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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » New data settles it, F2P makes much more money than P2P

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513 posts found
  plat0nic

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/03
Posts: 303

2/01/14 7:28:28 PM#481
Originally posted by boxsnd

It's not really that hard to figure out yourself F2P is the business model of the future. So many P2P MMOs were on the brink of destruction, switched to F2P and are doing fine now. Even WoW is preparing for the F2P switch. It's time for P2P fans to face reality.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with F2P as long as it's not P2W. The only people who are against F2P are those who don't understand it and confuse it with P2W.

You are right sir. As long as it is not P2W I am all for P2P.


Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  Gestankfaust

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 1097

Very well. If you will not stop trolling threads, then I shall say.....NI!!

2/01/14 7:43:24 PM#482
Originally posted by plat0nic
Originally posted by boxsnd

It's not really that hard to figure out yourself F2P is the business model of the future. So many P2P MMOs were on the brink of destruction, switched to F2P and are doing fine now. Even WoW is preparing for the F2P switch. It's time for P2P fans to face reality.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with F2P as long as it's not P2W. The only people who are against F2P are those who don't understand it and confuse it with P2W.

You are right sir. As long as it is not P2W I am all for P2P.

lol....wow

F2P offers nothing to the person that likes MMOs the way they were...period.

Name one F2P game I should be playing?

"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  GuyClinch

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 477

2/01/14 9:54:24 PM#483

There are some smart people working at Carbine and  Zenimax  and yet they didn't go with the free to play model.

Why?

1) A good P2P MMO is FAR MORE PROFiTABLE then a free to play MMO. Even league of legends can't touch WoW. They are a money printing machine.

2) Going pay to play - then buy to play - then free to play will likely bring in more revenue then just starting off as free to play and throwing up pay walls.

3) Free to Play fans are only look at revenue and not profit. Its true the aggregrate of free to play games brings in more revenue. But video game code is sunk cost. It costs these guys x amount of dollars to code up the game. So its very often then a losing game could be put out there and bring in revenue - because SOME revenue will offset the sunk costs.

The model everyone WANTS - even league of legends is World of Warcrafts business model. A game so loved that people will pay for even when they aren't playing it much. You aren't going to convince business types Free to Play is where its at. The only major MMO coming out thats free to play is EQ:N and those guys are trying to enslave the game players to design their game..

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/02/14 12:51:13 AM#484
Originally posted by Gestankfaust

F2P offers nothing to the person that likes MMOs the way they were...period.

+1

 

EQII went to F2P and we got less than we did with a sub.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/02/14 3:01:35 AM#485
Originally posted by laokoko
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yes. But the strategy did depend on enough hype & marketing to get that initial year of box sales & subs ... otherwise, just skip to stage 2 with a hybrid F2P/sub/cash shop system.

Personally with so many games, and already turned F2P MMOs, i won't ever sub again.

That's the reason many people hate F2P.  While you can play for free.  Many people need to pay way more if they want to experience the full game.

"Many people need to pay"? Most players don't. I guess not as many want to experience the "full" game as one would think.

In fact, why do i need a full game when i can just move onto to the next game. It is not like I buy all the DLCs, and expansion if i play a single player game.

And so what if others hate F2P, it is not like i depend on them to have fun.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/02/14 3:03:11 AM#486
Originally posted by Gestankfaust
 

 

F2P offers nothing to the person that likes MMOs the way they were...period.

Name one F2P game I should be playing?

Great .. i don't like MMOs the way they were anyway .. so it is all good for me.

How should i know what you like? Game choices are all personal anyway. One man's fun game is another man's chore and vice versa. I don't know what F2P game you should be playing, nor do i care .. but i know which one is fun for me.

 

  Gaendric

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/04
Posts: 279

2/02/14 3:33:15 AM#487
Originally posted by Gestankfaust
Originally posted by plat0nic
Originally posted by boxsnd

It's not really that hard to figure out yourself F2P is the business model of the future. So many P2P MMOs were on the brink of destruction, switched to F2P and are doing fine now. Even WoW is preparing for the F2P switch. It's time for P2P fans to face reality.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with F2P as long as it's not P2W. The only people who are against F2P are those who don't understand it and confuse it with P2W.

You are right sir. As long as it is not P2W I am all for P2P.

lol....wow

F2P offers nothing to the person that likes MMOs the way they were...period.

Name one F2P game I should be playing?

 

If you like oldschool MMORPGs then current F2P games prolly won't serve you well. I agree on that. 

 

 

The mind projection fallacy is the assumption that our subjective judgments (or lack thereof) reflect intrinsic qualities of objects or reality in general.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/02/14 3:36:11 AM#488
Originally posted by Gaendric

If you like oldschool MMORPGs then current F2P games prolly won't serve you well. I agree on that. 

 

 

Psst...The target audience were P2P customers, and that 800lb gorilla in the room IS P2P.

