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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Should gamers organize? Gamer union(s)?

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213 posts found
  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:10:00 PM#1

I was reading this old article http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/06/the-perfect-ten-absolutely-ridiculous-cash-shop-selections/

I doubt things has gotten that much better, I've been looking at some of the prices in Lotro for things, and it's just insane high prices on some stuff.

The way the EvE community handled it in the article seems to me to be very effective.

My impression is that cashshop phenomena is a combination of players with alot of money, kids with parents creditcards, players that make stupid, impulsive decisions (read purchases), and gamecompanies with lack of morals and ethics who are willing to exploit customers as much as possible.

The losers in this end up being the players with common sense, that knows it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

It seems to me that alot of gamers are unhappy with the choices that gamecompanies sometimes make, and I wonder if gamers union that could communicate and set demands as to how a game should be, not just financially but with gameplay as well.

It would function in principle as a real-life union, - if the company didnt provide what the gamers wanted, they would simply not provide what the companies seems to want the most, which is of course money.

A union would not only stop undesired whatever to be in a game, but negotiate lower subscription fee's for it's members, or for everyone.

 

I understand some people would think this to be ridiculous, cause it's just a game not a way of income, at least for players. And perhaps some  would be more understanding to the greedy nature of some companies. 

But, if you look at some of the labour unions in different countries, some of them are much smaller than if you organized the total amount mmorpg'ers. And if the those labour unions were to be threatened, they would not be overrun or go down easily. There are just too many workers for that to happen, at least in somewhat democraticv countries.

 

What do you think, would you join a Gamers Union if it would give you financial or otherwise related benefits in games?

Would it work, would it fail?

Would it have a good or bad influence on games?

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1164

1/26/14 3:12:41 PM#2

Unless you are actually getting paid to game (and I know some people do) you want a consumer rights organization not a union and yes I think more consumer advocacy is always a good thing.

 

Although no amount of consumer protection is going to stop people from buying stupid crap in cash shops unfortunately.

 

  MMOman101

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1204

1/26/14 3:25:18 PM#3
Gamers should be more careful consumers. 
  tarodin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/15/08
Posts: 81

1/26/14 3:25:24 PM#4
we are consumers... we are the last link, we are the bounty
  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

1/26/14 3:25:54 PM#5

No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:27:59 PM#6
Originally posted by iridescence

Unless you are actually getting paid to game (and I know some people do) you want a consumer rights organization not a union and yes I think more consumer advocacy is always a good thing.

 

Although no amount of consumer protection is going to stop people from buying stupid crap in cash shops unfortunately.

 

No, and a consumer rights organization could also not deny a gamecompany to use a cashshop. It can't be considered an illegal thing to have a cashshop, some players might even prefer it.

But a gamers org. could force through a ban on cashshops, if that was desired. By boycotting a game.

 

...however, I have to admit I don't know how a gamers union would find out if their members broke a boycott though...

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5672

1/26/14 3:31:02 PM#7
How often have a majority of gamers on this very site ever agreed to anything? Good luck with that. I know I wouldn't join something like that.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2447

1/26/14 3:31:22 PM#8
Gamer's Union?  Good joke!  
  Dauntis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 439

1/26/14 3:31:41 PM#9
What would be the real purpose? I mean obviously some people must love these sort of cash siphoning "free" games. Someone is buying from them and keeps buying enough to make it worthwhile for them. The easier thing is just to avoid these games, let those fellow gamers who enjoy them to keep bleeding from their wallets and move on.

I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 844

1/26/14 3:34:22 PM#10
Gamers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your gear!

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1164

1/26/14 3:34:56 PM#11

You can always try to get an organization together to boycott a game. Such things have not been very successful in the past though:

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/7/77014/1625794-mw2lol.jpg

 

 

You can get governments or courts to try to make certain things illegal in your country, although you need a reason for that (beyond just it's a stupid waste of money).

 

Unions work by threatening the witholding of labor. Since you are not actually working and getting paid when playing a game a union wouldn't work at all.

 

  cnutemp

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/12
Posts: 229

1/26/14 3:35:53 PM#12
Originally posted by Diodem

 it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

 

So to sum things up

Rich people dropping 200,000 on a lambo or 1.5 mil on a home is good

Rich people dropping 500 for a housing slot in SOTA is bad (and also a dangerous risky purchase, unlike a safe 100+ grand sports car purchase.)

 

 

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:37:15 PM#13
Originally posted by Fearum

No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

 

I don't use cashshops myself, but there aren't alot of games it seems that doesn't have a cashshop at all.

And were i used to get access to everything for the ordinary 15 bucks a month, I now have to pay additional money if I want access to everything, because there's no way of getting it through the gameplay alone.

So it does affect gamers that doesn't want to use cashshops as well.

