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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Why Notable Voice Acting in ESO Makes Sense

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  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1164

1/29/14 1:04:04 PM#21
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by JJ82

 Umm, unless those voice actors, sound studio employees and coders inputting the sound worked for free, then it took money away from other aspects of the game.

A game receives a set amount of funding that gets allocated by the producer. They don't receive funding based on each individual design aspect.

Sure, they receive a set amount of funding.  That doesn't mean you have any evidence that the developer had insufficient funding for any aspect of the game to design it the way they wanted it to be.

 You love using the word evidence don't you? Guess what, you have no evidence that they money could NOT have been used to do something else!

Actually, anyone with a brain knows that if 10 million is spent on one thing, it could have been used on something else. Like, oh hiring 50 people for $100,000 for 2 years to work on ANYTHING ELSE. 2 YEARS and 50 more people and you think they couldn't have done anything else? They couldn't have made a few more end game instances and another PvP zone? GIVE ME A BREAK.

For a game focused on END GAME, spending a ton of money on such frivolous content that's good enough with text and is going to be blown through makes NO SENSE at all.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 1:10:47 PM#22
Originally posted by JJ82

 You love using the word evidence don't you? Guess what, you have no evidence that they money could NOT have been used to do something else!

Actually, anyone with a brain knows that if 10 million is spent on one thing, it could have been used on something else. Like, oh hiring 50 people for $100,000 for 2 years to work on ANYTHING ELSE. 2 YEARS and 50 more people and you think they couldn't have done anything else? They couldn't have made a few more end game instances and another PvP zone? GIVE ME A BREAK.

For a game focused on END GAME, spending a ton of money on such frivolous content that's good enough with text and is going to be blown through makes NO SENSE at all.

You don't seem to understand the difference between having the capacity to use the money on something else, and having the *need* to use it on something else.  If the developers managed to design all the elements of the game in a way that fulfills their vision, they had enough money, and nothing suffered as the result of voice.  It's only if some aspect of the game lacked sufficient funding for their vision to be realized that you could argue money spent somewhere else was "harmful."

And you can claim the game is focused on endgame all you want, but all you are really saying is that you are personally focused on endgame.  The game offers a wide variety of content, and different players will focus on different elements.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1164

1/29/14 1:19:52 PM#23
Originally posted by CazNeerg

You don't seem to understand the difference between having the capacity to use the money on something else, and having the *need* to use it on something else.  If the developers managed to design all the elements of the game in a way that fulfills their vision, they had enough money, and nothing suffered as the result of voice.  It's only if some aspect of the game lacked sufficient funding for their vision to be realized that you could argue money spent somewhere else was "harmful."

And you can claim the game is focused on endgame all you want, but all you are really saying is that you are personally focused on endgame.  The game offers a wide variety of content, and different players will focus on different elements.

 Wow......talk about blind defense.

Ok, fine you believe that the game is going to be released with so much content that it will be enough so its just plain NOT POSSIBLE to be released in better condition. I get it. Cant say anything bad about the game. Not possible. Its perfect. TESO will do what no other MMORPG in history has done. Its that damn good. This time, it will be different!

And that last comment. Seriously. Give me a break.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1396

1/29/14 1:22:00 PM#24
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by CazNeerg

  Unless someone has proof that money was "taken away" from some other aspect of the game and re-allocated to funding the voices, there is really no rational reason to be opposed to this.

 Umm, unless those voice actors, sound studio employees and coders inputting the sound worked for free, then it took money away from other aspects of the game.

A game receives a set amount of funding that gets allocated by the producer. They don't receive funding based on each individual design aspect.

The budget is worked out and funds are allocated ahead of time. Before a company can even get the "okay" to spend a dime, they have to be able to give an at least reasonable looking explanation of how/where/why it will be spent for the people signing the checks. And yes, those people exist even within Zenimax. So, no "well Zenimax is the one signing the checks" doesn't make any difference. The process is the same.

To put it another way... the budget to pay for voice actors - as with everything else the game would need - was sorted out, reviewed and approved before the game even began production. 

If they weren't going with voice actors, and didn't need the extra funding to pay for them, the overall cost of the game could just as well have been less. It's not like they said "Well, we have all this money that was originally intended for gameplay and other areas, but we're going to take some of it and spend it on voice actors instead". Or, if their budget is already accounted for with existing projects, and they decide voice acting is something they really want/need, then they can try to acquire additional funding for it - which again, requires them to first demonstrate why spending that extra money is a good idea.

I know people like to believe developers have no idea what they're doing, because it provides ammunition to start bashing on "insert game here", but all it does is demonstrates the ignorance of ther person saying it. To actually believe that these developers are spending 10s of millions of dollars without some kind of organization or planning is naive to the extreme.

