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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Why Do Players Leave MMOs?

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161 posts found
  adino32

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/07/05
Posts: 25

1/21/14 2:26:00 PM#41
Originally posted by Unrivaled1

This is very hard to answer. as I do not generally know exactly why a particular game doesn't do it for me.

I think the last time I was truly happy in an MMO was SWG before the big changes. Before that I played DAoC quite a bit. And of course I played plenty of WoW but I cannot say I was happy and content doing it.

For me.. I don't care about endgame. Hell, I don't always get a character to max level. What matters most to me is pitting myself against other players. And not necessarily in PvP. I want to attain goals and awards faster than the other guy.

And the problem in today's games with doing that is beta-testing. The game is released and there are hundreds with carnal knowledge of the game that I lack and who will easily outpace me in all aspects of the game. So, why should I play when the field isn't level for all?

I understand the reason for beta-testing and acknowledge that we get a better game at release because of it. Nevertheless, that is my number one reason for walking away from a game. It's completely unfair to me at launch.

This is kind of what I was talking about.  I am sorry if my assumptions are false, no harm intended, but you are probably late 30s?  Probably have a full time job, most likely married.

Honestly, if there was no beta or they put you in beta and you had an even playing field (just hypothetically) would you really be able to compete with these guys who play the game from minute zero continuously for days at a time with nearly no sleep and eating junk food all day long?  You have changed.  You are trying to get that feeling you had when you played DAoC but you have changed.  If you got it (and you probably did) you might not even want it or recognize it because you are so much older and your motivations in life are so different.  DAoC was what... 20 years ago?  Think about it, are you the same person you were 20 years ago?  Is your taste in music the same?  Are your interests the same?

  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

1/21/14 2:30:06 PM#42

adino32 i hear that point a lot about we only remember the good points. So i tried the eq1999 free server for a bit to see. I joined with a group of friends for a blast from the past planning to stay for a week or so. We all ended up playing for months and absolutely loved it again. How so haha?

Well it had challenge and depth, no group finders so people had to actually comunicate, remember years ago when if you want to speak to a mate you had to knock on the door? W ealso loved the fact that we couldnt just run blindly into a fight without worrying about losing our stuff or facing a long corpse run... remember that guy in the pub with all his mates that you wish you would have smacked, but really knew you would get your head kicked in. then there was the fact that we soon forgot about levelling as it wasnt so important. it was more important to explore what felt like a huge living world. every now and again we would hear this "ding" and it would be a momentuous occasion!

Wedont all wear those rose tinted glasses and some of still want to play a risk v reward game with no fast travel and instances where we all get the same loot as a reward and all look and feel the same.

How many people play WOW and play 90% content rather than sit in a city and dugeon hop while never speaking?

How many people play SWOR and actually complete all available quests while they are yellow rather than just constantly queue for battlegrounds?

these are the reasons i usually leave a game while i would prefer to go back to the old style. Walking and exploring a world that feels full of adventure and risk. focus is not on levelling but just playing in a world where i can have seperation from my usual day to day life.

  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

1/21/14 2:34:37 PM#43
Originally posted by adino32
Originally posted by Unrivaled1

This is very hard to answer. as I do not generally know exactly why a particular game doesn't do it for me.

I think the last time I was truly happy in an MMO was SWG before the big changes. Before that I played DAoC quite a bit. And of course I played plenty of WoW but I cannot say I was happy and content doing it.

For me.. I don't care about endgame. Hell, I don't always get a character to max level. What matters most to me is pitting myself against other players. And not necessarily in PvP. I want to attain goals and awards faster than the other guy.

And the problem in today's games with doing that is beta-testing. The game is released and there are hundreds with carnal knowledge of the game that I lack and who will easily outpace me in all aspects of the game. So, why should I play when the field isn't level for all?

I understand the reason for beta-testing and acknowledge that we get a better game at release because of it. Nevertheless, that is my number one reason for walking away from a game. It's completely unfair to me at launch.

This is kind of what I was talking about.  I am sorry if my assumptions are false, no harm intended, but you are probably late 30s?  Probably have a full time job, most likely married.

Honestly, if there was no beta or they put you in beta and you had an even playing field (just hypothetically) would you really be able to compete with these guys who play the game from minute zero continuously for days at a time with nearly no sleep and eating junk food all day long?  You have changed.  You are trying to get that feeling you had when you played DAoC but you have changed.  If you got it (and you probably did) you might not even want it or recognize it because you are so much older and your motivations in life are so different.  DAoC was what... 20 years ago?  Think about it, are you the same person you were 20 years ago?  Is your taste in music the same?  Are your interests the same?

