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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I hate crafting

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  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/04/14 2:08:35 PM#21
Originally posted by Razeekster
I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

It depends on the game. I enjoy crafting in games that don't have tiered resources and where equipment is destroyed and needs to be replaced. In EVE Online and Mortal Online, I can focus on a particular type of item and specialize in it. Moreover, I don't have to grind through 80 levels worth of useless crap - gated along the way by your Murder Things level - just to create something people want to use. 

I'm not a fan of crafting in most of the EQ/WOW-style MMOs simply because the tiered content and the static loot table make it a tedious and repetitive process. Some people like that, though, so more power to them. 

 

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  Effin_Rabbit

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Joined: 5/26/05
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This Rabbit stinks!

2/04/14 2:17:00 PM#22
New mmorpg's, yes crafting is pretty uninspired so if the OP isnt familiar with yesterdays mmorpg's then I can understand this logic. If you dont like WoW's crafting then you probably wont like most recent mmo implementations of the mechanic. I still do it just to break up the monotony of grinding out quests. But I think crafting is just like questing in mmorpg's, you bang out repetitive content until you move on to the next area where you do the same thing all over again.
  Beelzebobbie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/09
Posts: 427

If DaoC was so fun why don't you just play it?

2/04/14 2:17:57 PM#23
Originally posted by Thorkune
My first MMO was SWG and crafting ended up being 80% of my game play. Now, I can't find any other MMO that fills that crafting void that I have after SWG shut down.

I don't know for sure but I think there are some private servers with SWG that are still online. 

I don't know that much cause I have never been into the game but a few friends of mine still play it, or so they say.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6902

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

2/04/14 2:26:07 PM#24

Crafting is simply a realistic part of what should be in a ROLE playing game.The other realistric aspect is that you don't have to craft,you can simply buy off the market/auction house.

The problem with crafting and many other systems is they are usually done very generic,each craft being like the other and nothing leans towards RARITY or exploration and discovery.

I wish there was a way to keep information off the internet,then crafting could really be unique to each player.What crafting should do is be able to allow players to customize their gear in a way that is different from others.Also you should be allowed to sell your wares not have that lame "soulbind" idea i see in games.

Crafting should be expansive and go far beyond just gear.Example in FFXi you could garden and grow tons of different items.You could craft food that is meaningful ALl the time,not just outside combat or just inside combat.

I would like to see other additions like ships and boats and housing.If a game goes a step further and allows you to raise mounts and pets,you can have a whole line of crafting revolve around that as well.

I think what a game should also do is make crafts VERY powerful but make the mats sop rare limiting players from spamming their use.Think of it like having that one huge heal  pot that could save your life that one time.

There is a heck of a lot that can be done with crafting,we have yet to see a really creative developer and one willing to put in the effort and cost to make it happen.

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  Xthos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

2/04/14 2:28:16 PM#25

I don't think anyone can describe it to you, to where you will say, "I get it!".  It is like asking why someone likes a certain food, and the reasons they like it are probably the reasons you don't.

 

I like crafting, all the way back to UO, also liked having a vendor to sell stuff for extra cash with the materials I didn't need.  I like to be able to make stuff for my characters or a guild I am in, and help people out.  A lot of mmos I played in, like DAoC for instance, I had a bowyer/fletcher, and when I made my scout, I had the best bow for lower level characters.  I would smash people in the battleground, if I did not craft, I would not have that bow....Sure at higher levels their was non-player made bows, but that is just a small thing.

 

I had fun running around mining in UO in my full valorite GM plate armor, and seeing pks wanting to kill my smith to take it...Gave me some good laughs.  I was in one of the top PvP guilds in VG, me and my wife craft and it was nice to see people (us included) using stuff we made to help them kill people in our rival guilds, and maybe the new outfit we made was some of the difference in winning.

 

I like mmos with a player economy, I like to be able to make stuff that is useful to all my characters, my guild, and have non-instanced housing that I can make and put stuff in.

 

I am not a game hopper though, if I am playing a mmo that I like, I generally play only 1 mmo at a time.  IT also makes up 80%+ of my gaming time too.  So I like a good mix of harvesting/crafting, pve, pvp, raid,  and even side stuff like diplomacy every once in a while like VG had.  I hate daily quests, I like to log in and not feel like I have to do x, y, z or I am gimping my play time.

 

I doubt any of that did much for you OP, but if you don't like crafting, it is no big deal, I have never played a mmo personally where people that just want to kill stuff cannot afford anything they need with that play style and let others do what they dislike.  They may hate to part with the cash for it, but I haven't seen the killer punished in any mmo that I have played yet.  I am sure their is one out there, just as I have played mmos where crafting sucks and is a waste of time.

