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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] Elder Scrolls Online: Thoughts on the Collector's Edition Controversy

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297 posts found
  killion81

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 911

1/30/14 4:21:46 PM#141
Originally posted by blazzen67
if the imperials are going to be available in CE edition, you can basically bet they will be available at some point in the game..like when you finish the game with one character and bring that character to lvl 50. its a non issue for me,  and when are people going to get an education on what it takes to make and maintain an MMO  24/7, month after month, year after year? and learn what is involved with running a business? i swear some people have gotten so spoiled and had the wool pulled over there eyes on the F2P model that they have come to believe that it must be free to the developers to not only make a game but then free to maintain that game year after year. to the point that they want the game handed to them on a silver platter for free..its turned people into greedy freeloaders that want the entire cake and want to eat it to.. bottom line is ANY MMO needs money coming in from somewhere on a monthly basis in order to keep these MMO's online and to keep new content for the game coming on a regular basis...period, its unavoidable.  and for me, i would MUCH rather pay one fee a month and have the ENTIRE game available to me and not have to worry about money for in game items, than get nickel and dimed to death with micro-transaction and pay gates that force players to spend more a month in order to have access to everthing a game has to offer. i really want the free to play model to die, because its the kiss of death for the MMO.  anyone who doesnt like the sub fee or doesnt agree with it, there is a very easy solution, either stop playing MMO's, because its not for you or don't buy games  that have a sub fee, move on, and stop whining about it. because it isnt going away..thank god.   i can tell you this, IF this game ever goes free to play, i will stop playing it because it will be the kiss of death for this game, just like all the rest.

 

I think you may have missed what is being discussed.  I recommend at least skimming through the majority of the thread.  People are definitely not complaining about the subscription fee.

  zaylin

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 793

1/30/14 4:22:03 PM#142

Did anyone read the faq on the TESO page. you ONLY have to pre order to get the ability to play any race on any alliance.

What is the Explorer’s Pack?

[ If players pre-purchase the game through The Elder Scrolls Online Store (https://store.elderscrollsonline.com) or pre-order at any participating retailer, they'll receive the Explorer's Pack, a digital bundle that includes: ] — The ability for the player's characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose — The Scuttler , a tiny but loyal vanity pet — Four bonus treasure maps that will lead the player to loot ** When players pre-purchase through The Elder Scrolls Online Store, the Explorer's Pack will automatically be added to their account. If they pre-order the game through a participating retailer, closer to launch they'll be provided with a code they can redeem after registering an account at https://account.elderscrollsonline.com. Players can contact their preferred retailer for more details.

the rest of the digital fluff is just bonus stuff. if peeps wanna pay extra $$ for a mount , a race, let them. like some have said other games have given bonus races and other such stuff for CE's . I honestly thought you had to buy the CE to be able to play on any side, now that i know you only have to pre order, guess imma head to Gamestop :)

 

Game looks fun, my friends are going to be playing (most important part) all this hoopla is soo silly

  roger82

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/06
Posts: 17

1/30/14 4:26:30 PM#143

If anything I am more upset that once again, we are getting price gouged in Australia, not just for the physical copies, but for digital versions as well.

For reference, digital standard edition for us is $80 and digital deluxe is $119.

Physical deluxe edition is also going to be $140.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

1/30/14 4:27:56 PM#144

What would be interesting to see (If at all possible) would be where the averages lie after the 1st 2 weeks - 1st 30 days, in terms of how well the players are doing in the game. How far they have progressed, how much wealth they have amassed, What they have accumulated. Etc etc. I'd love to see the difference between the players who bought the extras vs. those who didn't. That would be a good indication of whether the terms P2W or P2P apply.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 3029

1/30/14 4:28:06 PM#145
This was one of the most well written articles I've seen on this site. It covered a wide range of points and it was very easy to understand...not to mention it was just logical. +1000 to the author. If people would just try to calm down and actually read what he wrote carefully, you would see that this really is a lot of drama about nothing. If you compare this CE with just about every CE before, especially SWTOR, you will realize this is a great value and not hurting anyone. It's a vanity race. Geez, get over it. It doesn't come with any different content or story. As he stated, you can upgrade to the CE edition after release if you want it so bad. We want Zenimax to be profitable if we want a quality game that doesn't feel as if you have to buy content in piecemeal. 