It's amazing how many people on these forums seem to think developers go into these things completely blind and develop by the seat of their pants.

 

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 1:25:29 PM#25
Originally posted by JJ82

 Wow......talk about blind defense.

Ok, fine you believe that the game is going to be released with so much content that it will be enough so its just plain NOT POSSIBLE to be released in better condition. I get it. Cant say anything bad about the game. Not possible. Its perfect. TESO will do what no other MMORPG in history has done. Its that damn good. This time, it will be different!

And that last comment. Seriously. Give me a break.

There is a difference between more and better.  Makes more sense to do a good job of every aspect of your game and have balanced amounts of different content types that to devote all of your resources to increasing the quantity of one type of content at the expense of everything else.

It's fine not to like the game, lots of people don't.  But the argument that it automatically must be the case that they did a poor job on something else just because they spent money on voice acting is, well, stupid.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1899

1/29/14 1:49:54 PM#26
Originally posted by Fendel84M

So tired of hearing "cash grab" on these forums. That term is becoming completely meaningless as literally every type of monetization method now is being referred to as a "cash grab".

Yes, we have cash and developers want to grab it so they can have cash. Doesn't matter who they are, they all want to grab your cash. "I'd rather make less money" said no developer ever.

I think I love you.

  Mtibbs1989

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2882

1/29/14 1:52:20 PM#27
Originally posted by mCalvert
Sounds like a way to waste money.

Ditto.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2882

1/29/14 1:56:21 PM#28
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Fendel84M

So tired of hearing "cash grab" on these forums. That term is becoming completely meaningless as literally every type of monetization method now is being referred to as a "cash grab".

Yes, we have cash and developers want to grab it so they can have cash. Doesn't matter who they are, they all want to grab your cash. "I'd rather make less money" said no developer ever.

I think I love you.

 Yeah, I suppose it's getting over used. I love paying for 20 dollar mounts 15 dollar costumes and other nic-nacs that would otherwise be in games to begin with. (I hope you all understand my sarcasm) as I go back to playing Marvel Super Alliance 3 instead of Marvel Heroes online because I'd much rather pay just 20-30 dollars instead of 100-300 dollars to play all the characters.

 I suppose those tablet games I keep hearing about where they're are racking up 1,000's of dollars on credit cards are fine as well. Maybe the apple store should unban the 'I'm Rich' app so that the creator can properly make their dues for such a good product.

 Or maybe you all can stop playing stupid and come to the realization of the difference between pricing an item fairly and highway robbery.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Radoo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 151

1/29/14 2:14:25 PM#29

Ok i have no idea what this title is about and i havent read  a single piece of info about it but now that i see my dear Kate Beckinsale tagged next to it, im gonna buy anything related :)

Sorry but im one of her victims.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/29/14 2:22:27 PM#30
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones

How much more though?  $100,000?  $200,000 total?  Compared to the total game budget, this isn't a whole lot.  Even if it costs a cool $1M more, it's not a huge part of the budget.  It's going to bring in sales though.  Elder Scrolls players who are fans of the game and of the voice acting are going to see this as a higher quality job than career voice actors.  Whatever it cost them is probably worth it in terms of what it will return in sales.

 You are greatly mis-informed.

The recording studio alone is going to cost more than that for using its equipment. The digitizing of that much sound is going to cost more than that. Coding that sound to the game is going to cost more than that. Matching the graphical movement of the characters to the sound is going to cost more than that.....and yes, the price of the actors is also going to cost more than that. And yes, paying the people that work in the recording studio, is going to cost more than that.

The average entry level salary of a sound engineer is just under 100k dollars a year and the major studios that work with these people are top level making double that. and that is just ONE person, there is an entire team of people for this kind of work.

There is no way that this is not costing them upwards of 20 million. That's 1/10th the budget if its 200 million and why its one of the biggest complaints about SWTOR, it sucked up way too much of the games funding that could have gone to bringing in another small team to work on things missing from the base game. 

 

The voice acting is something that was going to happen because this is an Elder Scrolls game.  The only extra expense is the difference between using career voice actors and using known movie and television actors.  If the price tag was $20M with the voice actors they picked, then the price tag is going to be close to $20M with career voice actors.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

1/29/14 2:26:42 PM#31
I like it a lot.  And despite the mass assumption from people, most of these actors work a day, or two, or maybe a week.  It's not nearly as expensive as many think.
  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1164

1/29/14 2:31:33 PM#32
Originally posted by lizardbones 

The voice acting is something that was going to happen because this is an Elder Scrolls game. 

