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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » New Q&A at their site touches on some CE topics

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78 posts found
  9Prejudice

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 32

2/01/14 7:20:30 AM#41
Originally posted by Uhwop

I don't think people have a problem with the Imperial race, they have a problem having to PAY for the Imperial. 

I don't think people thought the horse was "better" they had a problem with people who pay for it having a gold advantage since they won't have to earn the money in game to get a horse. 

 

The issues the QA cover don't actual cover the things people are being vocal about. 

 

Having to pay for a race that is a central part of the ES world.

Being required to be an early adopter in order to play in any faction with any race. 

if they removed the exclusive Imperial race, nobody will buy the digital CE.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/01/14 7:39:39 AM#42
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

  cura

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 869

2/01/14 8:17:16 AM#43
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

Preorder should be about playing the game as soon as possible not about in-game bonuses. 

  squalleonaha

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 213

2/01/14 8:44:01 AM#44
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/01/14 9:47:35 AM#45
Originally posted by squalleonaha
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

The more reason I never pre-ordered.

But still feel that now pre-order players finaly get something more unique then what "most" games offer with a pre-order. Perhaps it's just me that I never understood why someone would pay for a CE edition when most of it is only cosmetic and pretty much meaningless thru the course of the game.

And still not going to pre-order TESO but will buy the game at release or slightly after for sure.

I've seen people speak out against these pre-orders yet those same people are looking forward to Everquest Landmark/Next, yet those games are labelded Free To Play but have founderpacks for early acces and will be included into it's new Station all Acces pass.

I have nothing against either but wonder how people justified complaining about one game while another game seems to be doing equally the same just in another form. And even has done so before gamers where able to play.

 

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 9:49:45 AM#46

Their answer was very weak.

 

Not many if any of the critics thought the horse was faster, or the race would be more powerful. They are speaking out because you have to PAY for them.

 

Also the BIGGEST issues really isnt the Imperial race at all it the unlocking of factions/alliance for any race. Thats looks like (at least for now) a pre order exclusive. SO you HAVE to pre order a game ...under NDA, still in closed beta, which you may or may noy have played first hand, and even if you have played first hand it has been in an extremely limited scope,  to get something pretty significant, that truthfully WHEN it is IN the game in the first place, EVERYONE should get for free.

 

Not sure why people find this such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

Seriously the last comment on it was priceless. Basically they said they HAD to give the Imperials or NOTHING at all. Seriously? That is the official response to this shit storm?

 

How about a title, how about a 24,30,or 36 slot bag(not 3 one with those number of slots), how about some store credits (since there is definitely a store), how about some jewelry that you can upgrade as you level(so it doesnt start off too powerful but stays in line with existing jewelry). Or maybe 60 or 90 days free instead of the generic 30? Since when do pre orders for a game that FANS are pre ordering in the first place need selling points? Especially one priced as cheaply (relatively speaking) as this one?

 

This is a SUBSCRIPTION based game. That trumps EVERYTHING. ANYTHING that can be misconstrued by most people cannot be offered EXCLUSIVELY. I think a whole race (not just a skin change of a race) but a complete race they DEVELOPED (key here) that they had to give racials to and passives to does not and never will in any realm qualify as non content. 

 

The people defending this would be up in arms (well maybe) if without pre ordering you got a SINGLE race from each Alliance. Or at least I hope they would. So if you dont pre order you can only make ONE race per Alliance. They might even give you a choice. But if you create a Breton that means unless you pre order you cannot play a redguard or an orc on that Alliance. Races arent content right? So they (Zenimax) has every right to lock them up behind some wall, right? They have never said explicitly that you could play ALL races that I know of,  they said you had a choice of this that OR the other. Crazy right? But i is the same exact thing as this. I imagine if they did do that (and I dont want to give the cash grabbers any new ideas) but if they did would people still defend it? Using the same "races arent content" argument? I suspect a few would. Even if through game play you were eventually able to unlock every race would THAT matter? Or if for the pre order or a small 'convenience fee' in the store you can do it instantly.

