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General Discussion  » Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

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254 posts found
  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3305

2/04/14 11:13:24 AM#221

I'll just leave this here

 

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/pre-order-reactions/

 

Going to say that the author of the post above makes a good point about the faction system being lessened by the unlock choice; although I disagree with the lock choice being tied to races that affect game play anyways (wouldn't have mattered if the race choices had no baring on game play from a max level perspective though)


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  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2868

2/04/14 11:13:56 AM#222
Originally posted by Bad.dog
And the fun has just begun ...wait until folks get tired of running around in game looking like they have a carrot stuck up their ass

 Yeah, we really get to see what the game's made of after the first month or two of release. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  meupatrao

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/04/14
Posts: 7

2/04/14 11:15:37 AM#223
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by lafaiel
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

Or maybe, just maybe its not about the money but about not letting a company walk all over you there by setting a precedent for more of the same later on. Nice flame bait there though.  I'm already playing the I want to play so not interested in ESO but what do does affect me as it affects the whole industry.  I'm just lucky the game I play has no cash shop.

Which corresponds into the decision to buy or don't buy. You talk about the supposed hit to the industry or genre and you are correct. I don't like the current industry because of all the entitled  WoWers, and console kiddies have ruined a genre that I helped build. My railing at it at the top of my lungs didn't change anything tho.

If truth be told, a lot of my reason to buy this game is because it has a little bit of challenge built into it. Challenge thats been missing from MMO's the past 8 years. I am very happy that the pricing of the game will almost keep out the vast majority of people who would see that challenge changed so that they can play. Knowing this, I am HAPPY to pay extra to help the company recoup its investments and make a profit.

Totally agree! buy it or dont, stop complaining just because you cant afford it.   Im happy to pay extra too, this price will keep kids and crying trolls out of the game!!! o/

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 11:17:10 AM#224
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

I hope it sells record breaking numbers. 

 

Then I hope more hyped up and long awaited MMO's come out and do the same. Maybe pre-order at Gamestop for one race, pre-order at Amazon for another. And if you want all the content, you have to buy the super mega special edition. 

 

That's what we need, man! Box price+Monthly Fee+Fee to Unlock Playable Races (and hopefully, eventually, whole areas and story arcs)+Fee for vanity items+Fee For Expansions.

 

That would be so rad, I'm tellin' ya! Who cares about them people living in poverty that can't afford to pay more for basic extra stuff. 

 

;D

Never understood this argument.  If the above argument is true then that person should not be playing a game. Most of their focus should be on bettering themselves in Rl and not some MMO.  You might say, well what about when I am not at work. If the above is true you should be eating,sleeping, working, learning to better yourself. Anything else is pure laziness.

  ThumbtackJ

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 507

2/04/14 11:21:57 AM#225
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

I hope it sells record breaking numbers. 

 

Then I hope more hyped up and long awaited MMO's come out and do the same. Maybe pre-order at Gamestop for one race, pre-order at Amazon for another. And if you want all the content, you have to buy the super mega special edition. 

 

That's what we need, man! Box price+Monthly Fee+Fee to Unlock Playable Races (and hopefully, eventually, whole areas and story arcs)+Fee for vanity items+Fee For Expansions.

 

That would be so rad, I'm tellin' ya! Who cares about them people living in poverty that can't afford to pay more for basic extra stuff. 

 

;D

Never understood this argument.  If the above argument is true then that person should not be playing a game. Most of their focus should be on bettering themselves in Rl and not some MMO.  You might say, well what about when I am not at work. If the above is true you should be eating,sleeping, working, learning to better yourself. Anything else is pure laziness.

I'm lost. 

Om bhur bhuvah svah
tát savitúr váreniyam
bhárgo devásya dhimahi
dhíyo yó nah pracodáyat

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

2/04/14 11:22:32 AM#226
Originally posted by Margulis

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

The big issue:  This isn't a F2P game!  If it was you could get away with charging extra for an entire race, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE.  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this - what is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

So if they waited 2 months and offered this for the same price difference as an expansion would it make a difference? Don't mmos frequently add new races and such as expansions?

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 11:23:09 AM#227
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

I hope it sells record breaking numbers. 

 

Then I hope more hyped up and long awaited MMO's come out and do the same. Maybe pre-order at Gamestop for one race, pre-order at Amazon for another. And if you want all the content, you have to buy the super mega special edition. 

 

That's what we need, man! Box price+Monthly Fee+Fee to Unlock Playable Races (and hopefully, eventually, whole areas and story arcs)+Fee for vanity items+Fee For Expansions.

 

That would be so rad, I'm tellin' ya! Who cares about them people living in poverty that can't afford to pay more for basic extra stuff. 

 

;D

Never understood this argument.  If the above argument is true then that person should not be playing a game. Most of their focus should be on bettering themselves in Rl and not some MMO.  You might say, well what about when I am not at work. If the above is true you should be eating,sleeping, working, learning to better yourself. Anything else is pure laziness.

