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75 posts found
  Coldren

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 423

1/29/14 12:39:42 PM#61
Originally posted by evilastro

 

WoW hasn't locked out classes for factions since Vanilla.  The only thing that would change by being Blood Elf Paladin on Alliance is your racials, since Draenei, Dwarf and Human can already be Paladins for the Alliance.  So what he said was an exact like for like -  Races and Race / Alliance combinations only.  

While some consider WoW racials serious business - everyone knows you should PvP as Undead! (small life tap and extra cc break) and Pandaren for max stats in PvE! (250 more primary...) - the racials in ESO are far more significant and gives access to a larger pool of skills akin to the class choices.

 

To answer your latter question, yes. It pretty much spits in the face of the entire point of the game, which was the conflict between the three factions.  Now its just 3 random groups fighting for no reason - much like WvWvW in GW2.

I remember the previous Shaman/Paladin split, and was there when they changed that. However, again, they aren't locking classes, only racials, which affects only 1 skill line. How much that one skill line affects play is up to debate.

As to the point of 3 random groups fighting, I would ask you and again anyone who thinks the same way the following:

If they had worded it differently, and said the ruling bodies that repesent each territory had formed alliances, and left the word RACE out of it, would that have made a difference? After all, it's war. Governments go to war, not races or individuals of a said race, even if one race controls a territory.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

1/29/14 12:41:22 PM#62
Originally posted by Stizzled

Just hearing the phrase "Explorer's Pack" screams cash shop to me.

agree - sounds like some promo from Marvel Heroes, NeverWinter, Path of Exile, EQN Landmark

all ftp games

  dontadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1048

1/29/14 12:42:55 PM#63
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by dontadow

 

My apologies. I am so warn out of all these "pay to win" rants. It sounds like people who run around spitting political slanders and have no real idea what it means. What you've told me is that they have included a way that for extra money allows you to be any race/class comibination.  Can you verify that there is a winning race/class combination that is needed to win the game. Does this lead directly or indirectly to a win condition. If you claim pay to win, then how does this effect the win?

 

I said I would let the pay to win crowd figure that out. It is borderline depending on how racials skills work with some class skills that others dont have in their arsenal. But it gives them an ADVANTAGE because it gives them MORE options. Semantics maybe but in a SUBSCRIPTION based game that is just bullshit.

 

There are a lot of arguments and debates to be had, the bottom line is they LIED. Go look up what they said about subscriptions and why they felt this game would be best served with having one. Then look at what theyre doing now. Theyre either closing off stuff once the game is released (not allowing anyone that doesnt pre order access t these 'perks') or theyre gating this stuff behind a real life cash door (allowing people to buy these 'perk' after the game is live.)

 

Either way it is in DIRET contradiction for every reason and excuse they gave for having a subscription model.

 

If this were a free to play or even a buy to play I would have ZERO issues with this. Its BECAUSE it is a subscription based game, compounded by their initial rhetoric that makes it so 'priceless'.

 

I was one of the few who said they already had a cash shop in place, that theory was shouted down, well looks like I was right. Or at least on the right track. All it shows me now is theyre going to do everything every one else does in a cash shop game, and probably more because they have the balls to do it WHILE it also has a subscription. 

My thing is, at this stage, why does a game company tweeking their words bother so many.  Only 5 to 10 % of game companies have proven that a subscription model works so why not blame them for hedging their bets. If the sub model doesnt work they can retread and already seem to be putting things in place to block off things.

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/29/14 12:42:56 PM#64
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Stizzled

Just hearing the phrase "Explorer's Pack" screams cash shop to me.

agree - sounds like some promo from Marvel Heroes, NeverWinter, Path of Exile, EQN Landmark

all ftp games

 

And all the people defending Zenimax on this will get exactly what they deserve when the milking machine is set to full throttle.

  Coldren

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 423

1/29/14 12:46:01 PM#65
Originally posted by Seilan

The ability to pick the faction/race combination you want is something that I'd imagine most would expect to be a standard game feature in a P2P game. I think we all expected that there would eventually be a cash shop element to this game (what AAA game doesn't have one to some extent, P2P or otherwise?) but to make something that should absolutely be part of the box price/subscription fee a pre-order perk that will inevitably be a micro-transaction option likely in the very near future (maybe even at release) is a dick move -- especially when you consider how many people wanted this from the very beginning, but are now expected to either pre-order or pay for the privilege. And to top it off, if you want access to the last launch race, well, you're paying extra for that too.

It just comes off as a sleazy money grab and it doesn't exactly instill you with confidence about the company.  I have no problem with CE bonuses like mounts, cosmetics, and other perks like that or a headstart for those who choose to pre-order, but prominent game features shouldn't be a part of either of them, imo.