 

Its the principle and the precedent more than anything. Especially after they went through such a rhetoric and talking point way of defending their subscription based model in the first place. Thats another irony, the guys who defended them then are the guys who are critical or at least leery now. They finally see what we (the initial critics) said all along. Theyre going ot have everything, a big box price, a sub fee AND a store. That despite what people think isnt  going to sell JUST  'fun stuff' and name changes. Because there is no way no how a game that offers a subscription can hold something like the ability to play any race in any alliance as an exclusive feature for people who just happened to order the game before it was released. Now they do have an "out' because technically they never charged for it, so they could make it universal without a pay wall (I doubt that) but they could. It might receive some backlash from guys who pre ordered BECAUSE of the explorers pack. Bt I would hope most people with common sense would see that if it were exclusive it would be a major problem.

 

Either way theyre going to make a lot of money and after this game completely falls flat in a few months after people realize what it is and what these guys are about they had better not be shocked when the 'next big thing' comes out with the same exact business model i.e. box price, sub AND cash shop, and probably slip in micro transactions and for pay DLCS as well. If Bethesda makes 500 million bucks and the game fails do you thin they care? It surely didnt fail for them they tripled their money. (unless you think they really did spend 200 mil, but that is still more than doubling it). Developers MIGHT care about the product, but the marketing departments and bean counters CONTROL them. So until marketing people start giving interviews and talking about what the games are going to have or not have I wont pay too much attention. But BECAUSE so many people will buy this game is the very reason why it will continue and get worse going forward.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1460

2/01/14 10:05:21 AM#47
Originally posted by squalleonaha
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

Wait WOW was on pre-order a long time ago and didn't have the competition of all the games that exist now.

You even said that yourself here from another post I found just reading the topics in this sub-forum in the last 15 minutes.

'we are no longer in a time that only WOW, EQ2, FF11 are the only mmo'

If a company is aware of the climate change and that there is more competition out there than there was in WOW times (and so are you) to sell a game so they tried to give more, why would you hold them to WOWs history? That's a little too convenient to be on both sides of the fence in comments back to back.

----------------

Does anyone think about price when they look at this subject?

I remember someone posting that a F2P game was charging hundreds of dollars for beta and we were laughing at it. Then the other day I saw them selling mech warriors skins for 500 bucks a set.

Now, this pre-order could have used prices like that and didn't. It stayed in a general range like WOW, heck it's not much different than the WOW pre-order price was and it's about 9 years later. Why didn't they charge what free games charge for beta if they wanted to really milk you and why haven't they charged for beta at all? There's plenty of demand, they said once about 4mil. signed up for that.

Here's a link about pre-order WOW in 2004 and it wasn't bereft of people complaining then either.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/395740/

Is it change that bothers people?

You expected a pre-order box to have nothing in it worthwhile so you wouldn't lose anything by not purchasing it but now you have to make a decision? Now, you have to decide if you actually want the race or want to wait for it to come to you later? Are we just being penny pinchers about it or fearing that it might turn into a free game. The indicators aren't there though. They've made a huge public statement that they want to be a sub game. You think people wouldn't walk out on them if they did a 180 turn and they aren't aware of that, that they have pitted themselves against free game price gouging and that everything they sell will be compared to that. They didn't have any foresight to know that people would want to know if they get the pre-order things later or will be accessible for people who are late comers to the game to get. You honestly think they have not planned for that? 

I'm thinking of this from a standpoint of - they didn't have plans to code in the Imperials to the game. They had a work schedule pre-planned like any project does. People said they wanted them. They spent extra money creating them then decided to recoup the money selling the price it cost them in man hours with a pre-order version including them because it wasn't scheduled so someone may have worked overtime to squeeze it in. If it wasn't part of the planned core game, what's illogical about plunking it into the pre-order for only those who wanted it. If they thought it was so meaningful, it would have been in the core of the game at the start. It means something to some fans - that's why they said the set was for the fans.

