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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What's Next, Pay Extra to Unlock Certain Classes?

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168 posts found
  LuciferIAm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/10
Posts: 98

2/02/14 5:17:37 AM#121

Nearly replied with a lengthy  rape analogy but decided not to.

People who defend consumer gouging are just the worst. They truly, truly are. "You don't like X asking you to bend over? Then don't present yourself"

Talk about how a company owns whatever and they can do what they want with it all you want but heres the thing. These companies exploit casuals en masse and/or people with simply little sense. They dangle some type of carrot in front of themm only to send them through a buttspanking machine on the way there.

Now when another company sees that delightful sadistic scene they jump at the chance to create their own carots and ass slappin machines. Why? Because as so many people like to point out, its business. Guess the big ol secret about business? Come on, you know it. You got this. They aren't your friends. Surprise!

The people dictating the gouging of the customer do it because it makes more money. This causes others to do the same because surprise they want more money. So many businesses are currently archaicly f'n the customer over on a daily basis because simply most of the sheeple don't know any better. Those that do often have to listen to sheeple defend said businesses.

I find the worst of these to be those who respond with the whole you don't like it then don't buy it schtick. Do you really not understand what you're doing? You're giving companies liscence to freely continue to release lower and lower quality products. YOU are hurting the industry by being a sheep.

Sadly these same people often spout out the if it's so bad 'it should be proven with your wallet' junk. I'll refer you to the exploitation of those who know no better.

So, I pose these questions to those who so often defend terrible consumer gouging practices. Claiming that because it is simply entertainment that somehow makes it ok.

"Why do you want future games to suck? Don't you enjoy playing games? Do you look forward to paying 5 dollars to move 5 spaces?"

Hell if you're still going to reply with the entertainment part, then think about some of the developers out there who love what they do. But their bosses ruin their passions with greed. They sadly still need their jobs to survive, it's not like they can tell their bosses to f' off. Instead it's up to their fans to show the businesses we won't take their gouging with a 'Yes, Please'.

Sure, some devs don't fit said bill. But it's clear many do when you hear them speak about their work. They pour their hearts and souls into their games. Only for their hard work to be marred by greed.

Somehow people justify their negativity towards outspoken words against companies by again making the entertainment claim. But attaching entertainment moniker to games as if thats all they are is a travesty. I'm willing to bet nearly all of us have had wonderful social interactions with fellow enthusiasts. Made long lasting friends along the way. Made memories we will never forget. Maybe even found love. So what if it's on a virtual plane, how does that make it any less significant?

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5357

2/02/14 5:44:21 AM#122
With F2P MMOs becoming casinos, it is hardly surprising that bad financial ethos like this creeps into P2P MMOs. The two financial models are not independent of one another, they are joined at the hip by the cash shop.
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3065

2/02/14 6:34:28 AM#123

The eventual verdict on the success or failure of TESO's pre-order content and pricing strategy will be delivered by the consumer. And I won't be a bit surprised if it's a huge success !

 

People generally love to buy exclusivity and advantage/privilege. That's one of the primary drivers of the success of most F2P games. In F2P games, the advantage is called "convenience" to make it more palatable to the masses. You don't "need" it, but it's "nice to have".

 

Game developers are under huge pressure from their shareholders/investors to increase profits. There was no way on earth that full-featured MMORPG's with multi-million dollar budgets were going to keep the same $15 per month flat sub fee. Unless producing these MMO's became 10% cheaper every year, that is. Unfortunately, the trend has gone in the opposite direction, as the games have become increasingly expensive to make, yet universally experienced shorter and shorter player retention.

So methods of "revenue generation" will constantly change as developers try new ways of making money. As always, the market will determine if they succeed or fail.

 

Units sold determines success, not the amount of wailing on forums.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5357

2/02/14 6:49:04 AM#124
I have no doubt ESO will big a big success at launch, that has not bearing on financial bad practice though.
  Brabbit1987

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

2/02/14 7:47:06 AM#125

*sarcasm start* One day I am going to make an MMORPG. Going to charge a box price and sub. The base game will release with 3 races and I will charge for the other optional 6 races. $5 a piece.

They where really suppose to be part of the base game ... but hahaha I decided to tell customers other wise because they foolishly buy it anyway. I learned it's so easy to trick people into thinking they are getting more. When really they are simply being scammed.

While I am at it I will take out 3 outfits from the base game and a few items as well as a mount and charge $20 extra for them as a collectors edition. Hey .. it's normal .. no one cares and they throw money at me, even though I am technically cheating them.

