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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Guild Wars 2: Need More Heals?

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114 posts found
  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1184

1/28/14 1:45:46 PM#101
Originally posted by TangentPoint

So, GW2 can offer as much depth in character builds and party compositions as it wants (and that potential is definitely there, I can see it as well). But so long as they continue to create encounters that don't require that kind of strategy/thinking... it's wasted potential. Because people are just going to continue stacking their Guardians to get through everything faster.

 

Offering people those options is only half the equation. You have to give them legitimate reason to use them. By many accounts, GW2 never - or at least very seldom - gives you that reason.

 
 

Because the trolls have come out in full blast to defend GW2 or bash it without reading the thread topic, I will just quote the one man that seems to get it in the above excerpt.

 

For the rest of you who still do not get it:

That's great the there is no trinity. It is a wonderfully refreshing change, except that there is no point to all the variation builds when you can just stack DPS warriors to do everything more efficiently than ANY other class. And as long as we have elitist power gamers, aka min-maxers, they will continue to force the cookie-cutter dps warrior setup on everyone else.

 

So we went from a system that was dependent on healers/tanks to a system that shuns ANY OTHER PLAYSTYLE all for the glory of the fast dungeon clear, or tier 1 WvWvW win. THAT is what people are disappointed & upset about. What many have learned is that out of the two evils, many prefer the standard trinity system because ANet failed to utilize their newfound interdependency between class builds.

  Haralin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/11
Posts: 48

1/28/14 2:32:07 PM#102

In GW2 you only need one class for all the content the warrior.

 

The Warrior is the most overpowerd class in the game and needs a big nerf.

 

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

1/28/14 3:15:45 PM#103
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by stormpuma21

Meh.. Lack of thorough knowledge of all classes triggered this article and only a few here touched on it so far..

The Engineer has a Kit (medkit) that has nothing but heal skills in the form of medpacks. In the same Kit, the Engineer has two more skills that give you buffs/boons for stats like crit and one to cure conditions. Once traited they recharge super quick and can be thrown through ground targeting.

 

And the engineer has a healing Turret that can be used in conjunction with the medpak. (Toss the healing turret on a wall/tree/ceiling and watch it never be destroyed.) 

As far as rezzing people, the Engineer has Elixir R that can be thrown on to Allies when they are downed to instantly revive them, amongst other healing/buffing Elixirs..

Let's also remember that the Elixir gun has 2  AoE healing spells and combined with healing turret, you have 2 AoE healing spells that can be combo'ed into.

 

All of those skills above can be equipped on the same row. Healing Turret/Medkit/Elixir Gun and Elixir R. Full support. Even more healing if the Engineer has the Supply Crate for it's elite, which always drops a healing turret if specced for it.

Sounds like a dedicated healer to me, if a player wants to be, but most people don't/won't play like that but the option is there...

 

You know what happens when I bring my eng healer into a dungeon? I get kicked before we even start.

You know what happens when I bring my Healway spec Guardian? I get kicked or asked if I have a Warrior alt.

You know what happens when I bring my tier 1 support ele into a dungeon? I get kicked, asked to respec, or asked to switch to my warrior alt.

 

So yeah, you are right, there ARE other choices, unfortunately all those other choices are sub-optimal. The problem is not that they didn't abide by the holy trinity, the problem is that the game mechanics they put in place do not SUPPORT their original vision. 

 

And what is worse is that the horrendous LFG tool (that's still in beta) condones this behavior.

As you're not appreciated for a dedicated and specialized role. In the effort to give people 10001 alts to play, devs have short changed specialists.

 

If A guy can do what B guy can do, and doesn't need to even heal, why bring a healer with 1/2 the DPS? This is what made the challenge dungeon runs in WoW a joke. Three 3 DPS could only get the gold medal in time. So that leaves even less content for healers to do.

 

So when DPS scream that they can't kill a healer in 2 minutes, what do the devs do? Add stacking healing debuffs. -50% healing applied so many times you'd have 10% actual healing output...in a game with addons to pick out any healer, too.

 

It's rewarding the lowest common denominator for insta-kills. Punish healers to the point of not playing. And turn MMORPGs upset down for cheap thrills in 2 minutes.

 

For what GW2 did to MMO healing, may it burn in the 9th ring of Hell for eternity.

 
  Fdzzaigl

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 1868

1/28/14 4:22:26 PM#104

I once went full heal power staff Elementalist (simply bought the exotic temple set + jewelry).

And it was actually quite viable, but ONLY in WvWvW turtling formations. Extremely hard to kill, great support, but no chance whatsoever to kill something yourself.

I think the Monk could've been added to the game, not in a full heal role perhaps, but as a class with strong support options.

The biggest problem is that GW2 gives very little incentive to players to take on a support role (outside of structured PvP). It just means less WvW or dungeon rewards for you, and going full-on DPS is better for dungeons in the first place. At least that was the case when I played, it has been some time.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3051

I am more than some of my parts

1/28/14 4:55:00 PM#105
I don't think they should change the mechanics as such, but maybe just record some numbers on how much heals a player has done and give them some perks for their efforts. I would gladly spend more time healing but there is no incentive for healing a bunch of random other players in a world event. At least with rezzing someone they will occasionally say thanks.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1219

1/28/14 5:43:40 PM#106
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by tom_gore

While it's true that GW2 had no new competition to speak of during its existence (FFXIV probably being the biggest competitor) and that ANet will need to work harder this year to keep their playerbase, introducing trinity is NOT the way to accomplish that. By doing that they would only put themselves against even more competition and alienate their current playerbase.

