it really matters what payment model it will use, it won't make it a better game. All P2P does is raise the barrier for entry and for Zenimax profit margin, it won't make that much difference, after all if people aren't going to spend $60 for ESO it's unlikely they will spend much in the cash shops. In fact in the short-term they will probably make more money via box and subscription.

In the long term this may change. If they want to raise the population or if they feel that a cash shop plus sub will make them more money then that's the road they will use. If that's the case all they have to do is make sure that the cash shop doesn't have a negative impact on the game experience.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

2/11/14 2:02:09 PM#46
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

The B2P idea is like communism; it looks and sounds great, but doesn't work (for lots of reasons).

Take GW2 for example... Sure it was B2P, and the cash shop was for fluff. But they weren't making enough cash from fluff (and no wonder at dye pots for each character... get tae!).

So they then nerf drops/looting to the point that if you wanted to craft yourself gear you had to use the cash for gold convertor, OR grind dungeons to make cash then buy the mats needed (Which was awesome from a game with no grind! Or so they said).

Would you end up spending more than $15 per month? Maybe not (my guess is players with alts would be screaming!) but at least with the sub you get anything, no "Need more arrows? ONLY $5!!!".

And B2P still feeds off the F2P whales.

Love subs or hate them, but they are the only honest choice - you know what your getting and arnt forced into cash shop purchases!

:)

Are they honest. The person who plays twice a month pays the same price as the person who plays 30 times a months. As for GW2, I've only had to grind in the game when I wanted to grind, when I wanted ascended weapon. I still can do endgame content without it and still have a ball. Cosmetic is what cosmetic is. There is no real reason that you need the stuff.

It's a monthly membership that guarantees that you'll have unlimited access for 30 days. Whether or not you can spend 30 days playing or two days, it's up to each individual to determine their own value for that membership. If someone can only play twice a month, I doubt they're getting much out of any MMO, much less worried about a sub fee.

Would you say that Gym membership fees are unfair if a person can only go twice a month and pay the same price as the person who goes 30 times a month? Or would you say that it's that individuals responsibility to know that he's paying for something he's barely going to use?

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6175

2/11/14 2:26:45 PM#47

I actually don't care that much.  I would say I think they are making a mistake in their business model, but for me personally I don't really care.

 

However what they are doing with pre-order and CE is completely scummy and disgusts me.  In fact it disturbs me greatly as some business dickhead in a monkey suit is clearly making decisions that are at complete odds to the design of the game and whoever is responsible for it needs to be shitcanned immediately before it gets out of control.

  IGaveUp

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 272

I can't pull it off. I gave up.

2/11/14 2:31:07 PM#48

F2P?  Nope.

 

B2P + Item Shop + Services would in my opinion work best for both PC and console.

 

  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 782

2/11/14 2:33:13 PM#49
B2P + sub + regular and high quality content updates all the way!
  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2002

Posts deleted: 12589457

2/11/14 2:44:55 PM#50
Originally posted by retye50
Nope, disagree...I dont mind paying $15 dollars a month. Hell, I can spend that in one night at the bar.

Sounds like one these night in which you really party hard, not matter the cost ;)

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 905

2/11/14 2:49:24 PM#51
Originally posted by Hariken
Why would i want to drop 15 a month on it when i can keep playing my modded Skyrim which offers me more than this mmo will. There's nothing in this game where you can't say there's a mod for that. The only thing this game offers is playing online which frankly for a Tes game has always been a bad idea to me. You will not get the feeling of being in a living world from any mmo today. Just imagine what the chat will be like in this game or just other players running around in my Tes game kills it for me. I know alot of Tes players that feel the same as i do. A true Tes game is not an mmo. I think when this game has been out for a few months others Tes fans will start feeling the same that don't now. The only one i see really getting into this are the fans of mmo's not singleplayer Tes games. Since the begining there have always been those players that wanted to play online and this is for them.

I'm not sure what your argument is here.

 

People that want to play a modded single player experience are not included in ESO's target demographic.  Please, load up your game and have fun.

  darker70

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

2/11/14 2:59:01 PM#52
Originally posted by Telondariel
Originally posted by Hariken
Why would i want to drop 15 a month on it when i can keep playing my modded Skyrim which offers me more than this mmo will. There's nothing in this game where you can't say there's a mod for that. The only thing this game offers is playing online which frankly for a Tes game has always been a bad idea to me. You will not get the feeling of being in a living world from any mmo today. Just imagine what the chat will be like in this game or just other players running around in my Tes game kills it for me. I know alot of Tes players that feel the same as i do. A true Tes game is not an mmo. I think when this game has been out for a few months others Tes fans will start feeling the same that don't now. The only one i see really getting into this are the fans of mmo's not singleplayer Tes games. Since the begining there have always been those players that wanted to play online and this is for them.

I'm not sure what your argument is here.