 

 

  Dibdabs

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2482

2/04/14 2:30:54 PM#26
Originally posted by Razeekster
I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind...

I never understand the appeal of it either.  All it does is drain time and in-game resources in order to make vendor junk nobody wants, just to get skill-ups in order to make more junk for the vendor so you can continue the whole pointless cycle.  I do try out crafting in games, albeit briefly, to see if one day a game has crafting that might intrigue me, but to no avail.

  Incomparable

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 796

2/04/14 2:50:48 PM#27
Originally posted by Razeekster
I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

It depends on the game... since crafting is a genrealization.

Crafting is basically a mini game that allows to do something else after or even during combat. That alone adds value to the time you play the game by multi tasking.

Crafting is not simply about collecting materials and making money.

Depending on the game, cradfting includes collecting resources which could lead to open world pvp, or maybe it is the only real reason to pvp.

Making money allows for more gameplay options as well. So cfting adds value by making you more effecient by allowing you to multi task and thus be richer and more powerful in the game. Again, depending on how the game allows you spend money other than money sinks.

Crafting it self can help others. Depending on the game crafting can be essential in a sand box mmo with full loot from corpses in pvp, or just adds to cusomization.

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  Rhinotones

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/21/13
Posts: 215

Respect people who speak their mind factually and intelligently, and please, never put anyone down.

2/04/14 4:57:17 PM#28

For me, the idea behind having a crafting system within a game is to add further depth to your character. If the detail and design of a crafting system is done reasonably well there is personal satisfaction to be gained from it. From creating a powerful weapon or piece of armour, a trinket or a house, an achievement or a bragging rights. The key with crafting in any game is to ensure that it offers reasonable benefits and rewards.

 

If done very well, a great crafting system will add a wonderful commerce and another layer to the game again. Supply and demand becomes important to people who like to craft, gather or grow items. An auction house/trade area adds a hub/meeting place to buy and sell wares which in turn can give a town or city that vibrant and busy feel about it.

 

I usually associate someone who enjoys crafting as a person who's relaxed and prepared to spend hours on their craft. Many crafters are also driven by a desire to build wealth. For me, having alot of in game gold through my crafting exploits allowed me to purchase rare mounts and other items that are generally unaccessable to most people.

 

I was also in a position to help out guild mates on crafting high end items and even low items for people levelling, providing materials or just giving them gold to get them something they needed. When levelling an alt, if I met someone and we ended up levelling/questing together, I'd go out of my way to get to know them. If they were fairly new to the game or had no gold I'd usually mail them some bags and gold before I logged off. I received alot of personal satisfaction from this.

 

Crafting's definitely not for everyone, nor is pvp, rp, raiding etc but they are all intergral aspects of a well balanced game that provides gamers options and opportunities to fill their time with things they enjoy doing.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1978

May the game be ever in your favor.

 
OP  2/04/14 5:26:04 PM#29
Originally posted by JAFA

To the OP & others who dislike crafting, may I point out that without you, we who prefer crafting wouldn't have any real place in MMOs?

So, seriously, thank you, for existing, & for playing ('cos lets face it, crafting for sale to NPC vendors is just grinding).

I may dislike crafting but that doesn't mean I don't  force myself to do it, for money, or gear. So sorry, I am not providing you with any money :(

Smile

  Kevyne-Shandris

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Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

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2/04/14 5:57:08 PM#30
Originally posted by Razeekster
Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

For those who use games to unwind instead of winding up, it's the best time sink in gaming.

 

It's even better if there's mats to farm and the farming isn't in a middle of a mob, deal. Turn on the music and/or Vent and have some relaxing hours unwinding. My sis would fish for hours, and instead of having to wake up at 3am and lug the tackle and all the bait to the local fishing hole (and keeping up with the fishing license and laws), online fishing is 10x easier.

 

Crafting side, if a game offers the best items to be made, with a long mastery track, it's appreciated more because less people would bother to be masters (it's a bar to bots). Games with like 2 year mastery tracks, are really good as they also tend to offer custom naming of rare gear (sweet perk for the long journey to be a master crafter).

 

Most games tack on crafting as an after thought and that's how/why many games crafting is so stale. If it competes with raiding, for example, devs look at it as taking the grand prize away, instead of making the drops delicious (not much difference in a rare mat from a rare piece of gear, since it's still rare and something really wanted by trade skillers. And devs can ensure the raiders can afford it by having the cache full of currency, too).