To everyone else, they won't care if 6 mos. down the road they opened the race up to them too because they wanted the game with or without Imperials for other reasons. It only meant something to a select group and now people are taking on meaning to it when they really have no interest in it. If you think you had interest - where were all your posts before this saying - What aren't there Imperials in the game? I want to play an Imperial! I didn't see one post like that around here and I've only heard that people wanted Imperials as hearsay so it wasn't in strength, it was a small group.

 

 

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 10:07:44 AM#48
Originally posted by Reklaw

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

The more reason I never pre-ordered.

But still feel that now pre-order players finaly get something more unique then what "most" games offer with a pre-order. Perhaps it's just me that I never understood why someone would pay for a CE edition when most of it is only cosmetic and pretty much meaningless thru the course of the game.

And still not going to pre-order TESO but will buy the game at release or slightly after for sure.

I've seen people speak out against these pre-orders yet those same people are looking forward to Everquest Landmark/Next, yet those games are labelded Free To Play but have founderpacks for early acces and will be included into it's new Station all Acces pass.

I have nothing against either but wonder how people justified complaining about one game while another game seems to be doing equally the same just in another form. And even has done so before gamers where able to play.

 

 

Lets break down this comment....

 

The reason why "most game" never did it because it is taboo. Especially if youre paying a subscription.

 

They pay for a CE because they love the IP andwant to have something from it. Digital CEs are money grabs in the first place. They are a bastardization of a TRUE CE, where you generally get an art book or lore book, a sound track CD. a map generally, some token either a statue or a coin or a medallion, and generally a specially decorated box it comes in. THAT Is a COLLECTORS EDITION, you actually 'collect' them. Offering more in game stuff in some digital collectors edition has always been borderline especially in games starting out with a sub. But because theyre accepted now (the outrage at common stuff is the same as what we are seeing with what ESO is offering back when this first started, so food for thought) everyone gives it a pass.

 

The third part is the biggest factor, theyre FREE to PLAY. So giving stuff to people who PAY for it is perfectly fine. In a sub based game EVERYONE pays with their subscription. Therefore they should all get the same things. Paying more and getting more isnt a subscription based game mindset, it is a buy to play or a free to play mindset. Had ESo gone buy to play like most peopel thought they would this wouldnt even be a discussion.

 

Also in regards to EQ Landmark and certainly EQ next will also offer it, theyre paying to get into the game first. So basically theyre paying to beta it, or thyre paying into a 'kickstarter" that has sort of started but their money and efforts help do stretch goals (in a round about way). I think one Sony is doing and people who go that route have a lot more brains than sending money to people who dont have anything and have never done anything in the past to warrant giving them money for a promise of something that doesnt even exist. But dont get me wrong Sony s as big a cash grab company as has ever existed, thats why I didnt do (buy my way in) the Alpha even though I was intrigued.

 

Your final statement, its two completely different circumstances as I said one is free to play and one is pay to play the differences are astounding thats why the initial announcement of a sub was pretty hot. But by doing what theyre doing now and will more than likely do in the future based off these examples flies right in theface of the subscription model, and why the defenders of that model are now the ones critical of what theyre doing now. Theyre double and almost triple dipping here.

 

People can do what they want, its a free country but all these these lead to more things down the road. Until gamers unite (which will never ever happen) it will  continue and it will get worse. I guarantee if the nae of this game was sshgfggggxgxdotijf and NOT ESO and it was produced and developed and had the exact same everything except name, people would be laughing at these guys for trying to do what theye doing. People are buying into the NAME of this  game, and for that theyre truly going to be sorry.

  squalleonaha

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 213

2/01/14 10:32:29 AM#49
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by squalleonaha
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha

This is what game director Matt Firor said at gamecon 2013 when he dfending sub fee:

" When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not anElder Scrolls experience."

"Firor believes charging a monthly subscription ensures players have "100% of the game" and never run into payment walls"

 

and what happen? if you dont PAY for CE or PREORDER, you wont get to play imperial. and this is a RACE , not a cash shop COSMETIC.

