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General Discussion  » Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

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254 posts found
  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 534

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/04/14 9:23:37 AM#201
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Thornrage

I've seen a lot of whining and complaining on these forums, but this one has got to be one of the worst.

 

My first MMO, SWG, offered a special item for the Collector's Edition. That item was a pair of goggles. Only CE players got them and if I remember correctly, they could not be traded. I might be wrong on that one. Sure they were just goggles but SWG was a game that many people prided themselves on what they owned mainly due to being able to display such items in their houses.

Later I got City of Heroes and was able to get a cool sliding effect for the CE. Many asked me where I got it and wished they had it.

LoTRo gave me some in-game tokens for the CE, Age of Conan gave me a cape and a ring, DC Universe gave me the bat drone,  WoW: Burning Crusade CE gave me an in-game pet, SWTOR: CE gave me several in game items.

So why is it any different this time?

Oh look, I get to play as Imperial! It is not a new RACE, it is merely a skin of the human race. Zenimax has stated that the racial abilities are on equal standing with all races. I would love to be able to join any faction with any race, and this allows that, however, does it really change that game all that much if you have to play certain races for certain factions? In WoW, I liked playing on the Horde side but hated all of the races. I prefer to play human in all MMO's and was able to play Blood Elf as a compromise. Did that mean I hated playing the game? No.

Simple thing is that if you are not happy with what Zenimax has done, then it is your choice what you do about it. I will play the game and if I find that it is not fun, then I will move on. I have spent more money on lesser things.

I will enjoy the extra perks I get for pre-ordering the CE and have no regrets.

The fact that you dont know the difference between an in game RACE and all that other stuff you listed is sad, especially considering the number of games you have played.

The fact that you can't understand that the game doesnt change at all because of the CE is sad. What extra do you get for being an Imperial? What new content in the game do you get for being an Imperial? Nothing changes except that you can be a human that is Imperial. Not an new RACE. If I did not get the CE and you did, I would still be able to play the very same game you are playing. The difference would be that you get to be Imperial with a horse and other stuff. Just like it is with other CEs for other games.

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 9:27:54 AM#202

I don't buy collectors editions of games... ever. Some mount or pet just doesn't do it for me.

 

I did buy this collectors edition and i thank you Zenimax for giving me a reason to do so.

 

Forgive all of these self entitled people who have been raised on welfare attitudes  who think they have a say in how you developed a game. They have 2 choices. Buy or don't buy. Otherwise they should shut up.

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 534

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/04/14 9:31:27 AM#203
Originally posted by Ruien

 They have 2 choices. Buy or don't buy. Otherwise they should shut up.

I disagree. I think they have a right to complain if they feel it is necessary. Otherwise, these forums would need to be shut down.

Only in this situation, I don't think there is much to complain about.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 434

2/04/14 9:34:40 AM#204
Originally posted by Thornrage
 

The fact that you can't understand that the game doesnt change at all because of the CE is sad. What extra do you get for being an Imperial? What new content in the game do you get for being an Imperial? Nothing changes except that you can be a human that is Imperial. Not an new RACE. If I did not get the CE and you did, I would still be able to play the very same game you are playing. The difference would be that you get to be Imperial with a horse and other stuff. Just like it is with other CEs for other games.

Again youre mistaken. Imperial is a RACE in this game. You get special passive for it. Can people play Imperial Sorcerors? Not explained fully But I suspect that an Imperial will be able to play any of the four core classes.

 

Also whether the Imperial RACE is humaniod or not isnt know either. Can you make a Nord Imperial? or  Khajiit Imperial? Not know one could assume not since Imperial is a race not a class.

 

But the fact tht it is so confusing and seemingly thrown in last minute is why they shouldnt have done it in the first place. At least without an in depth explanation.

 

But rest assured once the game launches they will worry about how they 'fix' that stuff and whatever choce they make will rest solely on what side they think will make them more money.

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 9:36:42 AM#205
Originally posted by Thornrage
Originally posted by Ruien

 They have 2 choices. Buy or don't buy. Otherwise they should shut up.

I disagree. I think they have a right to complain if they feel it is necessary. Otherwise, these forums would need to be shut down.

Only in this situation, I don't think there is much to complain about.

And these forums being shut down or become something better than the stinking pile of vomit everyone spews?

 

What gives anyone a right to tell anyone else how to spend their money. As a consumer, and thats what we all are, the ONLY right we have is to buy or dont buy. Once we have bought, then we pick up a few more rights.

 

Most people on this sight think that if they dont buy, no one should buy. They also have this inflated sense of self to think that if they dont buy, the game will fail.

 

I dont know why I come to this site other than after reading some of its forums I get to thinking, the new World order "might" not be such a bad idea.