I'm lost. 

My point exactly.

  ThumbtackJ

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 507

2/04/14 11:32:44 AM#228
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

I hope it sells record breaking numbers. 

 

Then I hope more hyped up and long awaited MMO's come out and do the same. Maybe pre-order at Gamestop for one race, pre-order at Amazon for another. And if you want all the content, you have to buy the super mega special edition. 

 

That's what we need, man! Box price+Monthly Fee+Fee to Unlock Playable Races (and hopefully, eventually, whole areas and story arcs)+Fee for vanity items+Fee For Expansions.

 

That would be so rad, I'm tellin' ya! Who cares about them people living in poverty that can't afford to pay more for basic extra stuff. 

 

;D

Never understood this argument.  If the above argument is true then that person should not be playing a game. Most of their focus should be on bettering themselves in Rl and not some MMO.  You might say, well what about when I am not at work. If the above is true you should be eating,sleeping, working, learning to better yourself. Anything else is pure laziness.

I'm lost. 

My point exactly.

Still lost. I was just sarcastically pointing out that the acceptance of this behavior (from these large companies) from gamers like us can only lead to worse things inevitably. It starts out as a pay-gated race in a P2P+Box price MMO. Then what? Where does the lines get drawn? People are saying now, "It's only a race!", when will it be, "It's only one area/story arc/continent/etc."? 

 

Box Price+Monthly sub was fine, I'm more than down with that, and have been for the last 12 years. But when companies want to start double, triple, and even quad-dipping, it becomes a real problem. When you have Box Fees(and expansion)+Monthly Fees+Unlock Fees (for big ticket, main content stuff like races)+Item Shop Fees, that's poor business practice in my opinion. But it's even worse when consumers stand by and accept it.

Om bhur bhuvah svah
tát savitúr váreniyam
bhárgo devásya dhimahi
dhíyo yó nah pracodáyat

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 537

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/04/14 11:46:25 AM#229
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Where does the lines get drawn? People are saying now, "It's only a race!", when will it be, "It's only one area/story arc/continent/etc."? 

DLC? Expansion? They already do that.

However ...

If a game started selling areas/story arc/content as a pre-order or CE that can not be gotten any other way, then I would reject it.

As for the Imperial, it does not change the game.

 

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 689

2/04/14 11:51:12 AM#230
This is a new era, where companies charge for basic game feature like quickbar, title hide/show, helmet hide/show and add some more lame monetizing you can name. compared to that i don't think  zenimax is doing something really horrific. but they will obviously do something worse soon but as i have said we are in a new era, might as well get used to it.

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  Seelinnikoi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 582

2/04/14 11:59:21 AM#231

Please, let's have a moment and hear my words of wisdom...

 

*clears throat* 

 

If you want to be "heard", making forum threads will not solve the matter...

Speak with your wallet, do not buy it.

I dare anyone to disagree with me that the best way for us gamers to show disapproval is with our wallet.

And as long as the majority of gamers keep willingly paying full retail price for an 80% complete game and then buying the remaining 20% as DLC on release, the greedy companies will still keep doing it.

  kilun

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 692

2/04/14 12:15:33 PM#232
Originally posted by Cellarkid88
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by ImperialSun

I'm struggling to see how people did not see this type of announcement coming.....

It is clearly an acid test exercise......

Gate a core race behind an additional CE purchase in order to both maximise launch revenue and also assess community reaction.

This is basically just the first layer of framework before the game goes F2P with full on cash shop six months after launch.

Zeni are just dipping their toe in the water here in order to see what sorts of content they can get away with charging for when the game does move to a full F2P model shortly after release....

Welcome to the new world.....

Driz

I completely agree with this. It s truly a test, and a money grab.

It's simply outrageous that a company some $200m in the hole with investors to fund creation of a product, want to do something so dastardly as grab money when selling the product!

throwing money at a project != good product that is worth paying for

 

if you buy everything just because it had a big production-price-tag on it you need to review yourself as a consumer. I mean common guys we need to educate our children someday about the value and worth of money.

 

Future generations will be impacted if stuff like this is accepted.

You really just compared a life value lesson with buying a CE edition of a game, which if you bought on greenmangaming for 20% is $4.00 above retail asking price for the game?  Are you serious?  If you buy the physical edition for $20 more than digital you get an art book and a statue, which to some are worth $20.00.

Buying an MMO at release is one thing many like to do.  Most other games, imagine this one, MMO gamers wait until they are on sale.  I buy nearly every other game at 50-75% when they are on sale on steam.

Maybe people should worry about their own finances and educating their own children.  I read about people complaining about gamestop selling used games for $5.00 less than new games cost, yet offer them only 40% of what its worth.  Its called lazy people, they don't have to do anything other than walk into the store and sell it back.  Toss it on Ebay and make double that roughly (-15% of final value for eBay/paypal fees).   

