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Star Wars: The Old Republic

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348 posts found
  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/19/14 8:18:31 AM#321
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

"Best" is a worthless word, because it's completely subjective.  Ask ten different people what the best MMO they have ever played is, and there is a decent chance you get ten different answers.

As for your argument about the relationship between quality and a sub, we established a long time ago from the synthesis of your posts that the only game that could even theoretically be considered "good" would be WoW.  I think everybody gets that you are a big ole troll at this point.

but only one game has the best sales numbers

that is the product, that most people are willing , to spend their Cash on

this may be difficult for you , to accept, but there IS a connection between sales and quality

remember Aston martin lagonda? that car looks so cool

but it is a shitty car, so it didnt sell well, even with a big name

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/19/14 8:23:49 AM#322
Originally posted by bobdole1979
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

Then why did TF2 go F2P?

Why is WoW changing its business model? 

 

TF2 didnt deliver, apparantly

wow is getting old, and the market has shown signs of new times

blizzard is milking wow for more Cash, while they can, yes they get penalty points for that too

theyre still MILES above swtor, both in quality, AND in quantity

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/19/14 8:33:00 AM#323
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

if you want to win, copy the champion

if not, do something else

numbers tell the tale

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/19/14 8:39:36 AM#324
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 )  for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.

yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength

how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?

yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20

wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?

EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/19/14 9:00:22 PM#325
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

if you want to win, copy the champion

if not, do something else

numbers tell the tale

I'm taking a guess as what you're saying, so apologies if I've not interpreted things correctly. 

 

This only works if all the games are the same, and if all the customers for all the games are the same.  Even on this website there are people who prefer F2P systems over subscription systems.  If this were not the case, every person who could afford a subscription, and who wanted to play an MMORPG would be playing World of Warcraft.  This isn't the case though.  Player preferences extend to types of games, game subject matter, particular game mechanics and the monetization system used.  "[C]opy[ing] the champion" just isn't a viable model to address even a small portion of the many possible games that can be made or the many possible gamer preferences that exist.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/19/14 9:46:48 PM#326
Originally posted by simplius
 

but only one game has the best sales numbers

that is the product, that most people are willing , to spend their Cash on

this may be difficult for you , to accept, but there IS a connection between sales and quality

remember Aston martin lagonda? that car looks so cool

but it is a shitty car, so it didnt sell well, even with a big name

This may be difficult for you to accept, but when analyzing why one product manages to do something others don't, you have to look at all the differences.  What are the primary differences between WoW today and other games?  I'll give you a hint; the answer isn't quality.  Actually, I'll just tell you straight out; it's about two things, the extremely high number of subscribers WoW had when it peaked, and the amount of customer loyalty you can build when your game has been around for a decade.

There are lots of games that have just as much quality as WoW.  They just don't have ten years of history establishing a long term emotional connection with players.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  TerminalDeity

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/11/13
Posts: 95

1/19/14 10:07:07 PM#327

There are lots of games that have just as much quality as WoW.  They just don't have ten years of history establishing a long term emotional connection with players.

I have played a LOT of MMOs (easily ALL of the more popular ones), and NO game has ever approached the general level of quality that WoW has. You may not like it, but you cannot argue that it does not deliver an impeccably tight gameplay experience.

Again, it may not be the game for you (it isn't for me either), but nothing else even remotely comes close to the level of quality that it delivers.

  dinos_21

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 192

1/19/14 10:21:09 PM#328
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Don't be cheap. Pay some money to fund the game. Why are p2p gamers so cheap?  Spend $15 and unlock some stuff and then you don't have to pay it again. Or spend $15 a month and do a sub. Threads where people whine about money are really getting annoying.

you know? this makes kinda sense...pay for the sith, pay for the hotbar, pay for some other stuff lets say total 20-25$? cool but thats once and done! i think its better that paying every month 15$ . Dont get me wrong ii've been on both sides of the coin and i support both sub and non-sub games. But this here kinda makes sense to me

Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent

  Velocinox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 668

1/19/14 10:34:06 PM#329

Choices:

1) Purchase a subscription

2) Buy from the cash shop

3) Not play

 

Not sure how 30+ pages of discussion still hasn't come to this conclusion.

