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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What's Next, Pay Extra to Unlock Certain Classes?

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175 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19463

2/02/14 11:13:30 AM#141
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

It amazes me how many people feel it's ok to do this type of stuff and defend it. It really begs the question ... where is the limit for these people who think it's ok? Imperials are a base race in the elder scrolls series. You shouldn't have to pay for it. Those who defend it, I ask where is the limit then? Where do you draw the line?

No limit for me. I just don't pay. I don't have to participate to support dev's right to do whatever they want with their game. Plus, it is not up to you anyway.

No matter what they put into the cash shop, i can simply ignore. If the game is free part is fun enough, i will play and there are plenty of free fun MMOs out there.

(Of course it only applies to MMO .. i gladly pay for games like Dishonored, or The ROOM, just not MMO).

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12102

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

2/02/14 11:19:07 AM#142
Originally posted by LuciferIAm

Nearly replied with a lengthy  rape analogy but decided not to.

People who defend consumer gouging are just the worst. They truly, truly are. "You don't like X asking you to bend over? Then don't present yourself"

Talk about how a company owns whatever and they can do what they want with it all you want but heres the thing. These companies exploit casuals en masse and/or people with simply little sense. They dangle some type of carrot in front of themm only to send them through a buttspanking machine on the way there.

Now when another company sees that delightful sadistic scene they jump at the chance to create their own carots and ass slappin machines. Why? Because as so many people like to point out, its business. Guess the big ol secret about business? Come on, you know it. You got this. They aren't your friends. Surprise!

The people dictating the gouging of the customer do it because it makes more money. This causes others to do the same because surprise they want more money. So many businesses are currently archaicly f'n the customer over on a daily basis because simply most of the sheeple don't know any better. Those that do often have to listen to sheeple defend said businesses.

I find the worst of these to be those who respond with the whole you don't like it then don't buy it schtick. Do you really not understand what you're doing? You're giving companies liscence to freely continue to release lower and lower quality products. YOU are hurting the industry by being a sheep.

Sadly these same people often spout out the if it's so bad 'it should be proven with your wallet' junk. I'll refer you to the exploitation of those who know no better.

So, I pose these questions to those who so often defend terrible consumer gouging practices. Claiming that because it is simply entertainment that somehow makes it ok.

"Why do you want future games to suck? Don't you enjoy playing games? Do you look forward to paying 5 dollars to move 5 spaces?"

Hell if you're still going to reply with the entertainment part, then think about some of the developers out there who love what they do. But their bosses ruin their passions with greed. They sadly still need their jobs to survive, it's not like they can tell their bosses to f' off. Instead it's up to their fans to show the businesses we won't take their gouging with a 'Yes, Please'.

Sure, some devs don't fit said bill. But it's clear many do when you hear them speak about their work. They pour their hearts and souls into their games. Only for their hard work to be marred by greed.

Somehow people justify their negativity towards outspoken words against companies by again making the entertainment claim. But attaching entertainment moniker to games as if thats all they are is a travesty. I'm willing to bet nearly all of us have had wonderful social interactions with fellow enthusiasts. Made long lasting friends along the way. Made memories we will never forget. Maybe even found love. So what if it's on a virtual plane, how does that make it any less significant?

In junior or senior year, you'll probably take an economy or business class of some sort. When you get there, show your teacher this post so that he knows the uphill battle he will be facing. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

2/02/14 11:21:53 AM#143
Originally posted by anemo
You already do with expansions.

 Thats just it...I dont think alot of people realize that they pay for them im p2p games also...I dont have a problem with premium classes as long as there are a few good ones for free too.....

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

2/02/14 11:54:49 AM#144

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19463

2/02/14 12:06:30 PM#145
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

2/02/14 12:13:26 PM#146
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

That is actually a completely different argument. That is your argument, not the one that I was referring to. And I agree with your argument. Don't buy the game if you are uncomfortable with their payment model.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  funyahns

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 313

2/02/14 12:17:30 PM#147
 I have no problem with F2P games doing it. I have a problem with P2P games doing it though. So I am going to not buy it, and make sure other people know about it too. If you can get enough people on your side and they suffer through bad sales or bad publicity then maybe they will change their minds. Pretty much with what happened to Xbox last year when all that negative feedback hit them.  The biggest problem I had with the ordeal was acting like Pay gates are to good for them and subs should handle the entire thing.  Dishonesty is something I do not like in any company that wants me to spend money there.
  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/03/14 12:59:49 AM#148
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

 

Or, they can now pay their gamers for the time spent playing the game. Have already over 356 days of actual play time in WoW (not just standing in Stormwind) and the minimum wage of around $8hr = $68,352.

 

Upon that sum I'd gladly leave the game, since now I'm paid a wage for putting up with the BS in these games, including trolling devs which isn't part of the ToS/EULA.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5213

2/03/14 4:49:25 AM#149
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by BeansnBread
Originally posted by anemo
You already do with expansions.

Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

/facepalm

Ya, that's the point. You don't get the class UNLESS you buy the expansion.

True but an expansion is released after a MMO launches. This is building an expansion into the launch which gets us into paying extra for something they have already made for launch. It is in effect holding back on material from the get go. Much like Dragon Age held back sections of its game and expected us to pay extra.

When you think of all the cash shop abuse that goes on in a F2P MMO it should be no surprise that P2P MMMOs start to take on bad practice as well.

That is the state of play in the MMO genre now, nothing they do will surprise me, gaming ethos is dead.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/03/14 4:56:34 AM#150
Originally posted by Dewguy79
But you do get the full game.  In most cases if you don't buy that race or class you will still be able to play the full game.  It will have no impact on your game.  Just because another player buys it doesn't mean he gets into new content. 