 

source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-the-elder-scrolls-online-subscription-ensures-pla/

So you rather have something meaningless with a pre-order?

 

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

Wait WOW was on pre-order a long time ago and didn't have the competition of all the games that exist now.

You even said that yourself here from another post I found just reading the topics in this sub-forum in the last 15 minutes.

'we are no longer in a time that only WOW, EQ2, FF11 are the only mmo'

If a company is aware of the climate change and that there is more competition out there than there was in WOW times (and so are you) to sell a game so they tried to give more, why would you hold them to WOWs history? That's a little too convenient to be on both sides of the fence in comments back to back.

----------------

Does anyone think about price when they look at this subject?

I remember someone posting that a F2P game was charging hundreds of dollars for beta and we were laughing at it. Then the other day I saw them selling mech warriors skins for 500 bucks a set.

Now, this pre-order could have used prices like that and didn't. It stayed in a general range like WOW, heck it's not much different than the WOW pre-order price was and it's about 9 years later. Why didn't they charge what free games charge for beta if they wanted to really milk you and why haven't they charged for beta at all? There's plenty of demand, they said once about 4mil. signed up for that.

Here's a link about pre-order WOW in 2004 and it wasn't bereft of people complaining then either.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/395740/

Is it change that bothers people?

You expected a pre-order box to have nothing in it worthwhile so you wouldn't lose anything by not purchasing it but now you have to make a decision? Now, you have to decide if you actually want the race or want to wait for it to come to you later? Are we just being penny pinchers about it or fearing that it might turn into a free game. The indicators aren't there though. They've made a huge public statement that they want to be a sub game. You think people wouldn't walk out on them if they did a 180 turn and they aren't aware of that, that they have pitted themselves against free game price gouging and that everything they sell will be compared to that. They didn't have any foresight to know that people would want to know if they get the pre-order things later or will be accessible for people who are late comers to the game to get. You honestly think they have not planned for that? 

 

 

 

 

what you point of bringing my comment from other forum post?

yes, i did say "we are no longer in a time that only WOW, EQ2, FF11 are the only mmo" in other game. 

you are trying to use my words to say that : using WOW pre-order as an example is outdated. however, just look back in the history of all pre order game untill the present FF14, SWTRP,RIFT. has any of them sell exclusive RACE? when a thing go too far it become ABNORMAL.

  User Deleted
2/01/14 11:02:33 AM#50
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by inemosz
Imperial is not cosmetic, it's vanity. The difference with other races won't be noticeable though, so it's pretty much useless.

Unless you are just attached to the idea of the Imperial, which some people are given how many years they have been able to play them in the rest of the Elder Scrolls games.

Yes, I was about to add that to my post. Yes, it's cash grab for the most popular race.

Most popular race..... really? No seriously, REALLY?  I am fine with Imperials but they are never even in the top 3 races.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1460

2/01/14 11:06:53 AM#51
Originally posted by squalleonaha
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by squalleonaha
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by squalleonaha..snip

 

what you point of bringing my comment from other forum post?

yes, i did say "we are no longer in a time that only WOW, EQ2, FF11 are the only mmo" in other game. 

you are trying to use my words to say that : using WOW pre-order as an example is outdated. however, just look back in the history of all pre order game untill the present FF14, SWTRP,RIFT. has any of them sell exclusive RACE? when a thing go too far it become ABNORMAL.

Look, I came to forum and read two topics. You were the last poster in both of them and said two opposing things. I didn't single you out, it wasn't personal or meant to be an offensive thing. Just showing you what I was thinking when I read the WOW pre-order comparison with your own words. You made the comments, I only used them together because they supported what I was thinking, WOW wasn't a fair comparison to a game releasing now.