 

For F2P to be successful it needs WoW players to "try" their game, and to stay to play...not run back to WoW in 30 days.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/02/14 11:21:21 AM#489
Originally posted by Gaendric

 

 

If you like oldschool MMORPGs then current F2P games prolly won't serve you well. I agree on that. 

 

 

So the growth of f2p, and the decline of sub-only games is a sign that the majority don't care for oldschool MMORPGs?

I suppose that is true. Personally, i don't like old school mmorpgs .. newer modern ones are much better games.

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1916

2/02/14 11:33:51 AM#490
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yes. But the strategy did depend on enough hype & marketing to get that initial year of box sales & subs ... otherwise, just skip to stage 2 with a hybrid F2P/sub/cash shop system.

Personally with so many games, and already turned F2P MMOs, i won't ever sub again.

That's the reason many people hate F2P.  While you can play for free.  Many people need to pay way more if they want to experience the full game.

"Many people need to pay"? Most players don't. I guess not as many want to experience the "full" game as one would think.

In fact, why do i need a full game when i can just move onto to the next game. It is not like I buy all the DLCs, and expansion if i play a single player game.

And so what if others hate F2P, it is not like i depend on them to have fun.

 

I suppose the F2P part are usually solo and leveling phase.  Usually when you reach end game that's where you start to play with people.  That's when the developer are trying to get you to pay.

In that sense you probably have more fun playing single player game.  Not that I endorse pirating game.  You might as well go play single player game.  In which they make a better single player game compare to mmorpg.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/02/14 12:12:11 PM#491
Originally posted by laokoko
 

I suppose the F2P part are usually solo and leveling phase.  Usually when you reach end game that's where you start to play with people.  That's when the developer are trying to get you to pay.

In that sense you probably have more fun playing single player game.  Not that I endorse pirating game.  You might as well go play single player game.  In which they make a better single player game compare to mmorpg.

Yes, I play SP games. You are not under the illusion that i only play MMO, do you?

However, that is no reason not to play *some* MMOs that i like. In fact, i play them as SP games .. and don't tell me this crap about SP games are all better.

There is no better recent diablo clone in the marvel universe than Marvel Heroes .. because that is the only one (more like a marvel ultimate alliance clone).

Oh, i have no problem paying for SP games .. i just don't pay for sub-only MMOs.

 

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

2/02/14 1:39:37 PM#492
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

Psst...The target audience were P2P customers, and that 800lb gorilla in the room IS P2P. 

For F2P to be successful it needs WoW players to "try" their game, and to stay to play...not run back to WoW in 30 days.

Remember, the revenue generating portion of the F2P model is the cash shop, and WoW has one of those.  It isn't "pure" P2P, and hasn't been for a long time.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/02/14 2:44:23 PM#493
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

Psst...The target audience were P2P customers, and that 800lb gorilla in the room IS P2P. 

For F2P to be successful it needs WoW players to "try" their game, and to stay to play...not run back to WoW in 30 days.

Remember, the revenue generating portion of the F2P model is the cash shop, and WoW has one of those.  It isn't "pure" P2P, and hasn't been for a long time.

yeah .. there is no sub-only game any more ... the only question is whether a game has a free portion .. and even WOW can be played to L20 for free.

 

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1916

2/02/14 7:16:36 PM#494
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
 

I suppose the F2P part are usually solo and leveling phase.  Usually when you reach end game that's where you start to play with people.  That's when the developer are trying to get you to pay.

In that sense you probably have more fun playing single player game.  Not that I endorse pirating game.  You might as well go play single player game.  In which they make a better single player game compare to mmorpg.

Yes, I play SP games. You are not under the illusion that i only play MMO, do you?

However, that is no reason not to play *some* MMOs that i like. In fact, i play them as SP games .. and don't tell me this crap about SP games are all better.

There is no better recent diablo clone in the marvel universe than Marvel Heroes .. because that is the only one (more like a marvel ultimate alliance clone).

Oh, i have no problem paying for SP games .. i just don't pay for sub-only MMOs.

 

I'm under the illusion you only care about what you want base on your post.

Most of your response is like "oh you like that, I don't.  Good thing I don't care about you.  But I still bother to respond"

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

2/02/14 9:11:50 PM#495
Didn't apple just lose a lawsuit for selling apps to children?

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/03/14 5:11:31 AM#496
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

Psst...The target audience were P2P customers, and that 800lb gorilla in the room IS P2P. 

For F2P to be successful it needs WoW players to "try" their game, and to stay to play...not run back to WoW in 30 days.

Remember, the revenue generating portion of the F2P model is the cash shop, and WoW has one of those.  It isn't "pure" P2P, and hasn't been for a long time.

Difference is WoW doesn't depend on their cash shop to remain open. F2P needs their cash shop to even operate.