 Right just like no race or faction locks was going to happen in a completely open world environment with no class skill locks right? Sorry, we were told a long time ago that sacrifices had to be made to make TES into an MMO yet they changed the things that didn't need to be changed and kept voice overs, which is completely wasted in MMOs. 

This is like reading the SWTOR forums during beta all over again. People blindly defending bad ideas to for the sake of it.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 2:43:50 PM#33
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones 

The voice acting is something that was going to happen because this is an Elder Scrolls game. 

 Right just like no race or faction locks was going to happen in a completely open world environment with no class skill locks right? Sorry, we were told a long time ago that sacrifices had to be made to make TES into an MMO yet they changed the things that didn't need to be changed and kept voice overs, which is completely wasted in MMOs. 

This is like reading the SWTOR forums during beta all over again. People blindly defending bad ideas to for the sake of it.

And now TOR is the second most successful MMO with a subscription option.  Lots of blind hate for that game that hasn't stopped it from being extremely successful, hopefully the blind hate for this game will have a similar level of non-impact.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1164

1/29/14 2:46:46 PM#34
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones 

The voice acting is something that was going to happen because this is an Elder Scrolls game. 

 Right just like no race or faction locks was going to happen in a completely open world environment with no class skill locks right? Sorry, we were told a long time ago that sacrifices had to be made to make TES into an MMO yet they changed the things that didn't need to be changed and kept voice overs, which is completely wasted in MMOs. 

This is like reading the SWTOR forums during beta all over again. People blindly defending bad ideas to for the sake of it.

And now TOR is the second most successful MMO with a subscription option.  Lots of blind hate for that game that hasn't stopped it from being extremely successful, hopefully the blind hate for this game will have a similar level of non-impact.

 There is no information showing how many people are still subscribed to SWTOR, with EA combining its numbers with other games states otherwise because they only do that with games not meeting expectations. Blind fanboys destroyed that game, and continues to keep it in the trash where it is. No other game lost that many subscribers in such a short amount of time.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2187

1/29/14 2:52:33 PM#35

Good voice acting is definitely a boon.

However, after seeing the high quality voice-acting in a (select) few community mods for Skyrim, I very much doubt the use of spending a lot of money to hire famous actors.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  Azaron_Nightblade

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 1754

1/29/14 2:57:39 PM#36
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by lizardbones 

The voice acting is something that was going to happen because this is an Elder Scrolls game. 

 Right just like no race or faction locks was going to happen in a completely open world environment with no class skill locks right? Sorry, we were told a long time ago that sacrifices had to be made to make TES into an MMO yet they changed the things that didn't need to be changed and kept voice overs, which is completely wasted in MMOs. 

This is like reading the SWTOR forums during beta all over again. People blindly defending bad ideas to for the sake of it.

And now TOR is the second most successful MMO with a subscription option.  Lots of blind hate for that game that hasn't stopped it from being extremely successful, hopefully the blind hate for this game will have a similar level of non-impact.

 There is no information showing how many people are still subscribed to SWTOR, with EA combining its numbers with other games states otherwise because they only do that with games not meeting expectations. Blind fanboys destroyed that game, and continues to keep it in the trash where it is. No other game lost that many subscribers in such a short amount of time.

Keep on hatin'. You do it well. :)

And while you're doing that SWTOR's twitter recently revealed that they are recording new VO's for upcoming updates.

Clearly a sign of a game that's dying.

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 2:57:58 PM#37
Originally posted by JJ82

 There is no information showing how many people are still subscribed to SWTOR, with EA combining its numbers with other games states otherwise because they only do that with games not meeting expectations. Blind fanboys destroyed that game, and continues to keep it in the trash where it is. No other game lost that many subscribers in such a short amount of time.

Lol.  The hate is strong in this one.  How many games ever had that many subscribers to lose?  Stop living in 2012.  Since the freemium conversion, servers have been packed and the cartel market has been making money hand over fist.  That game is successful.  This game will probably be successful.  The fact that neither caters to your particular tastes doesn't change that.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  EndoRoboto

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 298

1/29/14 2:58:34 PM#38
Cazneerg if you say TOR is the 2nd most successful MMO of all time again im going to throw up. Where did you read that EA's facebook? Lol
  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1164

1/29/14 3:01:06 PM#39
Originally posted by EndoRoboto
Cazneerg if you say TOR is the 2nd most successful MMO of all time again im going to throw up. Where did you read that EA's facebook? Lol

 Denial causes people to grasp at any and all things possible, doesn't matter how much contradictory information is available. They will find something, someplace that will allow them to grasp on a little longer.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  deadhope

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/08
Posts: 54

1/29/14 3:02:16 PM#40
Rub sugar on poop, it's still poop.
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