As for the other games. Well, now you have a precedent for future. This game didn't plan on having Imperials in the game on launch. People asked for them, they were added as part of the pre-order and time moves on. Now you have a litmus of seeing it done once. If no one can have the Imperial race but the people who bought the pre-order in 6 mos. or so down the line. Get back to me about it and I'll eat crow but I don't see any reason they won't introduce them in some way later. Maybe through a storyline where you talk to them and learn of their plans to be in all alliances and why you have seen them around but only in small numbers. If I can think up that scenario now, in 15 seconds, how long do you think they've had to mull about it since they first got word some people wanted to have the race.

Here's my imaginary meeting inside their heads.

Another thing too was they had an equal set of 3 races in each alliance. So where oh where do you put the 10th because now you don't have a division of 3? That could have been why they were left out to start with. Maybe they queried Skyrim/any of their games metrics/records and found them to be the least appealing/played race - we just don't know because we weren't there. So, they let them go into any alliance. Ok, that then brings a backstory and flavor to the races, now all of them technically have 4 races possible.

So, hey guys, if we can send people to other alliances, let's add in that our pre-order people can choose an alliance and be in an alternate alliance in a sort of treacherous way. Now that we've seen that races can be important to some of the players we can let them wiggle into non-home-based alliances so that they can get the game and play with a friend though their preferred races aren't in the same alliance by default. Then we potentially have all races in all alliances but not in a way that's equal or common. Someone has to come from pre-order to choose that route for now, then all alliances aren't exactly the same.

Right, right, we don't want all alliances to be exactly the same right now. We want those stragglers to be fewer than those core racial groupings. Over time we could open it up and let all races be in all alliances but let's make them do a quest or something and change their minds or be bothered by a leadership structure then seeking a change of fellowship. Exactly because some people are born rebellious and some need to get fed up to act upon it. That will help with the racial balancing too. Once all races are available in all alliances, no one can claim that one alliance has a severe advantage because only they can have access to those racials. This will leave us open to produce more content instead of being stuck at balance issues spinning wheels.

 

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/01/14 11:12:16 AM#52
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Reklaw

look at other game like WOW pre order. it doesnt include a WHOLE RACE and still sold out.

you made it sound like they cant sell any CE if they dont sell imperial, there many cosmetic things like cool mini pet  that many other game did.

be more specific.

The more reason I never pre-ordered.

But still feel that now pre-order players finaly get something more unique then what "most" games offer with a pre-order. Perhaps it's just me that I never understood why someone would pay for a CE edition when most of it is only cosmetic and pretty much meaningless thru the course of the game.

And still not going to pre-order TESO but will buy the game at release or slightly after for sure.

I've seen people speak out against these pre-orders yet those same people are looking forward to Everquest Landmark/Next, yet those games are labelded Free To Play but have founderpacks for early acces and will be included into it's new Station all Acces pass.

I have nothing against either but wonder how people justified complaining about one game while another game seems to be doing equally the same just in another form. And even has done so before gamers where able to play.

 

 

Lets break down this comment....

 

The reason why "most game" never did it because it is taboo. Especially if youre paying a subscription.

Perhaps it's taboo to you and/or other people I just don't see a reason why it should be taboo

They pay for a CE because they love the IP andwant to have something from it. Digital CEs are money grabs in the first place. They are a bastardization of a TRUE CE, where you generally get an art book or lore book, a sound track CD. a map generally, some token either a statue or a coin or a medallion, and generally a specially decorated box it comes in. THAT Is a COLLECTORS EDITION, you actually 'collect' them. Offering more in game stuff in some digital collectors edition has always been borderline especially in games starting out with a sub. But because theyre accepted now (the outrage at common stuff is the same as what we are seeing with what ESO is offering back when this first started, so food for thought) everyone gives it a pass.

I love the IP  but you are quite mistaken with using the word CE because there is no CE with TESO. It's a DE/DIE(Digital Edition and Digital Imperial Edition). You might have had a point if these where Collector Editions.