I will also include a cash shop, so you can get a few goodies and cosmetics because we havn't ripped you off enough yet. *sarcasm end*

It amazes me how many people feel it's ok to do this type of stuff and defend it. It really begs the question ... where is the limit for these people who think it's ok? Imperials are a base race in the elder scrolls series. You shouldn't have to pay for it. Those who defend it, I ask where is the limit then? Where do you draw the line?

  LuciferIAm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/10
Posts: 98

2/02/14 7:53:12 AM#126
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

*sarcasm start* One day I am going to make an MMORPG. Going to charge a box price and sub. The base game will release with 3 races and I will charge for the other optional 6 races. $5 a piece.

They where really suppose to be part of the base game ... but hahaha I decided to tell customers other wise because they foolishly buy it anyway. I learned it's so easy to trick people into thinking they are getting more. When really they are simply being scammed.

While I am at it I will take out 3 outfits from the base game and a few items as well as a mount and charge $20 extra for them as a collectors edition. Hey .. it's normal .. no one cares and they throw money at me, even though I am technically cheating them.

I will also include a cash shop, so you can get a few goodies and cosmetics because we havn't ripped you off enough yet. *sarcasm end*

It amazes me how many people feel it's ok to do this type of stuff and defend it. It really begs the question ... where is the limit for these people who think it's ok? Imperials are a base race in the elder scrolls series. You shouldn't have to pay for it. Those who defend it, I ask where is the limit then? Where do you draw the line?

Probably when we have to pay 1 cent everytime we walk a space.

  Zadawn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 676

2/02/14 7:54:51 AM#127
Originally posted by Gaendric
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by Ghabbo

Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:

 

1) Pay for alpha testing.

2) Pay for beta testing.

3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever).

4) Pay for DAY1 DLC.

5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max).

6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs.

7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc).

8) Pay for expansions.

 

Still, people throw money at them. The problem is not the developer/publisher, it's the people.

I agree the people are the deciding factor. But I don't see a big problem.

 

IF the majority agrees with you, there simply is no problem.

Because if the majority won't buy at that price, the devs lose a ton of revenue and learn the lesson.

 

And... if the majority doesn't agree with you and is willing to pay that price, there should also be no problem.

Because you shouldn't try to force your minority opinion onto the majority.

 

And something like "we know it better than the majority, it should be forced on them" is simply not a viable solution. That's a way way too dangerous and slippery slope and wrong in so many ways. 

 

The majority is stupid. Look around you  and tell me what's the ratio of stupid/bright people.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5435

2/02/14 8:05:43 AM#128
Originally posted by Zadawn
Originally posted by Gaendric
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by Ghabbo

Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:

 

1) Pay for alpha testing.

2) Pay for beta testing.

3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever).

4) Pay for DAY1 DLC.

5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max).

6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs.

7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc).

8) Pay for expansions.

 

Still, people throw money at them. The problem is not the developer/publisher, it's the people.

I agree the people are the deciding factor. But I don't see a big problem.

 

IF the majority agrees with you, there simply is no problem.

Because if the majority won't buy at that price, the devs lose a ton of revenue and learn the lesson.

 

And... if the majority doesn't agree with you and is willing to pay that price, there should also be no problem.

Because you shouldn't try to force your minority opinion onto the majority.

 

And something like "we know it better than the majority, it should be forced on them" is simply not a viable solution. That's a way way too dangerous and slippery slope and wrong in so many ways. 

 

The majority is stupid. Look around you  and tell me what's the ratio of stupid/bright people.

Just as common sense is really not all that common. But this whole thing is really just an example of 'whatever the market will bear' perhaps their just testing the limits of what that might be.

  Brabbit1987

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

2/02/14 8:49:42 AM#129
Originally posted by Zadawn
Originally posted by Gaendric
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by Ghabbo

Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:

 

1) Pay for alpha testing.

2) Pay for beta testing.

3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever).

4) Pay for DAY1 DLC.

5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max).

6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs.

7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc).

8) Pay for expansions.

 

Still, people throw money at them. The problem is not the developer/publisher, it's the people.

I agree the people are the deciding factor. But I don't see a big problem.

 

IF the majority agrees with you, there simply is no problem.

Because if the majority won't buy at that price, the devs lose a ton of revenue and learn the lesson.

 

And... if the majority doesn't agree with you and is willing to pay that price, there should also be no problem.

Because you shouldn't try to force your minority opinion onto the majority.

 

And something like "we know it better than the majority, it should be forced on them" is simply not a viable solution. That's a way way too dangerous and slippery slope and wrong in so many ways. 

 

The majority is stupid. Look around you  and tell me what's the ratio of stupid/bright people.

