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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » PVE players emotional attachment to their characters.

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76 posts found
  osc8r

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 701

1/22/14 9:00:20 PM#61

PVP used to be great in MMO's, when we weren't fighting rivals for leveling spots, dungeons or towns i used to spend my time around starting area's helping noobs with advice and gear, whilst protecting them from RPK's.

Nowadays PVP in MMO's is nothing more but a grind for points in tiny instances, and is usually dominated by players who have just grinded PVE for better equipment than everyone else.

And as for PVE... lol. I just maxed out in neverwinter and only died twice in PVE, but sadly both times was due to me falling off the map. Has AI improved at all in recent times?

/yawn

I used to be able to turn to PVP for challenge and excitement but it seems they have managed to kill that off too.

Oh well, there's always dota 2 until they decide to take the training wheels back off.

 

  maccarthur2004

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 404

1/22/14 9:39:03 PM#62
Originally posted by haplo602

I don't like PvP. I am not good at it. I like PvE because I can go about a set of predictable and REPEATABLE opponents to try out different things (gear, skills, tactics) until perfection for a given encounter. You simply don't get that with PvP.

 

 

This is the first time i see a PVEr being sincere about why he dislikes pvp. :D

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3645

1/22/14 9:49:18 PM#63
Originally posted by osc8r

PVP used to be great in MMO's, when we weren't fighting rivals for leveling spots, dungeons or towns i used to spend my time around starting area's helping noobs with advice and gear, whilst protecting them from RPK's.

Nowadays PVP in MMO's is nothing more but a grind for points in tiny instances, and is usually dominated by players who have just grinded PVE for better equipment than everyone else.

And as for PVP... lol. I just maxed out in neverwinter and only died twice in PVE, but sadly both times was due to me falling off the map.

/yawn

I used to be able to turn to PVP for challenge and excitement but it seems they have managed to kill that off too.

Oh well, there's always dota 2 until they decide to take the training wheels back off.

 

I never thought pvp in mmos was good compared to FPS/RTS games. It was always less about skill and more about advantages

I don't think it will ever go back to even what it was. If anything suffers from easy mode in an mmo it's pvp. 

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  osc8r

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 701

1/22/14 10:04:38 PM#64
Originally posted by DamonVile

I never thought pvp in mmos was good compared to FPS/RTS games. It was always less about skill and more about advantages

I don't think it will ever go back to even what it was. If anything suffers from easy mode in an mmo it's pvp. 

I thought it used to be... AC1 used to take a lot of skill (a level 40 for ex could take on multiple level 60's+ and win), and town raids took a LOT of planning and tactics.

But sadly, that's long gone.

FPS games have gone the same way tbh. Level and gear unlocks/grinds to give you another advantage over others.. and RTS game are few and far between... let alone decent ones.

I think PVE and PVP are both easymode in MMO's these days. PVE raids are all about learning the correct tactic (assuming there is one to begin with) and PVP is usually just a matter a gear, class or level advantage... or simply bring your pre-made to a pug match and stomp.

  MamasGun

Elite Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 138

"The man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all." -E. Badu

1/22/14 10:40:33 PM#65
Originally posted by Abuz0r

I never understood why some people play PVE all the time...

...Anyway, are you 1 of these people?  Can you justify it for me so I understand?  Do you want to duel? :D

Very, very interesting post. By trying to "justify it to you so that you understand", I have to think you really do want to understand.  But, it's not really rocket science, nor should it be treated that way.  So I am led to believe, based on the wording in your post, that not only are you not willing to understand why some people are like this, you're also sort of mocking them for not wanting to duel you.

I main PvE.  Why?  Because most people that PvP are just... not the type of people i want to associate with.  In real life, or in a video game

I really only play games that I can get to actually care about my character for.  Not as much as how you put it, where I need to "have a funeral before ever respawn".  But, if I don't care about my character (can't change their appearance, can't build them how I want, etc. etc.), chances are, I won't stick around too long.

Some people play games to get away from the bullsnit that goes on in society.  Some of those games are MMO's, because of frequent content updates and being able to go and come back on a whim (as long as the game is still alive) without feeling like they are constantly restarting the game, like if you were playing a Single Player Offline game (like Saints Row, Fallout, Mass Effect, etc).

Not only that, but some people that just PvP are jerks.  Plain and simple.  Not all of them, mind you, but from my experience, a sickingly vast majority of them.  If I want PvP, I'll load up Smite.  If I want to play a game without the stress of competition or douchbaginess, I play games that have PvE in them.

In the end, to each his own I don't think anyone should have to justify to anyone why they do what they do, as long as what they do doesn't harm animals or children.  There is nothing worse than dueling someone, beating them fair and square, and the person that lost saying, "I didn't have so and so equipped.  Duel me again!", or spamming the re-duel button because their ego wasn't stroked properly.

Also, there are plenty of guilds in EVERY MMO that are strictly PvE or strictly PvP.  So, I'm sure you can find a whole lotta people, in any MMO, that will be willing to PvP you, if that's how you choose to play it. 