  ChromeBallz

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 274

2/04/14 9:38:44 AM#206


Originally posted by Margulis
I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

The big issue:  This isn't a F2P game!  If it was you could get away with charging extra for an entire race, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE.  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this - what is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.


You have never seen or heard of any collector's edition before at all i take it?

Playing: EVE
Played (more than 1 month): WoW, Tera, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
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  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 434

2/04/14 9:39:51 AM#207
Originally posted by Ruien

I don't buy collectors editions of games... ever. Some mount or pet just doesn't do it for me.

 

I did buy this collectors edition and i thank you Zenimax for giving me a reason to do so.

 

Forgive all of these self entitled people who have been raised on welfare attitudes  who think they have a say in how you developed a game. They have 2 choices. Buy or don't buy. Otherwise they should shut up.

Its not 'entitlement' and I love how that has become the catch phrase for everyone concerning this issue. It call paying a frigging subscription. EVERYONE should have the same things. if they want to give out pre order shit then let it be like all the other shit other games have given. There is a reason why that stuff was bland, because it didnt HAVE to be any good because people were going to buy the game anyway.

 

When people need an excuse or a reason to pre order a game then that really says it all. When a company feels they also need to give these reasons that says even more.

 

I would love to say once this thing crashes and burns and people come to that realization it will mean something but it wont. because SWOTOR is less than 18 month ago and it did the same exact thing, and that was just the latest. Names any game basically in the past 8 years (other than RIFT) that delivered anything remotely comparable to what people thought they were getting?

 

Buy to pay sure, sell AL the classes and races if you want. Subscription no way.

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 534

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/04/14 9:42:52 AM#208
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by Thornrage
Originally posted by Ruien

 They have 2 choices. Buy or don't buy. Otherwise they should shut up.

I disagree. I think they have a right to complain if they feel it is necessary. Otherwise, these forums would need to be shut down.

Only in this situation, I don't think there is much to complain about.

And these forums being shut down or become something better than the stinking pile of vomit everyone spews?

lol

I agree there are many here that just love to bash a game over and over. I never understood how some can hate on a game even months after they have stopped playing. Just not something I am capable of.

If a game turns out to be a disappointment, I might make a comment about it but I move on. Some here do not know how to move on.

But there are some here who make very valid points. After SWTOR released there were many valid posts about the game. Still, even though it was a let down, I find myself playing it from time to time.

I would rather these forums remain, gives us all a chance to voice our opinion. We just have to sift through the muck ... a lot.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

2/04/14 9:47:22 AM#209

F2P in 6 months

That said, I may buy the physical collectors edition because I like collecting things and that box set is worth the collection value to me.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
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Warhammer - Xpiher

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 9:49:06 AM#210

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

2/04/14 9:52:14 AM#211
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

You are just wrong. The race locks were chosen during the design phase as "necessary for the MMO to work" and then they pull the "oh you want to play any race in any faction just give us extra money!" card because well, they know it will sell. I couldn't careless about imperial THAT'S A GIMMICK to me, but going back on design decisions in this way is simply a money grab. But I guess they have to recoup their investment somehow. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 9:55:13 AM#212
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

You are just wrong. The race locks were chosen during the design phase as "necessary for the MMO to work" and then they pull the "oh you want to play any race in any faction just give us extra money!" card because well, they know it will sell. I couldn't careless about imperial THAT'S A GIMMICK to me, but going back on design decisions in this way is simply a money grab. But I guess they have to recoup their investment somehow. 

Like I said, manufactured indignation over a design choice. Your still going to buy tho from an earlier post you made.

  lafaiel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/05
Posts: 96

2/04/14 9:56:12 AM#213
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

Or maybe, just maybe its not about the money but about not letting a company walk all over you there by setting a precedent for more of the same later on. Nice flame bait there though.  I'm already playing the I want to play so not interested in ESO but what do does affect me as it affects the whole industry.  I'm just lucky the game I play has no cash shop.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2986

I actually still like MMORPGs

2/04/14 10:00:08 AM#214
The average non-forum goer gamer isn't even going to realize some people think this is a bad decision. Get over it.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

2/04/14 10:01:17 AM#215
Originally posted by Ruien
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

You are just wrong. The race locks were chosen during the design phase as "necessary for the MMO to work" and then they pull the "oh you want to play any race in any faction just give us extra money!" card because well, they know it will sell. I couldn't careless about imperial THAT'S A GIMMICK to me, but going back on design decisions in this way is simply a money grab. But I guess they have to recoup their investment somehow. 

Like I said, manufactured indignation over a design choice. Your still going to buy tho from an earlier post you made.