There Is Always Hope!

  Grakulen

Staff Writer

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 440

1/30/14 4:30:42 PM#146
Originally posted by roger82

If anything I am more upset that once again, we are getting price gouged in Australia, not just for the physical copies, but for digital versions as well.

For reference, digital standard edition for us is $80 and digital deluxe is $119.

Physical deluxe edition is also going to be $140.

I don't know why that is but is there a chance it has to do with import tariffs that Australia might place on the goods? If that's the case those are going to get passed on to the consumer.

 

  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

1/30/14 4:31:56 PM#147
Originally posted by pmcubed
Originally posted by Adokas
Originally posted by gamerman98

To me paying for a collectors edition is one thing, but to use a class that should have already been in the game from the get go JUST to boost sales, is not only deceptive, but shows me that they sure dont take their fan base seriously. Its just all for the big bucks. Sure glad im not going to be wasting my money on this.

You don't get any "class". You get a race. The racial passives in ESO are minor. Like WoW. So for the very most part, that race is a skin. A cosmetic. Just another human race.

 

WoW racials are not "minor" lol.  There is a reason competitive Arena is pretty much all undead or human.

 

All right, fair. Minor like some of the racials then, or how some of them used to be! :-)
  SonOfValmar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/14
Posts: 49

1/30/14 4:48:54 PM#148

It is very interesting to see this controversy develop here on mmorpg.com. I am unsure if this is becoming (or ever will become) a widespread pr nightmare; however, i believe there are some key points to be discussed here.

 

1) Imperials were originally thought to be kept out of the game because they did not fit into the 3 Faction model this game is designed around. Becoming available seemingly out of nowhere is a bit of a shocker and of course they are behind an additional payment. I wonder how long this race was in development, and if their implementation was simply an attempt to extract cash from players/fans wanting to play such a race or did their creation stem from the developers' own desires?

 

2) While the Imperial Race has received the most discussion, I do not believe it to be the most significant point. I am surprised more people are not centering their focus around being able to play any race on any faction. It is amusing to see a single pre-order bonus blatantly undermine a game's design so easily. One cannot deny that ESO was designed, at its core, with the 3 Locked Faction philosophy in mind, and as such many of the systems built in the game revolved around this concept. Such a pre-order bonus ruins the weight of that design and renders the purpose of many features in the game pointless.

 

3) With the pre-order bonus of being able to play any race on any faction in mind, one must ponder what was the purpose of designing the game with faction limitations in mind? Why design ESO in the way that they have if they were willing to implement such a bonus? For me, this is a red flag as it shows the developers either have little control over their product so any design in this game could be undermined if additional monies is involved, or that they have little faith in their original vision for the game.

 

I will enjoy reading the conversation this pre-order controversy stirs up. From my perspective, the pre-order bonus of being able to play any face on any faction is a dangerous way to undermine your core design philosophies for a few more funds.

  User Deleted
1/30/14 4:49:57 PM#149
Didn't we all agree here that we will support p2p model? So we don't have to deal with cash shop or extra content for more cash? Box price is insane, it is the most expensive game in my country, with sub, with collector's edition cost even more you have to buy to have full content. You just can smell cash shop coming from this move. If people are willing to preorder game like this, there is no hope for future of MMOs.
  User Deleted
1/30/14 5:01:50 PM#150
I wonder how long it takes for people to realize the obvious pre-order bait.
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

1/30/14 5:05:23 PM#151
Originally posted by Dihoru
I wonder how long it takes for people to realize the obvious pre-order bait.

Probably right after the post-release switch

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1061

1/30/14 5:14:39 PM#152

The article is spin doctoring on behalf of Zenimax.

" While the war for Cyrodiil will be fought by three factions the forum wars over the Elder Scrolls has firmly cemented themselves into two. Those that believe ZOS is being greedy and those that are genuinely excited about the game’s collector’s edition."

This is COMPLETE BOGUS.

Many that are angry are angry over the FACT that for over a YEAR we were told that the reason why races and factions were locked was due to HAVING TO DO IT, to create PRIDE and because sacrifices must be made to make an SRPG into an MMO. And now, suddenly they are offering people the ability to be any race in any faction if they pre-order.