This is exactly my thoughts on the matter. The people who think it's alright to pay all this crap when in the past you never had to, in my eyes they are insane.

I also love how they try and bend facts to make it alright. Like trying to compare it to an expansion pack. Worse is when they say all games have Collectors Editions as if that is why people are arguing. Those who say that clearly have missed the point.

Point is, imperials is a base race in the elder scrolls series. Something that is part of the base game should never, ever, cost extra. I don't care if I had no plans on playing as an imperial, that still doesn't make it right.

It also doesn't matter if I don't buy the game, I can still complain, because it still isn't right. Just because I don't purchase something, doesn't mean I can't complain. After all, it's these specific reason why I am not purchasing it.

  Brabbit1987

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

2/02/14 9:00:37 AM#130
Originally posted by LuciferIAm
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

*sarcasm start* One day I am going to make an MMORPG. Going to charge a box price and sub. The base game will release with 3 races and I will charge for the other optional 6 races. $5 a piece.

They where really suppose to be part of the base game ... but hahaha I decided to tell customers other wise because they foolishly buy it anyway. I learned it's so easy to trick people into thinking they are getting more. When really they are simply being scammed.

While I am at it I will take out 3 outfits from the base game and a few items as well as a mount and charge $20 extra for them as a collectors edition. Hey .. it's normal .. no one cares and they throw money at me, even though I am technically cheating them.

I will also include a cash shop, so you can get a few goodies and cosmetics because we havn't ripped you off enough yet. *sarcasm end*

It amazes me how many people feel it's ok to do this type of stuff and defend it. It really begs the question ... where is the limit for these people who think it's ok? Imperials are a base race in the elder scrolls series. You shouldn't have to pay for it. Those who defend it, I ask where is the limit then? Where do you draw the line?

Probably when we have to pay 1 cent everytime we walk a space.

lol I don't even think that would do it. They would some how do the math to make it seem like no big deal. Then compare it to something more expensive.

Something along the lines of like ...

Per hour an average character walks 1,000 spaces. That is only $10 an hour. Going out to the theaters will cost you gas, movies tickets, and most people get popcorn. All together you are look at nearly $30 - 40+ for 1 - 2 people. For a 2 - 3 hour movie.

$10 per hour to play a good game is a bargain! 

 

Also .. no .. I am not kidding, I have seen people use this kind of argument against others to make it seem like something is cheaper.

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 568

2/02/14 9:04:12 AM#131
I may fool to ask , but can you play the game without expansion pack ?
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5357

2/02/14 9:23:01 AM#132

There are no expansion packs ESO is not out yet. Expansion packs themselves are on the way out, cash shops have beaten retail boxes and microtransactions favour small purchases not large ones.

And ESO will be play to play. So we won't have to share with the riff-raff which is a relief. ;)

  phantomghost

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/05/11
Posts: 637

"Kill me, my man kills you, that's how you lose."

2/02/14 9:31:20 AM#133
Originally posted by Xssiv

Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game.

However, when a developer chooses to charge a box price + sub, then believes it's OK to charge an additional fee to give players access to all classes, we are treading on a slippery slope that simply will not end well for most gamers.

Let's be honest, if Zenimax sells a lot of CE's because of this tactic, we all know that the next round of MMO releases will take this idea one step further.  

Will we be paying extra to unlock a certain class?  

Or only people who purchased the CE can access a certain raid?  

Want that next tier of gear to stay competitive in PvP, better cough up some cash.

 

I'm hoping that ESO CE sales aren't amazing, not because I want ESO to fail but because I don't want other developers to think this type of business practice is acceptable to MMO gamers.

 

Unfortunately, the desperation of many MMO players to get their hands on the latest game on day one, often affects their ability to look at the big picture... and the developers / publishers are very well aware of this.  

Let me guess without reading this what it is.  Another thread about TESO that needs to be locked and the user needs to be issued a warning for posting the same thread that has been posted 500x now. 

 

Don't like it don't play.  Go post about something else. 

"I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20247

2/02/14 12:13:30 PM#134
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

It amazes me how many people feel it's ok to do this type of stuff and defend it. It really begs the question ... where is the limit for these people who think it's ok? Imperials are a base race in the elder scrolls series. You shouldn't have to pay for it. Those who defend it, I ask where is the limit then? Where do you draw the line?

No limit for me. I just don't pay. I don't have to participate to support dev's right to do whatever they want with their game. Plus, it is not up to you anyway.

No matter what they put into the cash shop, i can simply ignore. If the game is free part is fun enough, i will play and there are plenty of free fun MMOs out there.