 

So a MMO without a good crafting path I won't even bother keeping up with, and will cross it out on day one. I don't care what combat methods it has; what shiny new graphic, or tech. A game that is all about winding up, "challenge" and kill kill kill is boring and senseless to me (a game designed for burning out). But a game with the above features something I'll look into to play, or have already played, as it's a nice time sink I can schedule at anytime and without having to wait 3hrs for some group to form to be labeled an "MMO". -_-

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

2/04/14 6:36:20 PM#31
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by Razeekster
Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

For those who use games to unwind instead of winding up, it's the best time sink in gaming.

 

Wait .. you cannot unwind with kill kill kill games, don't mean that others cannot.

 

  Rhoklaw

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2/04/14 6:50:03 PM#32
Originally posted by Razeekster
Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

Well, first off, crafting is only enjoyable if the mechanics of it are done properly. Basically, crafting is in a sense like a mini game. Think of it like playing a slot machine where you put a coin ( effort ) in and possibly win the jackpot ( kick ass item ). It's all about making something really cool, to show off. To be able to craft something really cool or unique would be just as fun as being the first to kill a boss. Also note, most crafting, while it can be interdependent with other crafters goods, is still kind of a solo person style of gaming.

Personally, I enjoy everything, PvE, PvP and Crafting. However, I hate only having one choice. So really for me, the ability to not have to fight to be entertained, is just cherry on top of the icing.

  Robokapp

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2/04/14 6:54:22 PM#33
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by StonesDK

It's being part of a thriving online economy. You produce something and somebody else buys it. You are a a psudo-entrepreneur.

For a lot of people, that's a pretty fun meta game often times more fun than the game itself

 

the fact that has to be explained is mind boggling.

 

You didn't explain what was fun about crafting at all. You described a feeling around crafting about being part of the economy, but that still doesn't make crafting any less of a boring soulless grind.

what you describe is gathering not crafting.

  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

2/04/14 7:21:19 PM#34
I agree with the OP. Crafting and gathering have rarely been done well in any MMO. Both boring as hell. Press this button, then this and this... great, I have created steel bastard sword no. 24668. I have been granted the privilege of making a mithril knife..yipee. Screw that, I'd club some orcs over the head and take their epic weapons out their cold - dead - hands!

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  Sovrath

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2/04/14 7:39:47 PM#35
Originally posted by Razeekster
I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

You know, I used to think like you. And to some extant I still do.

I ALWAYS hated crafting. I've despised it ever since I found out that I could make my own gear only to find out that I had to gather a lot of bits that then made more bits and then once you had hundreds and hundreds of bits (lineage 2 crafting) you pushed a button and the same item like all the rest of the people doing the same thing came into being.

Then one day, during my earlier gaming years when I was playing neverwinter nights, I found a mod that allowed you to make your own character and outfit him/her any way you wanted.

I discovered that all those armor bits and weapons actually had alternate parts.

You want one type of weapon but different pauldrons? sure! It was all in the game already. You want different pauldrons on each shoulder? You could do that too.

You could have swords with different blades or different grips and color, color, color!

I would spend hours fiddling with this mod.

That's when I realized that I didn't hate crafting, I hated mmo crafting.

You see, in my "real life" I am a composer and spend time twiddling and fiddling with sound. And I love it. With the neverwinter nights mod I found that I could spend a lot of time doing the same with game assets.

but in many mmo's, crafting isn't about DESIGN it is about collecting the requisite amount of bits. It has  nothing to do with creativity and everything to do with being a hoarder of virtual bric-a-brac.

I'm told there have been games that allowed a more creative role in crafting, at least as far as stats go, but these days it's mostly about using the exact same in game mesh and collecting the bits to recreate it. It's not about "crafting" so much as "photo copying".

 

  Raxxo82

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 141

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2/04/14 7:48:42 PM#36
I like crafting, I just never craft anything myself. Played eq2 on and off for many year, and theres alot of crafting to be done in that game. Though Ive managed to lvl cap most classes my highest lvl crafter is a lvl 25 fletcher or something. The thing is that everytime I think Im gonna get some crafting done, I find someone running something so.. I can just do that real quick cause its not like the crafting tables are.goin anywhere. Then I just buy stuff from other crafters and give the mats to friends and guildies.

  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

2/04/14 7:53:07 PM#37
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Razeekster
I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...

You know, I used to think like you. And to some extant I still do.

I ALWAYS hated crafting. I've despised it ever since I found out that I could make my own gear only to find out that I had to gather a lot of bits that then made more bits and then once you had hundreds and hundreds of bits (lineage 2 crafting) you pushed a button and the same item like all the rest of the people doing the same thing came into being.

Then one day, during my earlier gaming years when I was playing neverwinter nights, I found a mod that allowed you to make your own character and outfit him/her any way you wanted.

I discovered that all those armor bits and weapons actually had alternate parts.

You want one type of weapon but different pauldrons? sure! It was all in the game already. You want different pauldrons on each shoulder? You could do that too.