How many times do you expect TES fans to sit there and get slapped in the face? You are now even expecting the diehard DaoC fans that have rabidly defended this game to just except their now removing their......pride.....

I do not fall into the narrow 2 groups created in an attempt to discredit ANYONE that disagrees. The very article is offensive. It makes me believe that if Zenimax announced tomorrow that they are removing all PvP from the game and are replacing Daedra with Rainbow ponies you guys would do everything in your power to make it sound like it makes sense and is perfect for TES lore, and a TES MMO.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Katilla

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 641

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

1/30/14 5:20:23 PM#153
For everyone mad about the race/faction thing.  I also posted this in another thread, for $1 yes, one DOLLAR USD, you can go to ANY TARGET STORE on 2/2/14 and get a preorder card that includes a BETA CODE, as well as allows you to play as any race on any faction,also 5 days early access, AND also comes with a couple other in game goodies... ONE DOLLAR.  If you can't afford it, go bum quarters off your friends... oh, you also get a free $5 gift card if you buy the boxed version with the redemption, but you don't have to.  I'm gonna get my preorder from Target, then get my CE at gamestop, which i also have a pre-order from. 
  Stuka1000

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 809

1/30/14 5:20:27 PM#154
Originally posted by JJ82

The article is spin doctoring on behalf of Zenimax.

" While the war for Cyrodiil will be fought by three factions the forum wars over the Elder Scrolls has firmly cemented themselves into two. Those that believe ZOS is being greedy and those that are genuinely excited about the game’s collector’s edition."

This is COMPLETE BOGUS.

Many that are angry are angry over the FACT that for over a YEAR we were told that the reason why races and factions were locked was due to HAVING TO DO IT, to create PRIDE and because sacrifices must be made to make an SRPG into an MMO. And now, suddenly they are offering people the ability to be any race in any faction if they pre-order.

How many times do you expect TES fans to sit there and get slapped in the face? You are now even expecting the diehard DaoC fans that have rabidly defended this game to just except their now removing their......pride.....

I do not fall into the narrow 2 groups created in an attempt to discredit ANYONE that disagrees. The very article is offensive. It makes me believe that if Zenimax announced tomorrow that they are removing all PvP from the game and are replacing Daedra with Rainbow ponies you guys would do everything in your power to make it sound like it makes sense and is perfect for TES lore, and a TES MMO.

Not to mention that it completely destroys the games lore.  As someone has pointed out on the official forums you can now have a Nord fighting for the AD and sitting on the ruby throne as emperor.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/30/14 5:21:10 PM#155
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Grakulen
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

"Comparatively $20 for an entire race could be considered fair market value if not an outright steal."

It shouldn't even occur.

That's like paying extra to be a Pandarian in WoW (a multi-faction race).

Imperials have been in Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, and to see they become available for extra cash now? That's the definition of a money grab, and feels every bit like it (as things you always had now must be bought -- in the same franchise -- IS pickpocketing).

It cost me $10 to be a Pandaren in WoW.

Pandarens came with an expansion pack, it was not a pre-order special only race.

This is F2P style nickel and diming for a sub based game. Create a game with set limitations, offering away around them for more money.

It was still additional content, and it cost me extra $$.  Had I purchased it when it first released, it would have cost me $40.

The complaint here isn't that there is extra content that costs extra money.  The complaint here is that there is extra content that costs extra money that's available at launch.

That isn't my complaint. My complaint is that Firor made a point of saying that the subscription was the right fit for ESO so their wouldn't be pay-gates and "nickel and dime" microtransactions, that everyone would have the same core game experience for the sub. The niggle comes with the definition of "core" experience. It's the same smoke and mirrors type of marketing that Turbine uses. It still doesn't change the fact that he strongly inferred with that statment there would be none of this and yet here it is.

 

 

$20 is not getting nickel and dimed.  That's getting twentied.

 

This type of thing, cosmetic items, mounts, etc. in cash shops have existed in subscription games for a very long time.  Imperials are a race, sure, but there's no additional content tied to them.  There are no areas that are unlocked by being an Imperial and no starter zone content that comes with them.  It is literally a different look for a player's avatar.  It's not all that different from the options currently available in other subscription cash shops.