The third part is the biggest factor, theyre FREE to PLAY. So giving stuff to people who PAY for it is perfectly fine. In a sub based game EVERYONE pays with their subscription. Therefore they should all get the same things. Paying more and getting more isnt a subscription based game mindset, it is a buy to play or a free to play mindset. Had ESo gone buy to play like most peopel thought they would this wouldnt even be a discussion.

Still not sure why you persieve it that way. As said I rather see people using a pre-order to gain something unique and their money is actually spend for things ingame. I am more of a sub-fee minded player then a F2P player nd still see nothing wrong but actually a good thing Zenimax did.

Also in regards to EQ Landmark and certainly EQ next will also offer it, theyre paying to get into the game first. So basically theyre paying to beta it, or thyre paying into a 'kickstarter" that has sort of started but their money and efforts help do stretch goals (in a round about way). I think one Sony is doing and people who go that route have a lot more brains than sending money to people who dont have anything and have never done anything in the past to warrant giving them money for a promise of something that doesnt even exist. But dont get me wrong Sony s as big a cash grab company as has ever existed, thats why I didnt do (buy my way in) the Alpha even though I was intrigued.

I don't understand people who do buy into pre-order if never had a chance to actually try/play the game. So to me it would be logical those people wouldn't pre-order.  In that order do you understand why I do not understand why people are okay with paying for some founder pack well before (months) there is even a playable state of that game.

Your final statement, its two completely different circumstances as I said one is free to play and one is pay to play the differences are astounding thats why the initial announcement of a sub was pretty hot. But by doing what theyre doing now and will more than likely do in the future based off these examples flies right in theface of the subscription model, and why the defenders of that model are now the ones critical of what theyre doing now. Theyre double and almost triple dipping here.

I still stand with having more faith in their decision of TESO being a sub based game then I have in upcoming "sandbox" games being F2P. 

People can do what they want, its a free country but all these these lead to more things down the road. Until gamers unite (which will never ever happen) it will  continue and it will get worse. I guarantee if the nae of this game was sshgfggggxgxdotijf and NOT ESO and it was produced and developed and had the exact same everything except name, people would be laughing at these guys for trying to do what theye doing. People are buying into the NAME of this  game, and for that theyre truly going to be sorry.

From my point of view, people who are into ES and dismiss this game might miss out on a good ES experiance.

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 11:22:52 AM#53
Originally posted by greenreen
 

. This game didn't plan on having Imperials in the game on launch. People asked for them, they were added as part of the pre-order and time moves on. Now you have a litmus of seeing it done once. 

 

I think they always had them, just like they always had the ability to do first person, just like they always had the intention of unlocking races, just like they had a lot of things that they said they didnt have or were 'impossible' to do but miraculously figured a way into the game.

 

if you listen to all the interviews and how the voices are when they answered question about some of this stuff it is interesting. Then these latest Q&A sessions where they come right out and say 'I could answer that but marketing might be upset' THAT right there tells you what is going on here.

 

But they do these things and like you people think they did it because players asked for it. When they just created the controversy to come in like a knight and save the day by giving people what they wanted.

 

I have no proof of this obviously just speculation based on listening to hours of videos and decisions that have been made that contradict things they say, and not just once but over and over again. Its a pattern now. One that is easy to see.

 

Once the game is actually released even the people with blinders on will see it. Whether it makes a difference or not is anyones guess. I have seen gamers take a lot of abuse from companies to play and even pay for games they love or feel some sort of attachment to.

 

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 11:26:47 AM#54
Originally posted by Reklaw

 

 

I love the IP  but you are quite mistaken with using the word CE because there is no CE with TESO. It's a DE/DIE(Digital Edition and Digital Imperial Edition). You might have had a point if these where Collector Editions.

 

 

 

 

There is a physical CE. its 99 bux. most places have sold out of that version already.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

2/01/14 11:29:03 AM#55
Originally posted by Skymourne

Because people like you and those defending this garbage have allowed it to happen.  You said similar things in a previous thread.  It doesn't make it less of an abomination if you tell yourself that this is acceptable behavior.  This should have never happened and now everyone has to pay for it.  Unbelievable.

