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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How do you feel about mmorpg databases?

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45 posts found
  Sawlstone

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/09
Posts: 308

 
OP  1/31/14 7:16:16 AM#1

I was thinking yesterday as I logged in to wow yet again after a long break. If there was never a www.thottbot.com or www.allakhazam.com that eventually led to the amazing www.wowhead.com would my feelings regarding World of Warcraft be the same. My feeling is simple. I want to discover, explore and learn in an mmorpg.

I'm sure there must have been websites like these for other earlier games but for me these are the ones l discovered for myself and they changed my experience drastically. Starting out in a new game and discovering things yourself is how it was meant to be. Asking a traveller who you meant in game for directions or a tip on where to find a quest is how it was meant to be. Somedays in wow, all you get is L2google....

Now I absolutely salute the people behind such amazing websites that are invaluable for some players. I just wonder if players today placing too much blame on a developer saying a game is completely on rails, whien in fact the shear infromation surrounding a game is jsut saturating their perspective.

One statement that is without a doubt true. Mmorpgs would not seem as on 'rails' if databases didn't exsist. How do you feel? 

 

I just realised I posted this in the wrong spot :( Now I know why I don't start threads lol.

  Sawlstone

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/09
Posts: 308

 
OP  1/31/14 10:23:41 AM#2
Please move to wow general/ general or delete.
  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2653

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/31/14 10:27:14 AM#3
Originally posted by Sawlstone

I was thinking yesterday as I logged in to wow yet again after a long break. If there was never a www.thottbot.com or www.allakhazam.com that eventually led to the amazing www.wowhead.com would my feelings regarding World of Warcraft be the same. My feeling is simple. I want to discover, explore and learn in an mmorpg.

I'm sure there must have been websites like these for other earlier games but for me these are the ones l discovered for myself and they changed my experience drastically. Starting out in a new game and discovering things yourself is how it was meant to be. Asking a traveller who you meant in game for directions or a tip on where to find a quest is how it was meant to be. Somedays in wow, all you get is L2google....

Now I absolutely salute the people behind such amazing websites that are invaluable for some players. I just wonder if players today placing too much blame on a developer saying a game is completely on rails, whien in fact the shear infromation surrounding a game is jsut saturating their perspective.

One statement that is without a doubt true. Mmorpgs would not seem as on 'rails' if databases didn't exsist. How do you feel? 

 

I just realised I posted this in the wrong spot :( Now I know why I don't start threads lol.

 I don't use them for the very reason you explained, exploration of the unkown. I don't like or use any kind of walkthroughs for any game on any platform.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/01/14 3:18:02 AM#4
Originally posted by Sawlstone

Now I absolutely salute the people behind such amazing websites that are invaluable for some players. I just wonder if players today placing too much blame on a developer saying a game is completely on rails, whien in fact the shear infromation surrounding a game is jsut saturating their perspective.

One statement that is without a doubt true. Mmorpgs would not seem as on 'rails' if databases didn't exsist. How do you feel?

Those websites help in many ways beyond quest advice. I like reading the comments on Wowhead on the quests (if it's not the usual driveby stuff), as it offers more info and sometimes more history.

 

Perfect example is like fighting the pet battle trainers in WoW. Now you can spend an hour trying to figure the right pet classes to use (and lose your win ratio in the process), or you can goto places like Wowhead and study the advice players offered. I was remembering how folks were saying one trainer was brutal to get through (a gate?). But I went in and within 3 tries completed it. Then came back and added my 2 cents so the next Joe won't feel like it'll take rocket science to win. I do it also for those Holy paladins wanting a challenge to down content as a healer (it's actually fun thinking out of the box to do it).

 

BTW, WoW got the "questing on rails" term because how the quests were laid out into hubs in Cata. No longer could you just pick up a quest while traveling, you have to first complete a whole series of quests to start another in a different zone. THAT got old quick, as you had to even track down the breadcrumb quests to even get a chance to talk with another zone quest giver. It's a lot of wasted back-to-back traveling that mimics Archaeology (ugh!).

 

But over all those sites add more to questing than just a paper in your journal. If you're a avid quester they'll be your trusted friend as it'll take a year to get the Loremaster achieve, and to complete all the quests...years.

 

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1491

2/01/14 3:21:41 AM#5
I wish there was a way to delete all gameplay  information about every videogame from the internet except perhaps tough puzzles. It would make them a lot more fun to play to be forced to figure things out yourself or with friends like the old days. Unfortunately that will obvious  never happen
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

2/01/14 3:22:51 AM#6

Those sites are very useful. They save time for chores like looking for NPC and stuff.