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:42:16 PM#14
Originally posted by iridescence

You can always try to get an organization together to boycott a game. Such things have not been very successful in the past though:

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/7/77014/1625794-mw2lol.jpg

 

 

You can get governments or courts to try to make certain things illegal in your country, although you need a reason for that (beyond just it's a stupid waste of money).

 

Unions work by threatening the witholding of labor. Since you are not actually working and getting paid when playing a game a union wouldn't work at all.

 

Players can hold back money, even f2p players can reduce the amount of people on a server which makes it harder to get teams for grouping.

The EvE community, I don't know if they were organized, but it seemed to have worked out for them?

  Gaendric

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/04
Posts: 279

1/26/14 3:43:30 PM#15

I don't think that cash shop prices for certain items is the biggest worry. 

At least those prices are out in the open, as ridiculous as some may seem. 

The really bad stuff happens on other levels and mostly ingame (and often has to do with detaching the fact that you are actually spending money from your conscious thinking).  Coercive monetization methods etc.

That's where some companies are really dancing on the line between ethical and unethical business.

 

The mind projection fallacy is the assumption that our subjective judgments (or lack thereof) reflect intrinsic qualities of objects or reality in general.

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:43:53 PM#16
Originally posted by cnutemp
Originally posted by Diodem

 it's just a game and you don't spend more money on a virtual item than on a real life similar item.

 

So to sum things up

Rich people dropping 200,000 on a lambo or 1.5 mil on a home is good

Rich people dropping 500 for a housing slot in SOTA is bad (and also a dangerous risky purchase, unlike a safe 100+ grand sports car purchase.)

 

 

i don't think any housing in a game will cost as much as a real-life house, but who knows.

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

 
OP  1/26/14 3:48:11 PM#17
Originally posted by Gaendric

I don't think that cash shop prices for certain items is the biggest worry. 

At least those prices are out in the open, as ridiculous as some may seem. 

The really bad stuff happens on other levels and mostly ingame (and often has to do with detaching the fact that you are actually spending money from your conscious thinking).  Coercive monetization methods etc.

That's where some companies are really dancing on the line between ethical and unethical business.

 

Yea that's interesting, because I think you can end up spending more on some mmorpg purchase by using somekind of gamecompany currency, like Turbine points in LotrO.

You buy those currencies in bulk, so you don't get the exact amount that you would when buying with real-life money. But it is in fact spending real-life money.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10573

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/26/14 3:53:34 PM#18

This is a ridiculous idea.  Publishers are not going to give people incentives in games when the goal of the union is for players to spend less money.  Second, the union already exists.  People buy what they want and avoid what they don't want.  If they are buying things, it's because they want it.  Being part of a gamer union isn't going to change that.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

1/26/14 4:00:14 PM#19
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by Fearum

No I wouldn't join. I choose to not even download these garbage cash shop based games to not even support them with signing up for the trash. I could careless what other people do with their money, if they are too stupid to see they are being ripped off they deserve it.

 

I don't use cashshops myself, but there aren't alot of games it seems that doesn't have a cashshop at all.

And were i used to get access to everything for the ordinary 15 bucks a month, I now have to pay additional money if I want access to everything, because there's no way of getting it through the gameplay alone.

So it does affect gamers that doesn't want to use cashshops as well.

No it doesn't affect players like me, I said I choose not to play them. If you are going to play them, you are supporting them. If you don't like what they are doing the only way to not support them is to not play them.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

1/26/14 4:02:30 PM#20

CCP handles pricing the way they do because CCP is literally dependent on it's players. It's the other extreme publishers have to be weary of, which SOE badly handled in trying to fix: a publisher can't be held hostage on design/marketing decisions by it's player base (listen to player needs/wants and take suggestions, yes. But not to be held hostage by ransoms that's aimed to DESTROY the game) . It's so bad with CCP these days they're literally walking on egg shells to not have another player riot. The players in return act every bit the jailer too (make a game that real life thugs can do what they please, don't cry when real life thugs poop on your doorstep).

 

Problem with player unions per se is the special interest pushes each would defend/advocate. This is what causes really ugly interactions between publishers and players. Loss of creative control from publishers is not fun, it's morale busting, too. That in turn makes the devs turn on the players. The result is a piss poor game with camps pitting against each other and the publisher. This already occurs without unions, too.

 

What Blizzard is doing with asking about pricing for instant level 90s is a fair route in how to get feedback on pricing that's comfortable with players. Pricing for other items will depend on the demand and interest (and Blizzard will have to branch out of pets and mounts, as the nth of both isn't exciting anymore as our pet/mount book is overfilled). Blizzard knows players like those past tier sets and weapons, and higher poly versions that bank on nostalgia, would be an excellent means to cash in and players get something they'll actually use (and not get buried in a book, to be forgotten -- don't go the Farmville/2 route!).

 

If player unions have the best interests at heart it maybe okay. But from past experience from knowing what SOE and CCP has done, I doubt I can trust them to truly represent player interests (the publishers will infiltrate them and put in their hacks and trolls as union breakers and scabs).

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