I'm quoting your post Selian, but this response is to a few other posts as well:

So if I am understanding the perspective correctly, the belief is that those against this feel they were gyped out of something that they should have been given for paying a subscription? It's not really lore issues, but more about the money?

Just making sure I got this straight.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5550

1/29/14 12:48:10 PM#66
Originally posted by Coldren
Originally posted by Seilan

The ability to pick the faction/race combination you want is something that I'd imagine most would expect to be a standard game feature in a P2P game. I think we all expected that there would eventually be a cash shop element to this game (what AAA game doesn't have one to some extent, P2P or otherwise?) but to make something that should absolutely be part of the box price/subscription fee a pre-order perk that will inevitably be a micro-transaction option likely in the very near future (maybe even at release) is a dick move -- especially when you consider how many people wanted this from the very beginning, but are now expected to either pre-order or pay for the privilege. And to top it off, if you want access to the last launch race, well, you're paying extra for that too.

It just comes off as a sleazy money grab and it doesn't exactly instill you with confidence about the company.  I have no problem with CE bonuses like mounts, cosmetics, and other perks like that or a headstart for those who choose to pre-order, but prominent game features shouldn't be a part of either of them, imo.

I'm quoting your post Selian, but this response is to a few other posts as well:

So if I am understanding the perspective correctly, the belief is that those against this feel they were gyped out of something that they should have been given for free beause they pay a subscription

Just making sure I got this straight.

Well, probably more like given for paying a subscription.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Stizzled

Tipster

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1048

Kill Your Heroes

1/29/14 12:48:59 PM#67
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Stizzled

Just hearing the phrase "Explorer's Pack" screams cash shop to me.

agree - sounds like some promo from Marvel Heroes, NeverWinter, Path of Exile, EQN Landmark

all ftp games

 

And all the people defending Zenimax on this will get exactly what they deserve when the milking machine is set to full throttle.

I remember when Turbine offered the Adventurer's Pack for LotRO to go along with the much reduced in price Mirkwood expansion. I knew right then and there that LotRO was going F2P, before they ever even announced it.

 

Looks to me like ZOS at least has the building blocks for F2P in place. All they'll have to do is flip a few switches, just like SWTOR did.

  Coldren

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 423

1/29/14 12:50:17 PM#68
Originally posted by colddog04

I'm quoting your post Selian, but this response is to a few other posts as well:

So if I am understanding the perspective correctly, the belief is that those against this feel they were gyped out of something that they should have been given for free beause they pay a subscription

Just making sure I got this straight.

Well, probably more like given for paying a subscription.

Good point. That's better phrasing. Editing.

  Mackaveli44

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/26/08
Posts: 128

1/29/14 12:51:44 PM#69
You guys are seriously whining over something so silly that you shouldnt even be putting effort and time into.  Who cares if they add a race to the preorder?  Your not forced to buy it.  Buy the regular edition.  Its simply a CHOICE.  Get over it. 
  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1358

1/29/14 12:53:29 PM#70
Blood Elves are High Elves obsessed with magic so if The Alliance were to have Blood Elves they would be called High Elves unless for some reason actual Blood Elves wanted to join The Alliance.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/29/14 12:54:45 PM#71
Originally posted by Coldren
Originally posted by Seilan

The ability to pick the faction/race combination you want is something that I'd imagine most would expect to be a standard game feature in a P2P game. I think we all expected that there would eventually be a cash shop element to this game (what AAA game doesn't have one to some extent, P2P or otherwise?) but to make something that should absolutely be part of the box price/subscription fee a pre-order perk that will inevitably be a micro-transaction option likely in the very near future (maybe even at release) is a dick move -- especially when you consider how many people wanted this from the very beginning, but are now expected to either pre-order or pay for the privilege. And to top it off, if you want access to the last launch race, well, you're paying extra for that too.

It just comes off as a sleazy money grab and it doesn't exactly instill you with confidence about the company.  I have no problem with CE bonuses like mounts, cosmetics, and other perks like that or a headstart for those who choose to pre-order, but prominent game features shouldn't be a part of either of them, imo.

I'm quoting your post Selian, but this response is to a few other posts as well:

So if I am understanding the perspective correctly, the belief is that those against this feel they were gyped out of something that they should have been given for free beause they pay a subscription? It's not really lore issues, but more about the money?

Just making sure I got this straight.