 

People that want to play a modded single player experience are not included in ESO's target demographic.  Please, load up your game and have fun.

Well not strictly true I will play both if I buy it that because I  like what I see so far  but want to see what Wildstar has to offer,also Hariken fails to realise this will also go to consoles you can't get the modded Skyrim which takes the game beyond anything a vanilla console Skyrim can offer compared to the modded PC version so we are not just talking PC gamers here.

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2002

Posts deleted: 12589457

2/11/14 3:12:58 PM#53

 

My time is more precious to me than my money. A game of which i think that it already isn't worth my money and for which i wouldn't pay a sub isn't worth my time anyway.

So even if it F2P and wouldn't waste any money on it, i still wouldn't want to waste any time on it.

  collekt

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 214

2/11/14 3:14:56 PM#54
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by collekt
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

So far payment type has never been a factor of a games succes..

 

there is only one thing that matters and thats quallity or fun....   If people enjoy what they see, it sells... And as long as they enjoy the game, they will keep spending money...

Payment type is ALWAYS a factor in an MMO's success. Some MMOs are good enough for box price+sub+cash shop (WoW/EVE), some aren't but are good enough for F2P/B2P (for example SWTOR, TERA, GW2, TSW, Rift etc.), and some aren't good for any model and get shut down. The only one of those last 5 games that is considered successful is GW2, because it launched with the correct business model.

The big question is: Is ESO good enough to have box price + sub + cash shop + preorder perks? No way. Is it good enough to be B2P/F2P? Probably. B2P would probably be the best option since it is the same business model of all previous ES games.

Why should it have the same business model as past ES games? It's a completely different kind of game.

With THAT combat/UI/animations It is pretty much exclusively targeted to ES fans. 

That doesn't factor into this at all, nor is it a valid reason for your argument. Just because it has Elder Scrolls in the name and is targeted at people who played the previous Elder Scrolls games doesn't provide any ground at all for using the exact same payment model on a different genre of game. There is a pretty large fundamental difference between a single player RPG and an MMORPG, being that RPGs are made as a stand alone game. RPGs are designed from the ground up to be a complete package, and once you buy it you don't need anything else from the developers save maybe a few small patches or DLC that you buy as well. An MMORPG requires 24/7 servers, constant upkeep and maintenance, balance changes, bug fixes, etc. It just makes absolutely zero sense to say it should be the same payment model as a single player game just because it shares an IP.

  DwarfZZZ

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/06
Posts: 131

2/11/14 3:17:52 PM#55
Do you work for free?

Give FFXIV ARR a try. Join with the Recruit a Friend Program. We'll both get rewards.
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/friend_recruit/
Send me a PM with your e-mail address to receive an invite to try the game out!

  Vapors

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 408

2/11/14 3:23:21 PM#56

Fact is everything for free is trash, or atleast almost trash.

Games which went from sub to f2p are fairly made good, it feels they had a much higher investment at developing. While almost all games which get instant released as a f2p game, are soooo poorly made its mostly not even worth to try them.

So why should ESO which totally looks like a p2p game, be f2p??? this question is totally strange

  Trestero

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 13

2/11/14 3:23:43 PM#57
As someone who usually goes F2P unless a game is enjoyable enough for me, just allow me to say that from my time in the beta I think the pricing is fine, if a little bit conservative on how much time the initial purchase gets you. If paying helps fund future updates and even potentially another Elder Scrolls game, I have no problem with paying. Also, I forget exactly where but someone's made a good point, which is that rather than having the development time and funding going into cashgrabs to get people to open their wallets, it should be preferable to most people to instead have it actually go into content.
  reeereee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 710

2/11/14 3:28:44 PM#58
The general consensus is that there is nothing in the first 9 levels worth paying $15 a month for, this is largely due to the boneheaded way Zenimax lifted their NDA and designed their low level content while keeping their endgame relatively obscured.  Perhaps if Zenimax would like to show off their endgame and AvAvA rather than expecting to be praised for their mediocre noob island experience people might start thinking the game is worth something again.
  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 782

2/11/14 3:30:39 PM#59
Originally posted by reeereee
The general consensus is that there is nothing in the first 9 levels worth paying $15 a month for, this is largely due to the boneheaded way Zenimax lifted their NDA and designed their low level content while keeping their endgame relatively obscured.  Perhaps if Zenimax would like to show off their endgame and AvAvA rather than expecting to be praised for their mediocre noob island experience people might start thinking the game is worth something again.

They should let you play the game for free from lvl 1 to cap and let you decide afterwards whether or not it was worth paying ;-)

  zenryoku

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 147

2/11/14 3:32:05 PM#60

I'm totally fine with a sub fee. I've been playing MMOs since 1999 and am used to/comfortable with paying for a subscription. 

It's a cheap form of entertainment when you compare it to "dinner and a movie" nowadays: $80-100 for the wife and I. Eesh.

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