 

Though, there will be microtransactions at some point.  They have built in ways to give some players things and not give all the players things based on how much money they spend.  They are certainly not wanting to go with some sort of F2P Microtransaction system to fund the game, but they certainly have the framework in place to make it happen.  I'm not concerned about any of this, but if I was, that's what I'd be concerned about.

 

 

+1

 

I'm sorry, but if you think races are just "cosmetic" than you're most likely not a role player. I don't care what people say, putting races behind a time gated pay wall is greedy.

 

You act as if it were just some cosmetic "outfit." It's not. It's a whole freaking race we are talking about, locked behind a time gated pay wall. That is completely different than just an "outfit."

 

It's a race with no backstory to play through, no starter area to gawk at and no home city.  The essential components are gone.  It will look like an Imperial, but there will be no role play elements to go with it.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  killion81

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 911

1/30/14 5:25:27 PM#156
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Grakulen
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

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+1

 

I'm sorry, but if you think races are just "cosmetic" than you're most likely not a role player. I don't care what people say, putting races behind a time gated pay wall is greedy.

 

You act as if it were just some cosmetic "outfit." It's not. It's a whole freaking race we are talking about, locked behind a time gated pay wall. That is completely different than just an "outfit."

 

It's a race with no backstory to play through, no starter area to gawk at and no home city.  The essential components are gone.  It will look like an Imperial, but there will be no role play elements to go with it.

 

 

Do racial skills count as content?  Pretty sure those will be attached to the added race...

  SonOfValmar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/14
Posts: 49

1/30/14 5:26:12 PM#157
Originally posted by JJ82

The article is spin doctoring on behalf of Zenimax.

" While the war for Cyrodiil will be fought by three factions the forum wars over the Elder Scrolls has firmly cemented themselves into two. Those that believe ZOS is being greedy and those that are genuinely excited about the game’s collector’s edition."

This is COMPLETE BOGUS.

I would agree with your sentiment as I do feel that this article is disingenuous as it does nothing to really define the issues that could crop up with the pre-order bonus (most notably the Play Any Race, Any Faction). It also is an attempt to label the one's discussing this topic into two, generic categories.

 

Very poor form to try and boil down the opinion's of everyone discussing this into the broad categories of like and dislike. Such writing does a disservice to actual problems or points of note that could arise from the "controversy" by marginalizing the entire issue.

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1061

1/30/14 5:29:18 PM#158
Originally posted by eric1000

Not to mention that it completely destroys the games lore.  As someone has pointed out on the official forums you can now have a Nord fighting for the AD and sitting on the ruby throne as emperor.

The lore was destroyed by the game anyway, there is NO EMPEROR after the fall of the second dynasty until Septim reunites the lands.

In fact in game lore stated that Imperial lands are attacked ONCE before Septim  but is stopped at the gates of Marrowind.

None of these issues would be around if they weren't building the game off of DaoC idiocy, idiocy that they are trying to backtrack from as much as they can, too bad the box they made is so small there is little room to maneuver. Zenimax should have forced Bethesda to make the game instead of bringing in someone from the outside wanting to bend the IP to the only way he knows how to make games.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Stuka1000

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 809

1/30/14 5:35:16 PM#159
On a slightly different note has anyone noticed that if you buy the boxed game from Amazon it's £10 cheaper than ordering it from Zenimax but you only get 3 days head start instead of 5, how's that for penny pinching from Zenimax?  Order from someone else other than us and we take away two days of the head start so there :D 
  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

1/30/14 5:36:29 PM#160
Originally posted by JJ82
It makes me believe that if Zenimax announced tomorrow that they are removing all PvP from the game and are replacing Daedra with Rainbow ponies you guys would do everything in your power to make it sound like it makes sense and is perfect for TES lore, and a TES MMO.

Wouldn't be as bad, since when did a PvE game become PvP, again?

 

10 years of 100% PvE. It's PvP that new and frankly not even wanted. The beauty of ES is it's story and environs. It brought the ADVENTURER out to play. Not turning a piece of art into a stinking gank fest to pollute it.

 

No, that's not the Elder Scrolls I know for 10 years. It will never be what I would tolerate.

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