40 here, ye sad i know haha!

Still love U2 after all these years,

Still try to play football and love it just as much, if not more,

Oh my god i know they are so bad for me but i still love a Doner Kebab haha!

But i do get your point. we are different people and not only we have changed but also our spare time has changed dramatically.

  alakram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2239

1/21/14 2:34:45 PM#44

Small worlds.

No housing.

No mounts.

Restricted class progression.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  Horusra

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2205

1/21/14 2:36:36 PM#45
Most people I know that appear to be just sitting around queing are in guild chat talking while waiting.
  Unrivaled1

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 30

1/21/14 2:38:07 PM#46
Originally posted by adino32
Originally posted by Unrivaled1

This is very hard to answer. as I do not generally know exactly why a particular game doesn't do it for me.

I think the last time I was truly happy in an MMO was SWG before the big changes. Before that I played DAoC quite a bit. And of course I played plenty of WoW but I cannot say I was happy and content doing it.

For me.. I don't care about endgame. Hell, I don't always get a character to max level. What matters most to me is pitting myself against other players. And not necessarily in PvP. I want to attain goals and awards faster than the other guy.

And the problem in today's games with doing that is beta-testing. The game is released and there are hundreds with carnal knowledge of the game that I lack and who will easily outpace me in all aspects of the game. So, why should I play when the field isn't level for all?

I understand the reason for beta-testing and acknowledge that we get a better game at release because of it. Nevertheless, that is my number one reason for walking away from a game. It's completely unfair to me at launch.

This is kind of what I was talking about.  I am sorry if my assumptions are false, no harm intended, but you are probably late 30s?  Probably have a full time job, most likely married.

Honestly, if there was no beta or they put you in beta and you had an even playing field (just hypothetically) would you really be able to compete with these guys who play the game from minute zero continuously for days at a time with nearly no sleep and eating junk food all day long?  You have changed.  You are trying to get that feeling you had when you played DAoC but you have changed.  If you got it (and you probably did) you might not even want it or recognize it because you are so much older and your motivations in life are so different.  DAoC was what... 20 years ago?  Think about it, are you the same person you were 20 years ago?  Is your taste in music the same?  Are your interests the same?

 
You're correct on many points (DAoC was only 10 years ago). The OP was about why we leave MMOs though. And while I've come to accept that I'll never feel the same way while playing a new MMO that I did while playing SWG, I still maintain what drives me away is a palpable lack of non-PvP competition in today's games.
 
So what then is my dream game? I would love to see something like Civilization made into an MMO, but from the perspective of the "citizen". Build your own nation (Guild) or be a citizen of someone else's. Now, THAT has potential for non-PvP competition all over the place. And when nations go to war would have plenty to do to keep their interest. And for endgame? When one nation conquers all others, close the shard, post their names to a Hall of Fame and open a fresh shard. Since the shard starts in a "prehistoric" era and you need to learn and build to advance, there is plenty of in-between content to keep everyone busy.
  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

1/21/14 2:39:25 PM#47
Originally posted by Horusra
Most people I know that appear to be just sitting around queing are in guild chat talking while waiting.

exactly my point friend. Its more interesting in games today to sit and chat while waiting for a dungeon finder or PVP battleground than it is to actually go and play the game.

  Horusra

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2205

1/21/14 2:42:31 PM#48
Depends on what you deem fun. You seem to want to force "fun" on people.
  jakin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 237

1/21/14 2:45:30 PM#49

This is one of those "things" about MMO development that completely mystifies me.

 

Obviously developers and publishers care about why a given player decides to throw in the towel, but why is it that virtually all MMOs wait until that point to ask the player what they are thinking?

 

I'm hard-pressed to think of another product type where there is a capability for nearly 100% capture on a given survey question (every MMO uses a log-in launcher of some sort - put a question there and everyone who plays will have to answer it) and yet the only time I've ever seen a survey is when I'm already out the door.

 

Sure, sometimes there might be one event that triggers the decision to stop playing, but more often it's the death of a thousand cuts.  Friends quit, game gets grindy, systems change, balance gets messed up - all these things contribute to the decision to leave but by the time the leaving actually happens the reason is usually "I'm done with the game", and all of that fine-grained stuff is lost in the generalization.