I'm just calling it how I see it. The physical collectors edition is worth the price TO ME because of the physical stuff it comes with. I was planning on buying it regardless of the in game extras it comes with because : its limited 2 I like Elder Scrolls swag. But don't mistake this as me saying that what they are doing with the race-unlock is justified. Its not. Its a money grab since it was put in place in the beginning stages of the game design to "make it work for an MMO" when its could have easily been scrapped and been a lore choice. People were like "wtf why!?" and "Man I wish I could play Drummer but play for the Daggerfall Covenant" and those cries made zenimax/bethesda see $$


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 434

2/04/14 10:03:46 AM#216
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

LMAO really? I SUBSCRIBE to Vanguard for crying out loud. It isnt about the money. Its the principle. Why reward games/companies that do this over and over and over again?

 

They took the two things people bitched about the most and USED them. Its really that simple. If they could have found a way to charge for first person I am sure they would have done that at well. But theyj ust said it was impossible for them to do it, and then a couple months later at PAX they 'revealed' they had figured it out. Gimme a frigging break.

 

If I did have a free to play mentality like you claim I WOULD have bought it because thats how those guys think, hmm I spenf "just' 20 bucksmore and I get a whole new race? Well I was going to buy it anyway might as well spend the extra 20 bux and get it all". Which in a sub game and people who pay a sub understand that concept you should get it all for the same price as everyone else. 

 

Also in conjunction with that they offered a 25% coupon off either pre order. so more marketing. That then lets some people justify the purchase by saying, well theyre now giving me the Imperial edition for the same price as the original standard edition so it all evens out I suppose.

 

But it doesnt because when the game is free for everyone to play then everyone will get that stuff for the same price if not cheaper. The only 'advantage' at that point will be guys will have been playing since April.

 

But it will continue the precedent that peopel WILL pay extra for stuff even if the game is subscription.

 

Dont think Wildstar isnt watching this as well. Dont be surprised if they do something similar or maybe even push it alittle more, even if ESO 'fails' to deliver in the game play department.

 

Used to be having a subscription made it 'safe' from cash grabs and selling shit in a store, not so anymore. The arguments the guys made about this game having a sub are mot. I told them that back in August, but they didnt want ot hear it. I said it should be buy to pay because I saw this coming. Said so on the Bethesda boards.

 

But whatever no one is going to convice anyone to change their minds but there might still be a few on thefence and those are the ones who need the 'information'.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2153

2/04/14 10:03:52 AM#217
I blame the gamers for this and not the companies, just suck it up It's your fault.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  meupatrao

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/04/14
Posts: 7

2/04/14 10:05:00 AM#218

If you think that the company is abusing you, just dont buy the game, its simple, crying about it will not change the fact.

I completely agree if this guys over there, all this crying its just because they cant afford. I will buy the imperial version just because a can and its the best version, I dont give a shit about the itens included.

 

  ThumbtackJ

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 471

2/04/14 10:05:02 AM#219

I hope it sells record breaking numbers. 

 

Then I hope more hyped up and long awaited MMO's come out and do the same. Maybe pre-order at Gamestop for one race, pre-order at Amazon for another. And if you want all the content, you have to buy the super mega special edition. 

 

That's what we need, man! Box price+Monthly Fee+Fee to Unlock Playable Races (and hopefully, eventually, whole areas and story arcs)+Fee for vanity items+Fee For Expansions.

 

That would be so rad, I'm tellin' ya! Who cares about them people living in poverty that can't afford to pay more for basic extra stuff. 

 

;D

Om bhur bhuvah svah
tát savitúr váreniyam
bhárgo devásya dhimahi
dhíyo yó nah pracodáyat

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

2/04/14 10:08:15 AM#220
Originally posted by lafaiel
Originally posted by Ruien

@rodarin

 

Your argument and that of the vast majority of people complaining stems from the fact you either cant afford the game in some way, or your used to a F2P like setup. When something comes along that interests you but locks itself away financially you get all uppity.

 

Alot of the uproar here is due to this and no matter how well you try and disguise yourself behind manufactured indignation over some design decision, the true reason is that you are mad you have to pay for this game.

 

 

Or maybe, just maybe its not about the money but about not letting a company walk all over you there by setting a precedent for more of the same later on. Nice flame bait there though.  I'm already playing the I want to play so not interested in ESO but what do does affect me as it affects the whole industry.  I'm just lucky the game I play has no cash shop.

Which corresponds into the decision to buy or don't buy. You talk about the supposed hit to the industry or genre and you are correct. I don't like the current industry because of all the entitled  WoWers, and console kiddies have ruined a genre that I helped build. My railing at it at the top of my lungs didn't change anything tho.

If truth be told, a lot of my reason to buy this game is because it has a little bit of challenge built into it. Challenge thats been missing from MMO's the past 8 years. I am very happy that the pricing of the game will almost keep out the vast majority of people who would see that challenge changed so that they can play. Knowing this, I am HAPPY to pay extra to help the company recoup its investments and make a profit.

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