Running around a city to look for a NPC is easy-mode (no challenge, just tedium .. for me of course), and database sites help.

Also, more convenient to min-max gear.

 

  IGaveUp

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 272

I can't pull it off. I gave up.

2/01/14 3:31:22 AM#7

When I first started WoW, also my first MMORPG, and I learned of the "look up your quest" web sites...

 

I considered it cheating.

 

I also was never a fan of "hint books" for RPGs, and felt the same way about them.

 

I use them when I have to because of poorly written quests, or when I have zero immersion in the game and just want to plow through game mechanics to level my character.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/01/14 5:07:01 PM#8
Originally posted by RealmLordsKen

When I first started WoW, also my first MMORPG, and I learned of the "look up your quest" web sites...

 

I considered it cheating.

 

I also was never a fan of "hint books" for RPGs, and felt the same way about them.

 

I use them when I have to because of poorly written quests, or when I have zero immersion in the game and just want to plow through game mechanics to level my character.

You can't even do group quests anymore without looking up how to do them -- the group will kick you.

 

Same applies to dungeons/raids/RBGs.

 

Because all the information available you're expected to know. Arrive too lazy to read the write up, you'll leave for being too "clever" to not to read.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

2/02/14 4:13:51 AM#9
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by RealmLordsKen

When I first started WoW, also my first MMORPG, and I learned of the "look up your quest" web sites...

 

I considered it cheating.

 

I also was never a fan of "hint books" for RPGs, and felt the same way about them.

 

I use them when I have to because of poorly written quests, or when I have zero immersion in the game and just want to plow through game mechanics to level my character.

You can't even do group quests anymore without looking up how to do them -- the group will kick you.

 

Same applies to dungeons/raids/RBGs.

 

Because all the information available you're expected to know. Arrive too lazy to read the write up, you'll leave for being too "clever" to not to read.

he can always play solo.

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4736

2/02/14 4:30:35 AM#10
Originally posted by Sawlstone

One statement that is without a doubt true. Mmorpgs would not seem as on 'rails' if databases didn't exsist. How do you feel? 

Nah............ the problem is the Quest Hubbing System.

You don't even have to check ZAM or any other database site to progress fast in a MMO, you only need to follow hub after hub on autopilot.

That's the problem of modern MMOs

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/02/14 4:55:43 AM#11
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by RealmLordsKen

When I first started WoW, also my first MMORPG, and I learned of the "look up your quest" web sites...

 

I considered it cheating.

 

I also was never a fan of "hint books" for RPGs, and felt the same way about them.

 

I use them when I have to because of poorly written quests, or when I have zero immersion in the game and just want to plow through game mechanics to level my character.

You can't even do group quests anymore without looking up how to do them -- the group will kick you.

 

Same applies to dungeons/raids/RBGs.

 

Because all the information available you're expected to know. Arrive too lazy to read the write up, you'll leave for being too "clever" to not to read.

he can always play solo.

Go ahead, Nari. I'm sure you can play tank/healer/DPS to the tune of 10+ players and solo SoO to finish those quests!

 

lololol

 

Good luck!

 

ICC  was the epitome of raid quests/dailies and rep grinding. Even now, and 2 expansions after, my sis (a decked out Arcane mage) and another DPS couldn't solo it all...no heals (/flex) to get past Sindy.

  nilden

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 993

2/02/14 4:57:50 AM#12
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Sawlstone

One statement that is without a doubt true. Mmorpgs would not seem as on 'rails' if databases didn't exsist. How do you feel? 

Nah............ the problem is the Quest Hubbing System.

You don't even have to check ZAM or any other database site to progress fast in a MMO, you only need to follow hub after hub on autopilot.

That's the problem of modern MMOs

While I agree with you it's more than that. Back in the day I used ZAM and printed off maps. I would also use Magelo way back when. This is 2014 where you can do item searches in game and have glowing lines that guide you to your destination. You even have games that will auto-walk your character to your destination. Not only do they have in game maps but they are interactive as well as linked to your quest tracker.

Let's face it the amount of stuff put into these games that would have been looked up is huge and a large part of what takes away the challenge in these games when too much information is presented to the players. Don't get me wrong a lot of this is just better quality of life type things but you can go overboard with too much auto-pilot hand-holding as well as information overload.