 

Moreover, what is to be done with the rise of Subscription-less or Freemium games.  Virtually no one actually "quits", they just drift away.  I haven't played Guild Wars 2 in months, but my account is still there - how would ArenaNet capture that information from me? 

 

It would seem to me that it would make the most sense for Developers to start working on an unobtrusive (i.e. no 100 question surveys) but meaningful way of leveraging the fact that they have a virtually captive audience they can poll whenever they want, while that audience is still mostly satisfied with their product.  Forums are selection biased and in-game metrics are both limited and must be carefully evaluated to get the right message from the data.  Opinion surveys could be a valuable addition (which other product fields would kill for) that for some reason goes unused.

  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

1/21/14 2:47:56 PM#50
Originally posted by Horusra
Depends on what you deem fun. You seem to want to force "fun" on people.

i do yes! i want the whole world to have fun. They can choose what that fun is but i still want to make the whole world have fun :)

Seriously though, no not really. I am just commenting on what i like and dislike in MMO's, not what others like or dislike. In no way would i try to force it on others. Unless i thought i could be succesful!

But you make a great point with a simple sentance and this is why there needs to be a wid erange of MMO's to choose from.

  adino32

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/07/05
Posts: 25

1/21/14 2:58:27 PM#51

40 here, ye sad i know haha!

Still love U2 after all these years,

Still try to play football and love it just as much, if not more,

Oh my god i know they are so bad for me but i still love a Doner Kebab haha!

But i do get your point. we are different people and not only we have changed but also our spare time has changed dramatically.

Well U2 yeah they are timeless.  If I tried to play football now I would be carted off during warmups.

I think a lot of us refuse to believe we are different and that the devs are just not getting it.  My friend still plays EQ1.  The game is vastly different from what I played but when I saw him playing it (He only logs on to chat with friends) I was stunned at how poor it is compared to what we got now.

I think the publishers want a game that can encompass 1st gen to current gen players and they spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying and they make a great attempt but it just not going to happen.  Games like Darkfall I think have the right idea.  make a game that you know has a solid core of niche players and milk it and repeat.

  YakCast

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 60

"Get the poison out!"

1/21/14 3:01:46 PM#52
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

I can answer this for most.

 

If they leave early it's because the game was really low quality or just not their cup of tea, usually the former(DFOUW, Wizardry, Warhammer, the first FFXIV, etc)

 

If they leave at max level it's because the endgame is shallow and/or nonexistant.

 

Every MMO since WoW has made one of these two mistakes.

 

Agreed! There hasn't been an MMO with something new to offer in years. After a while you have played them all.

Yak Cast | MMO Podcast: http://www.yak.mmoSmackTalk.com
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  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

1/21/14 3:03:51 PM#53
Originally posted by adino32

40 here, ye sad i know haha!

Still love U2 after all these years,

Still try to play football and love it just as much, if not more,

Oh my god i know they are so bad for me but i still love a Doner Kebab haha!

But i do get your point. we are different people and not only we have changed but also our spare time has changed dramatically.

Well U2 yeah they are timeless.  If I tried to play football now I would be carted off during warmups.

I think a lot of us refuse to believe we are different and that the devs are just not getting it.  My friend still plays EQ1.  The game is vastly different from what I played but when I saw him playing it (He only logs on to chat with friends) I was stunned at how poor it is compared to what we got now.

I think the publishers want a game that can encompass 1st gen to current gen players and they spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying and they make a great attempt but it just not going to happen.  Games like Darkfall I think have the right idea.  make a game that you know has a solid core of niche players and milk it and repeat.

Totally agree. I hope that a few developers have the balls to make a solid game that will attract and hold a niche market.

I am one of those niche players. damn i am not even playing a game at the moment and have been searching the last few days and wandering if i should download EQ again, but then hold out because i know its all changed so much now.

bring on the next round i suppose and ill try again.

  adino32

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/07/05
Posts: 25

1/21/14 3:06:15 PM#54
Originally posted by Telil

adino32 i hear that point a lot about we only remember the good points. So i tried the eq1999 free server for a bit to see. I joined with a group of friends for a blast from the past planning to stay for a week or so. We all ended up playing for months and absolutely loved it again. How so haha?