  Doomedfox

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

2/03/14 5:28:58 AM#497
Originally posted by nariusseldon

reposting the link from another topic:

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/

But the point is:

In the top 10 money making games (and most listed here on MMORPG.com), all but ONE is sub-only (WOW).

And wow is only #7, and making less than half compared to LoL.

This pretty much shows that to make money, F2P beats P2P, and often you don't even need a virtual world.

I suppose its save to assume that the numbers are an average per person right?

After all to support your claim all the games would need the same amount of players otherwise its just a bad joke to make a statement like yours.

But wait isnt  that a list that only shows the cashshop income and doesnt factor in the actually income of the subs?

I dont know man but if i would make a claim i at least would think for a sec about the source i use to back the claim up and a source that does not even show the sub income or takes the total playerbase into consideration is not a source i would use lol

 

  Entris38

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 198

2/03/14 5:54:20 AM#498
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by nariusseldon

reposting the link from another topic:

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/

But the point is:

In the top 10 money making games (and most listed here on MMORPG.com), all but ONE is sub-only (WOW).

And wow is only #7, and making less than half compared to LoL.

This pretty much shows that to make money, F2P beats P2P, and often you don't even need a virtual world.

I suppose its save to assume that the numbers are an average per person right?

After all to support your claim all the games would need the same amount of players otherwise its just a bad joke to make a statement like yours.

But wait isnt  that a list that only shows the cashshop income and doesnt factor in the actually income of the subs?

I dont know man but if i would make a claim i at least would think for a sec about the source i use to back the claim up and a source that does not even show the sub income or takes the total playerbase into consideration is not a source i would use lol

 

Correct, this chart only shows cash shop income, not the sub part of the income. It's been rehashed a few times in this thread, but 27 pages is hard to sift through lol.

 

I only really added to this conversation because I wanted to rehash saying a simple thing.......I don't care how much money F2P has made , the fact is that it caters many times to convenience or P2W situations and it's the lazy way out for developers and easy mode gamers. This whole way of thinking isn't good for gaming or gamers at all, it the easy way out to make high end profit for essentially delivering NOTHING. Companies give you a carrot or lazy content for cash, rather than having to give you something of substance or quality to keep gamers playing. They don't care about loyalty to or from their customers at all, knowing someone else is going to walk by and go "look, it's free, why not try it?", then hope they spend a few bucks in the cash shop.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

 
OP  2/03/14 11:43:28 AM#499
Originally posted by laokoko
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
 

I suppose the F2P part are usually solo and leveling phase.  Usually when you reach end game that's where you start to play with people.  That's when the developer are trying to get you to pay.

In that sense you probably have more fun playing single player game.  Not that I endorse pirating game.  You might as well go play single player game.  In which they make a better single player game compare to mmorpg.

Yes, I play SP games. You are not under the illusion that i only play MMO, do you?

However, that is no reason not to play *some* MMOs that i like. In fact, i play them as SP games .. and don't tell me this crap about SP games are all better.

There is no better recent diablo clone in the marvel universe than Marvel Heroes .. because that is the only one (more like a marvel ultimate alliance clone).

Oh, i have no problem paying for SP games .. i just don't pay for sub-only MMOs.

 

I'm under the illusion you only care about what you want base on your post.

Most of your response is like "oh you like that, I don't.  Good thing I don't care about you.  But I still bother to respond"

In that case, you should know that i care about SP games way more than MMOs since i said many times that i play MMOs solo. That should give you a clue.

Of course i respond. Discussion here is fun. I don't have to like traditional MMOs to have fun discussing them, do i?

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/03/14 3:02:02 PM#500
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by laokoko
 

I suppose the F2P part are usually solo and leveling phase.  Usually when you reach end game that's where you start to play with people.  That's when the developer are trying to get you to pay.

In that sense you probably have more fun playing single player game.  Not that I endorse pirating game.  You might as well go play single player game.  In which they make a better single player game compare to mmorpg.

Yes, I play SP games. You are not under the illusion that i only play MMO, do you?

However, that is no reason not to play *some* MMOs that i like. In fact, i play them as SP games .. and don't tell me this crap about SP games are all better.

There is no better recent diablo clone in the marvel universe than Marvel Heroes .. because that is the only one (more like a marvel ultimate alliance clone).

Oh, i have no problem paying for SP games .. i just don't pay for sub-only MMOs.

 

I'm under the illusion you only care about what you want base on your post.

Most of your response is like "oh you like that, I don't.  Good thing I don't care about you.  But I still bother to respond"

In that case, you should know that i care about SP games way more than MMOs since i said many times that i play MMOs solo. That should give you a clue.

Of course i respond. Discussion here is fun. I don't have to like traditional MMOs to have fun discussing them, do i?

Which people would conclude is "spamming/trolling". The WoW devs would've banned you years ago over these threads! lol

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