What I don't understand is why you can't understand why some people just prefer to PvE.  It's really simple- just think about it.  Slowly, if need be.

TL;DR: Some people just want to play without the need of a competitive nature.  For some people, it really is about the community/experience, not the "I won X-amount duels" aspect of the MMO.

 

Loves: SMITE, WildStar, PSO2, DCUO

Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ(CampBears), SMITE/LoL/DOTA(BM'ers), EVE Online(Soul-less), APB(Hackers)

"I've had a lot of people talking at me the last few days. Everyone just lining up to tell me how unimportant I am. And I've finally figured out why: Power. I have it, they don't. This bothers them."- Buffy Summers

  MamasGun

Elite Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 138

"The man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all." -E. Badu

1/22/14 11:06:58 PM#66
Originally posted by Theodwulf

I am a PvPing Care bear and I love to PvP but my friends do not, they hate it. It's because of the 'typical" PvPer on an MMORPG.

They hate that most PvPers don't give their characters names, but dorky handles, like.. I don't know... n00bslaya or.... maybe Abuz0r.  That they want to duel everyone they perceive weaker than them, as any internet tough guy/bully type would do. That they are hyper competitive, poor losers and even worse winners. The type of people attracted to PvP in a MMORPG  tend to be the vermin  of the Web, craving to be the big fish in the small pond. If people don't like you, ask yourself, AM I likable?

 

So , in closing, it's not them it's you. Modifying your behavior will modify your results.

 

^SOOOOO good, it really does bear repeating.^

Loves: SMITE, WildStar, PSO2, DCUO

Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ(CampBears), SMITE/LoL/DOTA(BM'ers), EVE Online(Soul-less), APB(Hackers)

"I've had a lot of people talking at me the last few days. Everyone just lining up to tell me how unimportant I am. And I've finally figured out why: Power. I have it, they don't. This bothers them."- Buffy Summers

  Noleader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 6

1/22/14 11:13:21 PM#67

I love PvP more so then PvE.  To me PvE is just a chance to learn how the class plays and gear up so I can get to PvP.  That being said I blame PvPers for the slow decline of classes in MMOs today.  The first game I played was DAoC...  When you got attacked by someone you HAD to know their class in an instance to know how to properly counter them, and in some cases when to just /sit and let them kill you.

If any cloth caster caught you at range you could hang it up.  You had one of two choices: Die or try to run out of their range.  Changing them form max to mid range was suicide.   This was balanced by the fact a caster which got caught in melee range was useless.  They could not cast a spell or do anything but die (Quick Cast, 7 second CD excluded).

Assassins could kill almost anyone in melee range within a few hits save for tanks and well played Melee DPSers.  There was no reason to have a stun lock combo (though stunning was still used) because few could eat the damage they put out if all their styles landed properly.

Melee DPS could produce some of the highest DPS numbers in the game but could do little if they did not have the support staff there to help them close the range.

I bring all this up to make a simple point.  Back then the PvPers spent countless hours complaining about how they were not a one person wreaking ball and that it was not fair.  Melee complained about casters killing them without 'even getting half way to them before dying.'  Casters complained it was not fun to have their spells perma interrupted when they got caught in melee range.  All the while everyone complained about assassins because they only remembered the times they got ganked and not the times they caught the assassin out of stealth and ruined them.

The result of all that complaining was developers trying to keep everyone happy all of the time and classes they really no longer shine at anything because everyone needs to do everything or it is Unfair.  I spent most of my WoW time in PvP and I can tell you it mattered little who attacked me on whatever class I played... it didn't really fundamentally affect my response.  Mage at range... no problem.  Warrior hitting you with MS... no biggy.   It was the same buttons over and over again because the class you face did not matter... just the numbers they put out.

The sad part in all this is that PvPers did not just ruin classes for themselves... they ruined them for PvEers as well and then ask questions like the OP.  Gone are the days of true skilled gameplay; now every class has a hammer and the only thing developers do is make sure all their numbers are about equal.  There are no true intrinsic strengths to classes that the developers don't pre-program into the encounters they face.  All because of the PvPers who wanted it all.

TLDR: Most PvPers suck and we, as PvPers, are to blame for the hate heaped on us by the MMO community at large.

  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 430

1/22/14 11:44:12 PM#68

If I wanted to bunny-hop & bounce around like a coked up wallaby, I'd... well, honestly I was going to make a CoD joke, but realized that phrase also sums up Guild Wars 2's PvE almost perfectly, hah.

Until developers learn to make changes to PvE and PvP independently in their games however, I will oppose any sort of serious MMO PvP. PvP whiners have caused companies to ruin the balance of PvE in these games for a long time.

Hell, just look at FFXIV. Square introduced PvP under pressure as a side activity, and the amount of whining about balance from the PvP crowd is insane. They want sweeping changes in the name of 'balance', all while not giving one single crap about how they would effect PvE balance.