 

Combination of trying to con people into preorders with shinies before lifting the NDA, which would allow proper reviews to be released, which could then be used to make an informed decision as a consumer.  Justifying a subscription by saying that TESO wouldn't hide content behind paywalls, then hiding content behind paywalls.  Justifying their decision to lock races into specific alliances, even when people pleaded for it to be different, then turning around and offering it as a preorder shiny... I mean who cares about their previous justifications, that was just lip service.  Anyway, it all reeks of shady marketing and cash grab.

 

I don't feel that I have been gyped out of anything.  I'm not dumb enough to fall for baseless marketing hype, so it's not going to hurt me directly at all.  However, tons of sheeple will buy into this crap and industry will call it a "success" (at fleecing tons of gamers) and make it a more common practice, probably pushing it even further next time.  This is working under the assumption that the game is going to be somewhere between mediocre and garbage, but I guess I can't be certain because I don't have enough information due to the NDA.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 437

 
OP  1/29/14 12:57:30 PM#72
Originally posted by dontadow
 

My thing is, at this stage, why does a game company tweeking their words bother so many.  Only 5 to 10 % of game companies have proven that a subscription model works so why not blame them for hedging their bets. If the sub model doesnt work they can retread and already seem to be putting things in place to block off things.

 Because THEY made such a big deal out of it. They also made it bannable on the official Bethesda forums to start topics or talk about why it was a sub game and why it wasnt buy to play or free to play.

 

They knew what they were doing all along. As did a lot of us.

 

Bait and switch 101.

 

You dont have a subscription based game as well as a cash shop in pre release. You also dont have top guys making mistakes when they talk about said stores, and then have guys come out and blatantly lie about it as claim the guy was wrong, and then a couple months later show us this bullshit.

 

You have one or the other, and then maybe after some time you might slip it in.

 

I also love how everyone is using World of Warcraft as an example of why a company SHOULD do something, when the major consensus for most people is you want to do what WoW doesnt. Thats the beauty of hypocrisy though you can use anything you want to make a point no matter how opposite the argument.

 

WoW  can do what they want because theyre WoW and they have shown the ability to milk people out of money. But two wrongs dont make a right. What they do isnt right either but the people left playing that game are stupid enough to do it so be it.

 

ESo and Zenimax made a lot of statements, even though they havent said a lot about anything. But the most clear and adamant statements they have made were about their subscription model and why they did it and what justifid it. They also have said numerous times there wouldnt be a store (at least not in the way most people would expect one) well store or not they are showing that they are welcoming peopel to spend more money than someone else to get perks that may or may not be actual advanatges. But that is really irrelevant. Because their main point was a subscription would get you everything in the game everyone else got. That is a total lie and has now been proven as such.

 

There is zero defense for it other than spin and rhetoric.

 

I dont mind the game, I would buy it and play it if it werent subscription based. And I could live with their plans they have now. I could care less about so called advantages. My point is theyre getting everything and the middle too. But my subscription gets me NOTHING but access to the servers. Well there are a couple hundred other games that offer access tot heir servers for nothing. And those games are all pretty upfront about how if you spend money you get more than someone who doesnt. But I am not spending a sub fee on top of it.

  rockin_ufo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 376

Zoraï

1/29/14 1:00:59 PM#73
Originally posted by Mackaveli44
You guys are seriously whining over something so silly that you shouldnt even be putting effort and time into.  Who cares if they add a race to the preorder?  Your not forced to buy it.  Buy the regular edition.  Its simply a CHOICE.  Get over it. 

A choice that if you wait till later to buy the game you have to pay extra.

Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2035

1/29/14 1:11:32 PM#74
Originally posted by Stizzled

I remember when Turbine offered the Adventurer's Pack for LotRO to go along with the much reduced in price Mirkwood expansion. I knew right then and there that LotRO was going F2P, before they ever even announced it.

 

Looks to me like ZOS at least has the building blocks for F2P in place. All they'll have to do is flip a few switches, just like SWTOR did.

Adventurer's Pack arrived WITH Mirkwood, not with the Mirkwood sale on the following summer.

 

I agree with the other part with the built-in f2p features. There was the column about the upcoming three sub-games, many folks stated in the comments under it the same, ESO (and probably Wildstar as well) is only after the initial burst income from the boxes, and after a year they'll most likely drop the sub.

I guess we'll see in about a year.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 1:19:24 PM#75
Originally posted by killion81

And all the people defending Zenimax on this will get exactly what they deserve when the milking machine is set to full throttle.

Yes, they will.  When they add a cash shop and a free option eventually, subscribers will continue to get the subscriber experience, and everyone will get to purchase things they want in the cash shop for prices which (by virtue of the fact they are paying them) they have agreed are fair.  Everyone will be getting exactly what they deserve, which is no more or less than what they are willing to pay for.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

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