(Of course it only applies to MMO .. i gladly pay for games like Dishonored, or The ROOM, just not MMO).

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/02/14 12:19:07 PM#135
Originally posted by LuciferIAm

Nearly replied with a lengthy  rape analogy but decided not to.

People who defend consumer gouging are just the worst. They truly, truly are. "You don't like X asking you to bend over? Then don't present yourself"

Talk about how a company owns whatever and they can do what they want with it all you want but heres the thing. These companies exploit casuals en masse and/or people with simply little sense. They dangle some type of carrot in front of themm only to send them through a buttspanking machine on the way there.

Now when another company sees that delightful sadistic scene they jump at the chance to create their own carots and ass slappin machines. Why? Because as so many people like to point out, its business. Guess the big ol secret about business? Come on, you know it. You got this. They aren't your friends. Surprise!

The people dictating the gouging of the customer do it because it makes more money. This causes others to do the same because surprise they want more money. So many businesses are currently archaicly f'n the customer over on a daily basis because simply most of the sheeple don't know any better. Those that do often have to listen to sheeple defend said businesses.

I find the worst of these to be those who respond with the whole you don't like it then don't buy it schtick. Do you really not understand what you're doing? You're giving companies liscence to freely continue to release lower and lower quality products. YOU are hurting the industry by being a sheep.

Sadly these same people often spout out the if it's so bad 'it should be proven with your wallet' junk. I'll refer you to the exploitation of those who know no better.

So, I pose these questions to those who so often defend terrible consumer gouging practices. Claiming that because it is simply entertainment that somehow makes it ok.

"Why do you want future games to suck? Don't you enjoy playing games? Do you look forward to paying 5 dollars to move 5 spaces?"

Hell if you're still going to reply with the entertainment part, then think about some of the developers out there who love what they do. But their bosses ruin their passions with greed. They sadly still need their jobs to survive, it's not like they can tell their bosses to f' off. Instead it's up to their fans to show the businesses we won't take their gouging with a 'Yes, Please'.

Sure, some devs don't fit said bill. But it's clear many do when you hear them speak about their work. They pour their hearts and souls into their games. Only for their hard work to be marred by greed.

Somehow people justify their negativity towards outspoken words against companies by again making the entertainment claim. But attaching entertainment moniker to games as if thats all they are is a travesty. I'm willing to bet nearly all of us have had wonderful social interactions with fellow enthusiasts. Made long lasting friends along the way. Made memories we will never forget. Maybe even found love. So what if it's on a virtual plane, how does that make it any less significant?

In junior or senior year, you'll probably take an economy or business class of some sort. When you get there, show your teacher this post so that he knows the uphill battle he will be facing. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

2/02/14 12:21:53 PM#136
Originally posted by anemo
You already do with expansions.

 Thats just it...I dont think alot of people realize that they pay for them im p2p games also...I dont have a problem with premium classes as long as there are a few good ones for free too.....

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5562

2/02/14 12:54:49 PM#137

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20247

2/02/14 1:06:30 PM#138
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5562

2/02/14 1:13:26 PM#139
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by BeansnBread

The argument that because people have been paying for expansions they should be fine with this basically boils down to this. You pay for expansions in other sub games and so everything is ok to sell in a cash shop (along with the sub). Classes, races, textures, top tier weapons and armor, levels, zones, quests, crafting supplies, etc. After all, you already pay for expansions and expansions include all of these things.

 

In the end it's an argument that is technically valid, but is also relatively absurd to those that thought paying a sub should get you access to a full game. Obviously there are a lot of people that no longer feel this way. They would prefer to pay a sub and on top of that add in a cash shop that sells very important gameplay related items and services. I'm just not one of those people.

No the argument is that if you are not fine by it, don't play the game. Devs are under no obligation to do whatever you want. They only follow the money.

For example, I am not "fine" with FFA pvp ... so i don't play FFA pvp games .. very simple.

That is actually a completely different argument. That is your argument, not the one that I was referring to. And I agree with your argument. Don't buy the game if you are uncomfortable with their payment model.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  funyahns

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 316

2/02/14 1:17:30 PM#140
 I have no problem with F2P games doing it. I have a problem with P2P games doing it though. So I am going to not buy it, and make sure other people know about it too. If you can get enough people on your side and they suffer through bad sales or bad publicity then maybe they will change their minds. Pretty much with what happened to Xbox last year when all that negative feedback hit them.  The biggest problem I had with the ordeal was acting like Pay gates are to good for them and subs should handle the entire thing.  Dishonesty is something I do not like in any company that wants me to spend money there.
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