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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Guild Wars 2: Need More Heals?

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114 posts found
  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1296

1/27/14 1:31:05 PM#21
Needs more everything, honestly.
  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

1/27/14 1:32:24 PM#22
Originally posted by cheyane

Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.


In this regard City of X did a way better job of giving classes non traditional ways to support a gameplay while making it more obvious and fun when we killed bosses.

You said it exactly. The combat system is quite complex and there are support roles. The problem is that it is never really required in any of the leveling up process. People never see the complexity because there is no need for it based on the content. People then resort to thinking that this is all there is to it and leave out of pure boredom.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Nevulus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1217

1/27/14 1:33:19 PM#23
Originally posted by cheyane

Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.

I call BS.

 

I played on two servers, tier 1 and tier 2 WvW. 

For dungeons: Warriors still reign supreme. If you want to finish a dungeon quick nothing beats the zerk war setup. Hundreds of videos prove this.

 

For WvW: I will gladly put ANY combination you THINK versus the warrior train. Warrior train will win everytime, considering they can heal and damage with the best of them. It takes a different class build than a dungeon group, but the premise is still the same. Normally I would've thrown in a Guardian for good measure, but they got a nasty nerf recently.

 

Sure other classes are viable, but the very best combo revolves around one class and one class only. Other peopel can continue to live in denial if they want.

 

And as for the game dying, I'm not sure where people are getting this info from, when I am in-game, I see lots of people playing on various servers at odd times. Definitely not the sign of a dying game.

  User Deleted
1/27/14 1:38:56 PM#24
Originally posted by Soki123
Needs more everything, honestly.

Needs more cowbell!

  User Deleted
1/27/14 1:41:28 PM#25
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by cheyane

Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.

I call BS.

 

I played on two servers, tier 1 and tier 2 WvW. 

For dungeons: Warriors still reign supreme. If you want to finish a dungeon quick nothing beats the zerk war setup. Hundreds of videos prove this.

 

For WvW: I will gladly put ANY combination you THINK versus the warrior train. Warrior train will win everytime, considering they can heal and damage with the best of them. It takes a different class build than a dungeon group, but the premise is still the same. Normally I would've thrown in a Guardian for good measure, but they got a nasty nerf recently.

 

Sure other classes are viable, but the very best combo revolves around one class and one class only. Other peopel can continue to live in denial if they want.

 

And as for the game dying, I'm not sure where people are getting this info from, when I am in-game, I see lots of people playing on various servers at odd times. Definitely not the sign of a dying game.

 Again, really, how many times they going to nerf the poor Guardian. 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

1/27/14 1:42:53 PM#26

No dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer and tank builds... That make a party grow in power, and leave the dps to what they like... The mindless gameplay...

 

the game would function better with more dedicated healing power... And a more structured froup play

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  neobahamut20

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 355

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/27/14 1:50:51 PM#27

Flop

LFG tool looks like

 

LF2M - Heavies only - Rangers/Theives auto-kick

 

So instead of searching for the trinity you search for survivability. Nothing changed and they have failed. Players told them it wasnt working in beta and they did not listen.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 780

1/27/14 1:54:04 PM#28

I never called the LFG channel a plague. Off course it gets stupid if it takes like 30 minutes each time you want a group. But that's a problem that can be fixed in other ways.

To me the LFG channel was perhaps the best channel of all. They fixed something that wasn't broken.

  Skuall

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 795

1/27/14 2:00:51 PM#29
Originally posted by muffins89
if this game had the "trinity" I would be playing it right now.

+1

dungeons are fun , but the lack of trinity kills that fun, is a dps zerg , while rolling on the floor (no laughing allowed)

 

ppl will take only Guardian Warrior, Mesmer ....lots of those jobs around because are the only 1 that get some party play.

GL finding a group as thief or ranger.

  VikingGamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1253

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

1/27/14 2:15:26 PM#30

I have said it many times. GW2 is one of the best games ever in pretty much every aspect except combat which was bad enough to convince me to quit. I suppose the style of combat lends itself well to WvW but for PvE grouping it is horrible. I still genuinely believe that GW2 doesn't do as well as it does because of the combat design. It does well despite the combat design because the rest of the game design is simply that good.

If you could take Tera's action combat and role design and combine it with everything else from GW2, the game would be unstoppable.