Disliking reality doesn't change reality.  Even if every single person who reads these threads were to refuse to buy the game, it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket of their sales.  The audience as a whole just doesn't share your outrage, not enough of it to ever make an impact.  Change has come, your only choices are to accept it or opt out of MMOs.

Originally posted by rodarin

There is a physical CE. its 99 bux. most places have sold out of that version already.

Seriously?  It's not like the TOR CE or the Mists of Pandaria CE, where I could probably go out and find ten copies of each before the end of the day if I felt like it, it's actually limited?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3908

 
OP  2/01/14 11:34:32 AM#56
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by greenreen
 

. This game didn't plan on having Imperials in the game on launch. People asked for them, they were added as part of the pre-order and time moves on. Now you have a litmus of seeing it done once. 

 

I think they always had them, just like they always had the ability to do first person, just like they always had the intention of unlocking races, just like they had a lot of things that they said they didnt have or were 'impossible' to do but miraculously figured a way into the game.

 

if you listen to all the interviews and how the voices are when they answered question about some of this stuff it is interesting. Then these latest Q&A sessions where they come right out and say 'I could answer that but marketing might be upset' THAT right there tells you what is going on here.

 

But they do these things and like you people think they did it because players asked for it. When they just created the controversy to come in like a knight and save the day by giving people what they wanted.

 

I have no proof of this obviously just speculation based on listening to hours of videos and decisions that have been made that contradict things they say, and not just once but over and over again. Its a pattern now. One that is easy to see.

 

Once the game is actually released even the people with blinders on will see it. Whether it makes a difference or not is anyones guess. I have seen gamers take a lot of abuse from companies to play and even pay for games they love or feel some sort of attachment to.

 

 

No, I don't think they did. You can speculate that this is part of their grand design just like I speculated in my other thread about an internal power struggle between Firor and Sage about sticking to the original concept (no Imperials, races locked to factions) or listening to the fans complaints and allowing off-faction choice. We're both just guessing.

 

This decision to me smacks of compromise not any devious plan - you're giving them way too much credit for marketing savvy when you assume that this was their plan all along. If one side had fully gotten its way you would see no off-alliance choice or Imperials. If the other side had, you'd see no alliance lock at all... what they're doing is something in between... that's how the double-hump horses get designed.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/01/14 11:39:56 AM#57
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Reklaw

 

 

I love the IP  but you are quite mistaken with using the word CE because there is no CE with TESO. It's a DE/DIE(Digital Edition and Digital Imperial Edition). You might have had a point if these where Collector Editions.

 

 

 

 

There is a physical CE. its 99 bux. most places have sold out of that version already.

Aha thanks wasn't aware.

So Zenimax thought of both collectors and gamers who actually want to show something unique ingame.

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 11:47:50 AM#58
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by greenreen
 

. This game didn't plan on having Imperials in the game on launch. People asked for them, they were added as part of the pre-order and time moves on. Now you have a litmus of seeing it done once. 

 

I think they always had them, just like they always had the ability to do first person, just like they always had the intention of unlocking races, just like they had a lot of things that they said they didnt have or were 'impossible' to do but miraculously figured a way into the game.

 

if you listen to all the interviews and how the voices are when they answered question about some of this stuff it is interesting. Then these latest Q&A sessions where they come right out and say 'I could answer that but marketing might be upset' THAT right there tells you what is going on here.

 

But they do these things and like you people think they did it because players asked for it. When they just created the controversy to come in like a knight and save the day by giving people what they wanted.

 

I have no proof of this obviously just speculation based on listening to hours of videos and decisions that have been made that contradict things they say, and not just once but over and over again. Its a pattern now. One that is easy to see.

 

Once the game is actually released even the people with blinders on will see it. Whether it makes a difference or not is anyones guess. I have seen gamers take a lot of abuse from companies to play and even pay for games they love or feel some sort of attachment to.