 

  Dancwith

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/14
Posts: 15

2/04/14 12:52:37 PM#233

there is a lot more that just the CE, pre-orders and such that is turning me off from the game. Quite a bit.  the lack of information, poor beta participation, the quality of the play just within the streams.  Gotta be honest, this may be the first game in a decade i didn't pre-order or buy outright.

The quality of play i did get to see from people streaming was.......less than encouragable and Other than the lore, i'm not seeing much unique here.

I think I may practice the art of "Saving My Moneh!" or maybe just get wildstar instead.

 

  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

2/04/14 1:48:19 PM#234
Originally posted by dontadow
 

So if they waited 2 months and offered this for the same price difference as an expansion would it make a difference? Don't mmos frequently add new races and such as expansions?

Yes. You buy the expansion and pay the monthly fee and you are fine to go.

Yet i find it strange that only those who buy the "collector edition" of that expansion will be able to play that race.

 

It doesn't feel right when im paying a monthly sub to have Zenimax come to me and say

Zenimax "Hey look! we have a new race to for you to play! just pay us 20$!"

 

I could live with it in a f2p game. Totally fine.

But not in a subscription game

  merv808

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 486

baseball doesn't have it right. A man with 4 balls CANNOT walk.

2/04/14 2:04:34 PM#235

OMG! That guy has the same car as me, but he paid extra for the luxury edition. I paid less for the base model. I can't believe they gave him power windows, power locks, a moonroof, and a satellite radio. People should boycott the car companies, for giving extras to people that are willing to pay for them. If they don't give the luxury features to everyone, the base model customers will be in an uproar!!!! This is outrageous, I should be entitled to everything he is even though I paid less.

 

<a href="http://raptr.com/LegendaryTitan?src=em_all"><img alt="Raptr Gamercard" src="http://raptr.com/badge/LegendaryTitan/fs_overall.png" style="border: none;"></a>

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 459

2/04/14 2:15:18 PM#236
Originally posted by merv808

OMG! That guy has the same car as me, but he paid extra for the luxury edition. I paid less for the base model. I can't believe they gave him power windows, power locks, a moonroof, and a satellite radio. People should boycott the car companies, for giving extras to people that are willing to pay for them. If they don't give the luxury features to everyone, the base model customers will be in an uproar!!!! This is outrageous, I should be entitled to everything he is even though I paid less.

 

free to play and buy to play mentality. No a subscription based one. You want a better car analogy.

 

You have twins, you tell each you love them equally. But on their 18th birthday one gets an economy edition and the other gets a fully loaded addition. The one who got the standard edition ask why if you love us the same. The parents say well they were the one who came out first.

 

end of lesson.

  srsnoob

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/14
Posts: 44

2/04/14 2:19:31 PM#237
Originally posted by merv808

OMG! That guy has the same car as me, but he paid extra for the luxury edition. I paid less for the base model. I can't believe they gave him power windows, power locks, a moonroof, and a satellite radio. People should boycott the car companies, for giving extras to people that are willing to pay for them. If they don't give the luxury features to everyone, the base model customers will be in an uproar!!!! This is outrageous, I should be entitled to everything he is even though I paid less.

 

How about this comparison. The base model of the car comes missing a window on the passenger door. To have all the windows you need get the luxury edition. It's fair right? Because it's not like you absolutely have to have a window on every door. But of course no one would ever buy a new car missing a window because it's a feature we expect. Imperial race its not an "extra". Basically what they did was flip a switch so that the imperial race will be grayed out for everyone except those that bought the Imperial edition. I'm sure they did this because of pressure from higher up. I can't imagine the people actually developing the game wanting to do something like this.

  drgran

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/06
Posts: 191

2/04/14 2:23:33 PM#238

I pre-ordered Southpark: Stick of Truth instead of this game. 

It can wait. 

ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB

  MurlockDance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

2/04/14 3:39:00 PM#239

Well, I won't be getting it because of letting any race play any faction. One of the things that made DAoC great in the old days was the realm pride. People would do crazy things and pull lots of hours in order to defend their keeps in the frontiers from the enemy realms. The feelings were so powerful and it made us play better together, our realms had such strong solidarity, even if forum drama was massive between realms. It was one of the best experiences I ever had in any MMORPG. Things like language barrier, alienness that makes your enemies more threatening because they are different from you, different skills, classes, etc all have a deep psychological impact.

It disappeared when Mythic began to let people cross realm on the same server. It was one of the worst things Mythic did outside of the ToA expansion.

I have not had such intense feelings in an MMORPG since DAoC and I long for them in an RvR game. The closest I got was in WAR, but it really needed three factions.

Shame that Zenimax are dropping the ball.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  Arataki

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 243

2/04/14 4:19:49 PM#240
The "slippery slope" fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. Stop using it.
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