It's a split between the idiotic companies and whiny players really. One would not be a problem without the other.

Today's message is brought to you by Travel Syria. Come for the jihad, stay for the sarin gas!

  Banquetto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1017

1/23/14 4:36:08 AM#69
I enjoy both PvE and PvP.

But reading the O.P. in this thread, it's REALLY easy to understand why some people want absolutely nothing to do with PvP'ers. Wow, what an asshole.
  free2play

Elite Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1736

1/23/14 5:40:29 AM#70

Why people don't care for PvP?

 

It all started 30 years ago. You could play FF3 on the SNES and you used the number 1 controller but if you played Mortal combat with a friend, you wanted the number 2 controller because you knew it wasn't being used as much and it was tighter. It mattered too. The guy who got the mushy controller lost more often than not because the buttons didn't respond as well.

Fast Forward 30 years, I have 6 MB/S you have 14 MB/S. Who is going to win MMO PvP?

 

As for character affinity. It's hobby gaming. You develop your character, you get attached to it. You build a garden, you are proud of it. You make a stamp collection, you are proud of it. You build an online character? You are proud of it. As for death and death penalty.  It's not about penalty. You fight a mob and it beats you, it will continue to do so. Your build is wrong or your class is wrong. You didn't pull that class or build out of your ass on a fly. It took time and the game is saying to chuck it out the window. I hate "losing" because so many MMO's are idiot about inventory so making builds for each mob is a gear grind nightmare with no place to put it all. It's logistics.

 

Losing in PvP is again a matter of knowing it's pure Min/Max to the point of MB/S epeen and knowing you are cattle if you try more than once. You would enjoy PvP more if there was an unlimited number of ATK, cows to farm? I don't. Not only do I not really enjoy losing over and over to conditions I can't control, I really don't enjoy winning when I know my opponent is in a latency war he can't win. It's boring.

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 649

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

1/23/14 11:54:55 AM#71

When ever I take hiatus from the forums the interesting -or at least better put then previous versions of them- topics inevitably come along, it seems.

 

I only got as far as page 3. But, it was a good enough read - even if only that far in- that I do intend to get through the rest of it. I have gone ahead and mapped out what I think about this subject in order to express my self a bit more clearly than if I were to have typed it all out:

 

[Note: If you find it hard to read, you should be able to right click it and click "view image" from the drop down selection in order to see it's full size resolution.]

 

Now, this is intended to show what I think about the player types that there are (in regards to PvP vs. PVE). And, how they tend to distance from one another based on the degree (or one could say severity) of their treatment of a game. What this does not get at, is the nature of that separation (weather it is unintentional disassociation, or purposeful malice...Though it does touch possible motivations for preference and distancing). As, that likely depends on personality and learned behavior factors that may often be completely unassociated with their play preference (though not likely uninfluenced by it). It's where I view them being in position as apposed to directive.

 

That said I think the more severe end of the tree lends itself to being more predictable in how the two groups would likely treat each other. I lean towards thinking from my own experience, that most players rest somewhere closer to the top of the tree. And, that more experienced players tend to have gone down either branch (to whatever extant) at one time or another. And, for that wind up having a more neutral perspective on the matter and their treatment of others based on their preference.

"Quality is not an act, it is a habit."
- Aristotle.

  Grixxitt

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 526

1/23/14 12:17:37 PM#72

Not sure why the OP even brings up an encounter in WoW in regard to a PvE vs PvP dichotomy. 

- WoW is like the Special Olympics in terms of PvP in an MMO, or any skill-based game for that matter

 

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 649

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

1/23/14 12:50:53 PM#73
Originally posted by Grixxitt

Not sure why the OP even brings up an encounter in WoW in regard to a PvE vs PvP dichotomy. 

- WoW is like the Special Olympics in terms of PvP in an MMO, or any skill-based game for that matter

 

I think you may have just insulted the Special Olympics, lol.

When new players to Runescape used to complain about difficulty. We would tell them to go play WoW. That maybe it was more their 'speed'.

"Quality is not an act, it is a habit."
- Aristotle.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 242

1/23/14 1:09:53 PM#74

What I think the TC is actually explaining is a newish condition some gamer's get while playing video games. (I say newish because its getting actually diagnosed as a disease)  The people that are freaking out when they die in a game are freaking out because they see themselves as that character.  They play the game as they are that character, and the thought of killing another 'player' in the same respects to how they view a character is similar to that of killing someone in real life.

 

As its easily seen from the posters that responded, there seem to be a few people with this perspective in this very post.  Its a matter of a player taking a game a little bit too seriously, and can be used as an escape, were their video game character is more them selves than the person is in real life.

 

  Tara_Windwalker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 60

1/23/14 1:11:34 PM#75
well said
  Tara_Windwalker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 60

1/23/14 1:12:22 PM#76
Originally posted by GwapoJosh
How the hell is it so hard to understand that some people don't like pvp?  Some people like apples and some don't.  This world would be extremely boring if everyone liked the same things.

well said

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