Well it had challenge and depth, no group finders so people had to actually comunicate, remember years ago when if you want to speak to a mate you had to knock on the door? W ealso loved the fact that we couldnt just run blindly into a fight without worrying about losing our stuff or facing a long corpse run... remember that guy in the pub with all his mates that you wish you would have smacked, but really knew you would get your head kicked in. then there was the fact that we soon forgot about levelling as it wasnt so important. it was more important to explore what felt like a huge living world. every now and again we would hear this "ding" and it would be a momentuous occasion!

Wedont all wear those rose tinted glasses and some of still want to play a risk v reward game with no fast travel and instances where we all get the same loot as a reward and all look and feel the same.

How many people play WOW and play 90% content rather than sit in a city and dugeon hop while never speaking?

How many people play SWOR and actually complete all available quests while they are yellow rather than just constantly queue for battlegrounds?

these are the reasons i usually leave a game while i would prefer to go back to the old style. Walking and exploring a world that feels full of adventure and risk. focus is not on levelling but just playing in a world where i can have seperation from my usual day to day life.

Well I think the variable here is the community.  You had a set community.  I do remember those days.  All my "nerd" friends would call each and log on and go adventuring.  It was like playing DnD with graphics.  If I could get my friends to all log on, I would not mind playing Pong.  As it is we have trouble all getting together to chat on FB for a few minutes.  I think you miss your friends and no game is going to bring that back.

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 948

1/21/14 3:09:36 PM#55

Instead of saying why I leave BAD MMOs, I will talk about why I left good ones. So ,this post is for you Matt.

Meridian 59.

This was my first true MMORPG. It was more novelty for me than anything else. I was thinking, hey I am playing an RPG ONLINE WITH OTHER ACTUAL PEOPLE! WOW!

After a little more than of playing, I was basically just using it as a chat room with graphics and I did that for MONTHS! I think during the last 2-3 months of playing the game I may have only spent perhaps 4 or 5 hours actually doing anything in the game other than talking and it was worth the investment because I met a bunch of people and we were all talking about the same thing, Ultima Online and when it was coming out, and how we were going to play together. Needless to say, leaving the game was easy since it was just a chat room at that point.

Ultima Online.

Well, I went into this game knowing what it was going to be, an Ultima game with other players where you can kill or be killed at any time. This was the draw for me first and foremost because it felt like it should be that way after playing Ultima 8, dark and bloody. I stayed through the horrible horrible launch right up until they released the carebear expansion that change the base game. That is why I left. They made a game one way and completely changed it to something else.

Asherons Call 1

I played this game for 3 straight years, off and on for another 2. The reason this game held me for so long was the amount of things to do, it wasn't gated, free to do mostly anything, complete open world and felt NO need at all to level up as it wasn't end game based. It received monthly updates, many of them large and there was basically always something to do. And when I say something to do, I mean by choice. No daily quests or tasks. There reason for leaving was it was dated, received no expansions at that point that upgraded the graphics and over all systems........and my guild was leaving for other games, which was another good part of it though I would have stayed longer if it had more expansion support.

Star Wars Galaxies

I was with this game from launch right up until the CU and dropped it quick. I could probably still be playing this game today if it wasn't for their altering the base game by trying to make it more like WoW. Sandbox game, endless content, endlessly replayable.

Archeage

I have been playing the Japanese client for just over a year now(5 months of the closed beta included in that). I can say right now that I will be playing this until its released in the US, and then starting over again with it just so I can read the actual content lol. There are as many sandbox features as SWG had with so much more added on as to be expected with a newer game. I can see myself playing this for another 3-4 years even with Shroud of the Avatar on the top of my wanted list, I will play both, perhaps even with Landmark thrown in if the building options are good enough in that game.

Now, that is my list of "good" MMOs I have played. All the "bad" MMOs had the same thing in common with each other. They had GATED content leading to end game grind.

When you make a gated themepark game that is around 95% getting to end game, it makes 95% of the game WORTHLESS once you have done it. It limits the amount of things you can do as a player after a short amount of time and nothing drives me away from a game faster than a game that is leaving me with little to do, and having to do that little over and over and over again.

Want to hold me as a player? Create content that is dynamic, and doesn't lose its meaning. Hard to do with a themepark, especially one that is gear grind based.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4820

1/21/14 3:22:06 PM#56

I've always enjoyed the story and leveling characters. I'm pretty sick of raid/pvp or do dailies. I can be happy in just about any mmo while leveling a character because that type of progression always appeals to me. Logging in and "getting something accomplished " is the core of what I like to do in games.