 

 

No, I don't think they did. You can speculate that this is part of their grand design just like I speculated in my other thread about an internal power struggle between Firor and Sage about sticking to the original concept (no Imperials, races locked to factions) or listening to the fans complaints and allowing off-faction choice. We're both just guessing.

 

This decision to me smacks of compromise not any devious plan - you're giving them way too much credit for marketing savvy when you assume that this was their plan all along. If one side had fully gotten its way you would see no off-alliance choice or Imperials. If the other side had, you'd see no alliance lock at all... what they're doing is something in between... that's how the double-hump horses get designed.

Neither Sage nor Firor are even in the equation beyond someone asking them "Is it Possible?". Then the next question is "whats the best way to make money off it?".

 

Now sage might be closer to the market side of things than firor or willing to break lore (but NOT having Imperials is lore breaking if you ask me, as a playable race you can argue that point, but whatever) But ot think they were not going to have them in the game as a playable race is naive. if you really thought theyre were nt going to have first person (when it is an absolute staple of the ES franchise) and believed it when they said first person was 'Impossible' Then throw your computer away now. Especially when in less than 3 months it was released in a video (in a time the game was in a lull hypewise as negative leaks came out) So they released that info when they needed to, and since they obviously couldnt find a way to charge for it or use it as an enticement they did it when it did some good at least.

 

Developers can make and do just about anything, but its the market side of games now that decide what gets put in and when. There are more than enough examples to give a proof by inspection validation. This game isnt even out yet so of course its a lot of speculation and conjecture but there is also enough empirical stuff to make those conclusions. It really isnt some wild conspiracy theory.

 

We predicted a lot of this stuff already so when it actually comes to fruition that pretty much verifies some of that speculation and conjecture because it isnt anymore its proven.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 449

2/01/14 11:53:36 AM#59
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Reklaw

 

 

I love the IP  but you are quite mistaken with using the word CE because there is no CE with TESO. It's a DE/DIE(Digital Edition and Digital Imperial Edition). You might have had a point if these where Collector Editions.

 

 

 

 

There is a physical CE. its 99 bux. most places have sold out of that version already.

Aha thanks wasn't aware.

So Zenimax thought of both collectors and gamers who actually want to show something unique ingame.

 

As a critic of them I think they added the digital CE to make more money. It was focused at the first group of critics the game had, the 'we want free to play or buy to play" crowd. Because it used their mentality of spend a little more you get a little more. REAL fans are going to but the physical box. Fake fans are going to buy the cheaper version but the one that still gives them the Imperial race, and de facto Alliance unlock.

 

Problem is by setting that precedent they also alienated their first defenders the subscription minded players who think (and rightly so) if a game in this day and age especially is going to go sub fee right off the bat then sub payers should get everything.

 

What amounts as content and what is fluff has been debated to death. Point is it doesnt matter, they used those things alot of people wanted as bait for them to pre order. Pre ordering a game that is still under a VERY strict NDA policy and one that is still in closed beta. Sure they can cancel a pre order because no money has changed hands yet, but they (Zenimax knows) that once people are in the likelihood of them opting out is slim, especially when they pre ordered after the schenanigans they already pulled.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2889

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

2/01/14 11:55:39 AM#60

"...get a unique racial skill line of equal gameplay impact to other races’ unique racial skill lines."

 

You know what else this stands true for? Classes, and you know what games balanced classes? None. Yeah, I'm sorry but you can't claim its equal for one. Look at world of warcraft, for the longest time the races were considered to be a bit imbalanced (and still can be) with having just 1 or 2 of the abilities that are suppose to be small providing advantages that any min-maxer would take over other races. So trying to go "nah its fine" and brush it off at least for balance sake is just BS.

Guys, please stop defending them. You know holding a special race back in a sub based game isn't right. Don't support such practices of allowing a game to charge box price and sub, while also holding back something large like a race to be specific to only people who pay more money. Your giving them an okay to charge for big things like that on their game on top of the sub fee. Your opening the same can of worms that has allow the mobile ftp games into a plague of greed. 

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