Except for not having a race that's been in Elder Scrolls for over 10 years without paying extra for.

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 468

2/03/14 4:58:02 AM#151

For everyone continue use "expansion packs" compare .

You can't play the game without expansion pack (except in some games)

It difference than pay extra cash to unlock something that ready exit in game client but blocked by your "no extra" account . (that you can still play the game without that extra paid)

 

Though i don't like way they do but i hope enough people paid for it so we will get better TES IV game

 

Also it depend on the mass to tell that Zenimax do right or wrong move.

If the mass see it "right" , they get money , if wrong then they doomed .

As for myself , i cast my vote that they do wrong move.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

2/03/14 5:24:28 AM#152

I do not understand all these free-market advocates, who defend supplier behaviors in terms that suggest our decisions as consumers must be taken in silent isolation; without receiving or giving input through public discussion.

 

  Lienhart

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/07
Posts: 673

2/03/14 7:21:39 AM#153
Originally posted by Xssiv

However, when a developer chooses to charge a box price + sub, then believes it's OK to charge an additional fee to give players access to all classes, we are treading on a slippery slope that simply will not end well for most gamers.

Do you know what's wrong with this statement?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19463

2/03/14 11:40:22 AM#154
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

 

Or, they can now pay their gamers for the time spent playing the game. Have already over 356 days of actual play time in WoW (not just standing in Stormwind) and the minimum wage of around $8hr = $68,352.

 

Upon that sum I'd gladly leave the game, since now I'm paid a wage for putting up with the BS in these games, including trolling devs which isn't part of the ToS/EULA.

You are kidding me .... your spend the time voluntary inside the game to have fun. In fact, sometimes you pay for that privilege.

Do you get to ask movie theaters to pay you 2 hours of minimum wage to watch movies too.

If gaming feels like work to you, you should quit.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12102

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

2/03/14 6:05:28 PM#155
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

If you are referring to expansions there, I agree. It's paying for expansions that you are saying is absurd, right? 

 

"Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way."

NO ONE thought that way. If they did, expansions would have never caught on. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

2/03/14 6:17:17 PM#156
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

If you are referring to expansions there, I agree. It's paying for expansions that you are saying is absurd, right? 

It's a value argument. $20 for a race is not that same as $40 for a ton of content, races, classes, dungeons, features, zones, quests, raids, the list goes on and on. It is sometimes even a complete transformation of the game itself. The sheer scale of both of the purchases should be obvious to anyone that considers it for even a few seconds. And like the race unlock, everyone has to make that same value judgement. Is a paying for a single race worth $20 in a sub game? Is this specific expansion worth $40 in a sub game?

 

The value difference is so extreme as to make both purchases barely comparable. That's why the argument is absurd to people that have been playing sub games for a long time. 

 

"Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way."

NO ONE thought that way. If they did, expansions would have never caught on. 

Actually, obviously people DO feel this way about putting specific races behind a cash shop in a sub game. And obviously people did not feel that way about expansions.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19463

2/03/14 7:09:01 PM#157
Originally posted by BeansnBread
 

It's a value argument. $20 for a race is not that same as $40 for a ton of content, races, classes, dungeons, features, zones, quests, raids, the list goes on and on. It is sometimes even a complete transformation of the game itself. The sheer scale of both of the purchases should be obvious to anyone that considers it for even a few seconds. And like the race unlock, everyone has to make that same value judgement. Is a paying for a single race worth $20 in a sub game? Is this specific expansion worth $40 in a sub game?

Then it is just a matter of price. If the cost of unlock is $5 .. or $1 .. you will agree that there is no problem?

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

2/03/14 7:12:48 PM#158
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BeansnBread

It's a value argument. $20 for a race is not that same as $40 for a ton of content, races, classes, dungeons, features, zones, quests, raids, the list goes on and on. It is sometimes even a complete transformation of the game itself. The sheer scale of both of the purchases should be obvious to anyone that considers it for even a few seconds. And like the race unlock, everyone has to make that same value judgement. Is a paying for a single race worth $20 in a sub game? Is this specific expansion worth $40 in a sub game?

Then it is just a matter of price. If the cost of unlock is $5 .. or $1 .. you will agree that there is no problem?

I've probably said like 19 times in this thread that I think they can charge whatever they want for their product. Even in direct response to YOU, I said the following:

 

But, like I've said before, it's fine that they're asking for it, I just personally don't like that type of payment model in a sub game whether it be in WoW or any other sub game.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/03/14 7:22:42 PM#159
Originally posted by BeansnBread

Actually, obviously people DO feel this way about putting specific races behind a cash shop in a sub game. And obviously people did not feel that way about expansions.

As we're paying for content that has included everything in an expansion.

 

When it becomes an expansion + pay for a different race/class, then it no longer is a deal. It feels every bit like milking players for more cash.

 

It's the perception of value for your money that matters. Sub players who play full-time pay around $360 -- per client -- to play an expansion, and that's why in WoW it better have everything related to that expansion in it. WoW expansions come with a race/class as players truly pay for everything in that expansion. Players don't get so upset with cosmetics, since it has nothing to do with the expansion they paid for...but the moment it does...they'll riot.

 

Themepark game we're paying for a All-Expansion wrist bracelet to play everything in the game. Food and souvenirs are extra, and folks understand that. Not paying an extra fee on top of that wrist bracelet on a new ride.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5213

2/04/14 4:26:00 AM#160

You pay a subscription for minor content updates. You buy and expansion for major content updates.That's a perfectly fair working model.

What ESO have done is the equivalent of what NeverWinter did, who were selling items in their cash shop before launch. Here ESO is selling content at extra cost at launch. Both are bad practice.

But as I said before there is no such thing as bad practise in MMOs now, they just charge and do what they like.

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