Very few games even offer this type of game play once you reach max level. It's like it becomes a whole new game that is just a massive grindy time sink.

Every mmo I quit is because of end game. The very few exceptions I quit because I didn't like the game right away and didn't even make it to level 10 or the typical 50-60 levels.

GW2 is probably the only mmo I've ever played where I made it to 25ish twice and then quit. But it's a very different type of mmo....and not for me.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Cramit845

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/14
Posts: 167

1/21/14 3:30:09 PM#57

I agree with what most people said and I will sum it up as immersion factor.  Yes, I'm 33yro and I played UO, EQ, DAoC and AC and miss those days, but it's not because my free time has changed or that I have changed.  Although my free time has changed and I have changed but I am still missing those nights/days of sitting in a corner of Lake of Ill Omen farming in a full group.  Not doing anything other then pulling and killing and holding a conversation with my group mates at the time.

I even tested this as well when I recently went back to EQ1 for about 6 months- year playing on one of the f2p servers.  I had a blast to be honest.  It's still A LOT different then the 90's but the first 50 levels were just like old school.  There werent as many groups but there were still some to be had and I had a absolute blast playing it again.  What made me leave was once I was 80, in come the dailies grinding and then not enough people to actually do a full raid or the raids were so much easier.  It felt like the later levels were a return to wow with eq interface and graphics.

So many people here love to point out that times have changed and that those of us that started in the 90's and want a return to those types of games are fooling ourselves or need to stop crying about the state of the genre now.  First of all, the state of the genre is cause of us, the people from the 90's are the people that made this genre in the first place, so all of the children who have been playing these games for the past 10 years can thank us for supporting the first games to make this genre huge.  In the end, Wow was made for the EQ and DAoC players because we wanted something new and to a point something more intuitive/easier and it wasn't made for all the teens that hopped on after it was a huge hit.  

One can make a point that in this instance, the people that complain about what MMO's have turned into are because of themselves, at least in part.  At the time, at least everyone I know, had at one time said they wished the games were more intuitive and certain systems easier, so thats what WoW developers admittedly did.  They listened to the current communities of the time and made it easier and then proceeded to make it easier and easier so the children could compete.

 Personally, after all this ranting and raving, immersiveness I think is really the main reason for many people and definitely the reason for myself.  If I don't feel that the world is huge and living and I dont feel that I'm a part of it and can have an affect on it, then it doesnt matter how much content, rewards, or zones they put in, I'm gonna put it down.  Although the more of the content/rewards etc they put in, the longer my stay most likely will be, but I will never put in the years I did with DAoC or eq because the immersions not there.  In all honesty, Wow is the one MMO I spent the most time in and that was more because of the people rather than the game.  Once TBC was 6 months in, I was ready to quit but all my friends still played, so I stayed, just put in less time per day.

Anymore what keeps me in the games is the immersiveness and the people I'm playing with.  Like one gentleman said, I'm not in my 20's anymore and I don't have a 4 man group in my apartment any longer.  I live away from my gaming friends with a wife and son and I play with whoever is playing what I'm playing at the time.

I'm giving AoC a shot right now cause I always loved the Conan movies and never tried an "Adult" MMO, so far it's fun, time will tell if it has the staying power to keep me busy till a new mmo grabs me or maybe this will be my last hurrah, time will tell.  Not likely with games like Archage, EQ:N, Pantheon and some others I could mention.  

1.

  bbethel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/05
Posts: 178

1/21/14 3:39:37 PM#58

For me why i leave a MMo is because i have finished all the content in the 1st month. After i finish the content why should i pay for a game that has no more content.

Games like what a lot of people have brought up like DAOC or SWG all would take months or longer to get through all the content. If a new MMo comes out with content like that then i will be playing it more then just 1 or 2 months.

Again its all about having more then 1 month worth of content.

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1190

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

1/21/14 3:44:28 PM#59
I leave MMO's for a variety of reasons. Last one I left was for two, no interesting "end game" content and the game going so-called "f2p". The most common for me, no interesting end game content....which seems to be the case for 99.9% of the MMOs out there.

Let's party like it is 1863!

  Rusque

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1722

1/21/14 3:46:24 PM#60
My reason always boils down to the same thing: It starts to feel like a grind. As long as the grind is obscured by other interesting things (i.e. single player games like Dragon Age Origins, Witcher, Mass Effect are nothing but fedex and kill X quests that are cleverly designed to feel as if you're progressing through a story).
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