From personal experience my guess is a lot of these MMORPG database sites will see less traffic (from me anyway) as more and more of the information is available either in game or on youtube.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Mavolence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 422

2/02/14 5:04:38 AM#13
I always thought  it was pretty lame and people who can't play without it are just thick. People gonna do what they like so I'm not going to try to stop anyone having a good time if it doesn't affect me.
  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

2/02/14 5:30:37 AM#14
Originally posted by nilden

From personal experience my guess is a lot of these MMORPG database sites will see less traffic (from me anyway) as more and more of the information is available either in game or on youtube.

The reason sites like Wowhead is popular is the comments, because it's the comments that offer the tips. Ingame tips Blizzard was specific they won't explain it all and YouTube is one players perspective. Can get over 100 insights how to down a boss, instead (and some broken down by class and role, too).

 

So no they'll remain viable for a l-o-n-g time.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

2/02/14 12:19:11 PM#15
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by RealmLordsKen

When I first started WoW, also my first MMORPG, and I learned of the "look up your quest" web sites...

 

I considered it cheating.

 

I also was never a fan of "hint books" for RPGs, and felt the same way about them.

 

I use them when I have to because of poorly written quests, or when I have zero immersion in the game and just want to plow through game mechanics to level my character.

You can't even do group quests anymore without looking up how to do them -- the group will kick you.

 

Same applies to dungeons/raids/RBGs.

 

Because all the information available you're expected to know. Arrive too lazy to read the write up, you'll leave for being too "clever" to not to read.

he can always play solo.

Go ahead, Nari. I'm sure you can play tank/healer/DPS to the tune of 10+ players and solo SoO to finish those quests!

 

lololol

 

Good luck!

 

ICC  was the epitome of raid quests/dailies and rep grinding. Even now, and 2 expansions after, my sis (a decked out Arcane mage) and another DPS couldn't solo it all...no heals (/flex) to get past Sindy.

who says in the same game? Just switch to another game and play solo content .. heck .. even wow has some of that, although i prefer solo content of many other games.

Or use LFD/LFR .. that is almost as good as solo. In fact, you can afk in LFR and still finish the raid.

 

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/02/14 12:22:14 PM#16
Originally posted by iridescence
I wish there was a way to delete all gameplay  information about every videogame from the internet except perhaps tough puzzles. It would make them a lot more fun to play to be forced to figure things out yourself or with friends like the old days. Unfortunately that will obvious  never happen

Sound like an excellent idea. Out of curiosity, who decides the cutoff point where "tough" begins?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

2/02/14 12:25:49 PM#17
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by iridescence
I wish there was a way to delete all gameplay  information about every videogame from the internet except perhaps tough puzzles. It would make them a lot more fun to play to be forced to figure things out yourself or with friends like the old days. Unfortunately that will obvious  never happen

Sound like an excellent idea. Out of curiosity, who decides the cutoff point where "tough" begins?

The guy with the most drool on his shirt...so pretty much where we are right now.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

2/02/14 1:15:05 PM#18
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by iridescence
I wish there was a way to delete all gameplay  information about every videogame from the internet except perhaps tough puzzles. It would make them a lot more fun to play to be forced to figure things out yourself or with friends like the old days. Unfortunately that will obvious  never happen

Sound like an excellent idea. Out of curiosity, who decides the cutoff point where "tough" begins?

And a totally impractical idea. And a silly one at that.

If you want to figure things out, don't read the solution on the internet. Why do you want to stop other people from doing so? You don't decide what is fun for others. If it is fun to figure things out, they will.

I find it strange to try to force other people to play games as you would.

 

  funyahns

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 316

2/02/14 1:24:18 PM#19
 Yeah I dislike a lot of the information just because it takes away the sense of exploring. Now I think that they have their place for telling you what items monsters drop, or what zone I can find specific items in.  I am hoping EQN has a good way of randomly spawning rooms and monsters so that you can never be sure of how a pull is to be done, or where an actual named boss is.  Would love to see giant dungeon zones that you can dig through with possible boss mobs anywhere.  That would also stop people from being able to camp the same spawn for days on end.
  srsnoob

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/14
Posts: 44

2/02/14 1:32:05 PM#20
To some extent, with regards to quests, I agree but I hope that nobody considers asking other players in game for help or information as "cheating." Discussion and helping others is what drives the social components in any MMO. I think for games where class or item mechanics are not straightforward, these websites and videos guides are important resources for learning how to get better. So in that respect I am glad we have them. But my personal preference is to try to improve myself first before reading up on it. This way I can explore and generate my own ideas before incorporating others ideas into my playstyle.
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