Funny how almost everyone I know that tried GW2, would go back if trinity is added. I m sure we re not the only people that think this way.

Funny everyone I know that plays GW2 would probably quit if trinity is added.

See how the door swings both ways?

 

Oh, I see it, but you can t say introducing trinity is NOT the way to accomplish anything. You don t know, unless you have facts stating otherwise, that adding trinity, wouldn t bring way more to the game. I ll venture to guess it would.

  jdizzle2k13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/13
Posts: 68

1/28/14 10:54:11 PM#107
Originally posted by rasli

I love the fact that GW2 has no holy-trinity, finally a refreshing MMO instead of the same old same old.  I think their goal of having soft trinity of dps-control-support works pretty well in WvW and PvP, however they do need to tweek their PvE encounters a little bit.  All dps, control, support roles are viable in PvE, however right now only dps is the optimal (if you like min max) in pve.  Hopefully the actions ANET is doing to address this problem will be sufficient.

I definitaly hope ANET will not go back to the holy trinity.  People who cannot live with it can go play plenty of other MMOs.  There is no need for ANET to alienate its current player base (which is really big) by backtracking.

This.  If they found some way to put something into dungeons where having 5 berserkers isn't viable anymore (or at least it makes it much harder) then there will be places for people that do more support type roles.


  JudgeUK

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/11
Posts: 652

1/29/14 4:00:24 AM#108
Originally posted by Haralin

In GW2 you only need one class for all the content the warrior.

 

The Warrior is the most overpowerd class in the game and needs a big nerf.

 

Got a few classes and cannot disagree with this, Warrior is my go to character.

  kitarad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 892

1/29/14 6:19:09 AM#109

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFe-UOWvA8&list=UUch1FHsuRgkBJkp5o2g2mmw&feature=c4-overview

This video kinda explains why other builds are not tolerated in GW 2 and how DPS is all there is.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3051

I am more than some of my parts

1/29/14 12:46:45 PM#110
Originally posted by kitarad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFe-UOWvA8&list=UUch1FHsuRgkBJkp5o2g2mmw&feature=c4-overview

 

This video kinda explains why other builds are not tolerated in GW 2 and how DPS is all there is.

That was a waste of time. 5 minutes to make a verbal disclaimer about his position, I couldn't be bothered with his actual point whenever it may have come.  

 

Here is  my position.

Elitists are focused on themselves and are not worth the time to care about. If someone wants me to change my build to survive in a dungeon fine, if someone wants me to change my build so it shaves off 30 seconds of playtime they can be blocked because I NEVER want to waste another single moment on that self-righteous prick again. EVER.

 

I'll play GW2 with all the people that the elitists won't group with and enjoy the game rather than "go to work" in my favorite mmo.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  tom_gore

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1789

1/29/14 12:52:49 PM#111
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by tom_gore

While it's true that GW2 had no new competition to speak of during its existence (FFXIV probably being the biggest competitor) and that ANet will need to work harder this year to keep their playerbase, introducing trinity is NOT the way to accomplish that. By doing that they would only put themselves against even more competition and alienate their current playerbase.

Funny how almost everyone I know that tried GW2, would go back if trinity is added. I m sure we re not the only people that think this way.

Funny everyone I know that plays GW2 would probably quit if trinity is added.

See how the door swings both ways?

 

Oh, I see it, but you can t say introducing trinity is NOT the way to accomplish anything. You don t know, unless you have facts stating otherwise, that adding trinity, wouldn t bring way more to the game. I ll venture to guess it would.

Neither can you say introducing trinity would actually accomplish anything but break the whole game. They already have a vastly successful MMO. Why would they risk it all by changing the core mechanics of the game?

They made a conscious design choice by not going for a trinity mechanic. So far it seems to be the right choice, or at least a working choice for them.

 

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2735

1/29/14 1:56:39 PM#112
Comparing like for like, the best trinity mmorg is wow and their 5 man instances are totally screwed up, zerging, ignoring any semblance of tactics, rounding up entire rooms, little need for a tank it goes on. The issue us as with gw2 is the fact that modern players do not want to play dedicated roles - they all want to dps all the time and weak games designers have pandered to this. Early wow dungeons needed good trinity and gw1 instances required a good valance of skills.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2735

1/29/14 1:57:14 PM#113
Comparing like for like, the best trinity mmorg is wow and their 5 man instances are totally screwed up, zerging, ignoring any semblance of tactics, rounding up entire rooms, little need for a tank it goes on. The issue us as with gw2 is the fact that modern players do not want to play dedicated roles - they all want to dps all the time and weak games designers have pandered to this. Early wow dungeons needed good trinity and gw1 instances required a good balance of skills.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  bendello

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/12
Posts: 2

1/31/14 6:11:07 AM#114
I'm sorry but its the player who has failed not the game.  You should not be thinking of efficiency while playing a GAME.  You should be thinking "Am I having fun?"  Its not about how fast you can complete a dungeon.  It's about the ambiance and fun.  Quit sucking the fun out of all the MMOs with your speed runs.
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