All die, so die well.
Join SOLA in ArcheAge.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6693

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

1/27/14 2:22:59 PM#31

I can't say a flop if people are enjoying it ,but i can and will say Arena.net took the LAZY approach.I would also say their TRUE intentions are not direct and up front,i would say they lied a bit to the gamer's.Yo usee not only was their design EASIER to do the entire game was focused on an easier to design approach,so where they really aiming to help the cause or themselves,the true answer is embedded at Arena.net.

FFXi is a true class game and trinity  as well,however they improved the idea by creating the sub class system.They also made sure to design classes diverse enough that a healer was not always needed.The healer role was not JUST a healer as Arena net tried to portray it,in FFXI it played several roles and kept a player VERY busy.

A well thought out design with grouping in mind will be the best at what it does.Arena net instead contradicted themselves in all of it's design.

If they were so worried about gamer's being able to form groups,why then did they design the AUTO group feature?If players are going to auto put into one giant group why bother with the rest of the design?Also no matter how you slice it,somewhere along the line,someone or several WILL have to heal.That is why i feel Arena.Net had a different agenda,you are not going to remove healing and if no spike healing is needed,then combat is too easy.

There are many other arguments and facts but one i like to look at is "organized" game play.Arena.nets design was a deterrent from  organized more like a simple design to have people just wander about and be auto grouped when an event arose.

bottom line is ,if Arena Net was serious about helping the grouping,they surely did not put forth a great effort.FFXI created several healers including the Paladin that can heal and Monks have a small heal as well does the Dragoon.You have the RDM,WHM,Dancer  and Bluemage all with healing ability.No shortage there nor is there any need for waiting.If yo ucreate FUN classes top play,there will ALWAYS be healers to join groups.

I will use one final example...

In the heyday of FFXI when groups were  all around you,there was more a shortage of Black mage than anything,it was because groups wanted that solid nuker to kill faster,so no it has not always been about needing a healer.Arena.net just wanted to paint a bleek picture to support their design.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4645

1/27/14 2:31:27 PM#32

I don't think the attempt was a fail as much as the implementation was.

I am currently playing GW2 again on a very casual basis leveling a low level Warrior. I've been out of the level 80 loop for a for a while now, but before I left. PVE groups were always trying to create builds that attempted to put the Trinity back in the game. As a Guardian, Mesmer, or Warrior, you were golden. As an Engineer, or Elementalist  it wasn't so bad but you weren't preferred. As a Thief or Ranger or Necro, you are better off getting guild runs going. Even then, I was in a guild where an officer wouldn't go if anyone was on their Ranger alt

The Idea that any 5 players could join any dungeon was a pipe dream. The reality is that you still have to wait around for the desired comps in teams. It was a total backfire in reality.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2920

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/27/14 2:32:29 PM#33
Originally posted by NomadMorlock

There is a lot of merit in specialized roles.  They walked away from this and the end result is a crazy free for all where everyone is a hybrid and group coordination is gone.

Worst mistake of the game.

Actually, it requires too much group coordination now. Trinity MMOs everyone can jump right in and already know what they have to do without even speaking. With GW2s system you really have to communicate with each other and decide who is going to be using what.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2920

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/27/14 2:33:39 PM#34
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

No dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer and tank builds... That make a party grow in power, and leave the dps to what they like... The mindless gameplay...

 

the game would function better with more dedicated healing power... And a more structured froup play

 

Sorry, staring at health bars and hitting heal is pretty mindless.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

1/27/14 2:35:13 PM#35
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by cheyane

Actually quite a lot of utility in classes like the Engineer and support in Elementalist and Guardian are available but people don't see it or know how to utilize it in an event. So everyone mad dashes to DPS and the subtler and more interesting aspects fall to the wayside because of lack of use. So only guild groups know how to play with them and succeed very well as seen in videos of 8 people killing 20 or more in WvWvW. However Joe Average ain't going to be playing like that while levelling up and this is why the rate of attrition in GW 2 is so high because the game gets boring after awhile.

I call BS.

 

I played on two servers, tier 1 and tier 2 WvW. 

For dungeons: Warriors still reign supreme. If you want to finish a dungeon quick nothing beats the zerk war setup. Hundreds of videos prove this.