You could have swords with different blades or different grips and color, color, color!

I would spend hours fiddling with this mod.

That's when I realized that I didn't hate crafting, I hated mmo crafting.

You see, in my "real life" I am a composer and spend time twiddling and fiddling with sound. And I love it. With the neverwinter nights mod I found that I could spend a lot of time doing the same with game assets.

but in many mmo's, crafting isn't about DESIGN it is about collecting the requisite amount of bits. It has  nothing to do with creativity and everything to do with being a hoarder of virtual bric-a-brac.

I'm told there have been games that allowed a more creative role in crafting, at least as far as stats go, but these days it's mostly about using the exact same in game mesh and collecting the bits to recreate it. It's not about "crafting" so much as "photo copying".

 

I agree with that. In minecraft or starbound and many other games, even the sims I spent hours upon hours getting my house, gear or city just right. There is a lot of scope for self expression in these games and the feeling you can create and share something unique that other people can enjoy is a great feeling and that is what crafting should be. But crafting in MMO's is the exact opposite of that. The stuff you create is never rarely unique and people are in general indifferent to who created it, I mean who is going to care about who crafted the cheapest set of level 60 crafted armor in the AH when there are dozens of the same type?

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  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

2/04/14 7:59:02 PM#38
Originally posted by Arakazi
I agree with the OP. Crafting and gathering have rarely been done well in any MMO. Both boring as hell. Press this button, then this and this... great, I have created steel bastard sword no. 24668. I have been granted the privilege of making a mithril knife..yipee. Screw that, I'd club some orcs over the head and take their epic weapons out their cold - dead - hands!

Ultimately, that's all anything in game is.  Click here, click there, hit these buttons.  Something happens, do it again. 

Everything else is visual cues to tell us where to click at what time, and to reward us for doing it right or penalize us for doing it wrong.

  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

2/04/14 8:34:33 PM#39
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by Arakazi
I agree with the OP. Crafting and gathering have rarely been done well in any MMO. Both boring as hell. Press this button, then this and this... great, I have created steel bastard sword no. 24668. I have been granted the privilege of making a mithril knife..yipee. Screw that, I'd club some orcs over the head and take their epic weapons out their cold - dead - hands!

Ultimately, that's all anything in game is.  Click here, click there, hit these buttons.  Something happens, do it again. 

Everything else is visual cues to tell us where to click at what time, and to reward us for doing it right or penalize us for doing it wrong.

I half agree with that, but with mobs there are sometimes usually other things to consider. Eg, if I use a lightning spell will it do more dmg because its a machine etc. But you touched something which I consider the biggest problem with MMO's which is too much repetition. Whether its dailies, quest, crafting, raids or dungeons there is a lot of repetition involved.

A certain amount of repetition is ok, but there comes a point when it becomes tedium. Questing, crafting, gathering and mob grinding are by far the worse offenders. Games like Star Wars or the Secret world try to break the tedium by hiding it behind clever dialogues and cut scenes. But the tedium is still there. The basic problem is when you beat one type of mob easily and asked to do it again 30 times its ok. But when you have dozens upon dozens of quest like that as well of the other quest staples its not fun. It doesn't make me a better player, it doesn't excite me or make the world a richer, more immersive experience. It's just plain boring.

To be frank I would prefer fewer but more challenging quests and fewer but more challenging battles. In addition, I would love to have options in which way to complete quests or dungeons. I mean do we have to kill everything? Why not use diplomacy or assassination? If I am a bard, make it so I can do a quest or dungeon the way a bard would do it. If I am a rogue let me do the quest the way a rogue does it. If I am in a dungeon and a enchanter comes along, make it a different experience.

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  iixviiiix

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 567

2/04/14 9:43:36 PM#40
Originally posted by Darknessguy64

Actually, crafting NEEDS players to not like crafting. Those that don't like crafting are the CUSTOMERS of crafters.

So thank you OP. Your business is much appreciated.

Yes ,

without people who don't like spend time to crafts , craftsman can't sell they product .

It natural for some don't like crafts work , but it don't mean game shouldn't have craft system because there are people who like crafting.

 

And why it fun ?

You created a item that no one can created and everyone want it ...  that's fun

You item that you created carry your name ... and people who use it know your name ... i think it fun

Remember

In lore , without legendary craftsman who crafted legendary items , there are no item for you to loot.

Some want to role as legend warriors , some want to role as legend craftsman.

 

Though in most game , craft system are simple , boring and annoying. Why you need to level up crafting skill in those game ?

That just another kind of grind

 

For that kind of system , just bring material to blacksmith NPC and ask them to created item , i think it work better than random item drop in instance . Kind of tired when i run a dungeon and get gears of other class that i can't use.

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