 

For WvW: I will gladly put ANY combination you THINK versus the warrior train. Warrior train will win everytime, considering they can heal and damage with the best of them. It takes a different class build than a dungeon group, but the premise is still the same. Normally I would've thrown in a Guardian for good measure, but they got a nasty nerf recently.

 

Sure other classes are viable, but the very best combo revolves around one class and one class only. Other peopel can continue to live in denial if they want.

 

And as for the game dying, I'm not sure where people are getting this info from, when I am in-game, I see lots of people playing on various servers at odd times. Definitely not the sign of a dying game.

What you're talking about is completely besides the point of class mechanics.

This is a result of players pigeon holding themselves deliberately, and then blaming the game for it.

Yes, zerker warriors have the fastest clear times for dungeons, because you are taking the highest sustained damage class in the game and stacking it. Big shocker. This doesn't automatically make every other class irrelevant, but people still act like it does.

Same w/ WvW. People stack warriors cause it's brainless and easy. It doesn't make it the best comp, especially when you get outside the mega zergs (which currently plague tier1), and  have to start using actual tactics. I've ran w/ numeros setups in WvW (tier 1) that work against warrior trains. It just requires a little bit of coordination.

- As for the OP, this discussion is really tired. Yes, GW2 sidestepped the trinity. Yes, it works. People need to get over it. I know people love the simplicity and accessibility the trinity provides. It's easy to understand, and everyone can jump in and play it with minimal effort or thought.

GW2 is not that type of game. It revolves around buildcrafting & skill. Combining well thought out gear & ability load outs with efficient execution of such. If anything it leads  to more strategy (not less), and there are numerous videos that illustrate this. You don't see very many videos of WoW-like gameplay where people are taking on huge zergs with small skilled groups and succeeding. They just don't allow for that.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2363

1/27/14 2:47:12 PM#36

The only zones people play in are Queensdale and Kessex Hills. Those are populated with the train that goes from one champ to another. But try other zones which I played in I have seen almost no one else in Harathi Hinterlands, Bloodtide Coast or Gendarran Hills at most may be one other person. That is really sad all those zones no one in it. The game is busy only in certain areas and this is my experience as recent as last week. This is because you can level to 80 just doing the champ zerg train. I want to go to zones and play with people but no such luck lol instead of the lower level zones getting empty because of the system that levels you down people congregate in one place and miss out on all the other events while grinding to 80. What a horrid way to play.

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  Sajman01

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 208

1/27/14 2:52:54 PM#37
3 > 1.5

Trinity is too complex for Guild Wars.
  User Deleted
1/27/14 3:14:18 PM#38
Most definitely a flop, especially concerning dedicated heals, without dedicated heals truly skilled players can be overwhelmed just by bringing more numbers to the battle.
While we are at it, the downed mechanic is a flop too. If I beat you, your dead, if anything should be made faster, it's the finishing move and not the revival. Finishers should be fast and might as well at some Mortal Combat animations too.

A haha yes!!! Thief grapples the weakling and rips his head off his neck pulling his spine out along with it, blood gushes from the lifeless body, blood drips from the spine, the thief stands holding the head and spine long enough to watch the eyeballs nearly popping out fade to black....


Rockniss awakens from Gw2 dream blood and slaughter edition.
  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

1/27/14 3:26:35 PM#39
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

No dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer and tank builds... That make a party grow in power, and leave the dps to what they like... The mindless gameplay...

 

the game would function better with more dedicated healing power... And a more structured froup play

 

Sorry, staring at health bars and hitting heal is pretty mindless.

You can always tell the people that never actually played a healing class or raided with a healing class because they make statements like this.......

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  gunmanvlad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/23/07
Posts: 101

1/27/14 3:30:44 PM#40

Lets be fair, GW2's system failed because 99.99% of (MMO) gamers are retarded and can't think, play or react at all.

 

I still remember a certain dungeon path (Arah Dwayna) which had 900+ pages on the forums with people complaining that it is broken or impossible or smthg and me and my guild were farming it for kicks. Same with all of CoE before they nerfed it. The system was brilliant, it required more than just afk-mashing-of-buttons to fulfil that one role you're designed to fulfil anyway.

 

Hopefully Wildstar can cater to the masses while also offering more diversity to skilled players who like being challenged.

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