 

 

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

1/19/14 10:43:15 PM#330
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by bobdole1979
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

Then why did TF2 go F2P?

Why is WoW changing its business model? 

 

TF2 didnt deliver, apparantly

 

It made 139 million last year.

  bobdole1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/09
Posts: 218

1/20/14 6:16:52 AM#331
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 )  for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.

yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength

how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?

yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20

wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?

EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game

Yes WOW IS FREEMIUM

Up to level 20 the FREE part then $20 to get all the way up to level 90 with Mists of Pandarai Thats the premium part. 

 

THUS FREEMIUM

 

You didn't answer my question 

What about Star Citizen?  Its a game that is not going with a tradiational pay method.  You have said if a game is good enough it can make it. 

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2523

1/20/14 7:43:41 AM#332

The system is paying off apparently to the tune of 139 million in profits.

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  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

1/20/14 11:00:34 AM#333


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by bobdole1979

Originally posted by simplius i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken? and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
Then why did TF2 go F2P? Why is WoW changing its business model?   
TF2 didnt deliver, apparantly

wow is getting old, and the market has shown signs of new times

blizzard is milking wow for more Cash, while they can, yes they get penalty points for that too

theyre still MILES above swtor, both in quality, AND in quantity



TF2 was one of Valve's most popular game behind Counter-Strike before DOTA 2 came out. They were clever to turn TF2 into F2P, it rakes in MORE money.


World of Tanks has made a shit ton of money too.


  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

1/20/14 11:06:58 AM#334


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by simplius i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken? and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.  
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 )  for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength

how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?

yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20

wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?

EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game



To be quite blunt, I would have still been subbing to City of Heroes (and yes even buying something from their cash shop) if NCSoft hadn't shut it down, but NCSoft wanted to push existing players to Guild Wars 2.


  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/20/14 11:28:32 AM#335
Originally posted by TerminalDeity

I have played a LOT of MMOs (easily ALL of the more popular ones), and NO game has ever approached the general level of quality that WoW has. You may not like it, but you cannot argue that it does not deliver an impeccably tight gameplay experience.

Again, it may not be the game for you (it isn't for me either), but nothing else even remotely comes close to the level of quality that it delivers.

I just don't agree.  I find WoW consistently mediocre and boring.  Is it polished?  Yes, always has been.  But it's not polished gold, it's polished pyrite.  The only time I ever enjoyed it was back at the start of vanilla, when it was impressive not because it's quality was so high, but because it was being compared to other MMOs with such low quality.  I admit Alterac Valley was a thing of beauty.  But then they completed gutted it, throwing away the one thing they truly did well.  

Compared to single player RPGs, it has always been a substantially below average experience.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  alexhpy98721

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/10
Posts: 239

1/27/14 10:15:39 PM#336

While i have always been a subscriber - at launch and again now when i came back - i have many preferred players in my guild that are doing pretty much everything i do, from raiding to PvP.... and they play for free minus some initial cost for some upgrades.

I think its a good deal... and if you don`t like F2P because its greedy you can just pay the standard sub and have everything unlocked and if you want even more - like more GTN slots etc you can get it with the Cartel Coins they give you, 500 a month, or buy them from the GTN...

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/28/14 5:53:05 AM#337
Originally posted by bobdole1979
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 )  for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.

yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength

how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?

yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20

wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?

EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game

Yes WOW IS FREEMIUM

Up to level 20 the FREE part then $20 to get all the way up to level 90 with Mists of Pandarai Thats the premium part. 

 

THUS FREEMIUM

 

You didn't answer my question 

What about Star Citizen?  Its a game that is not going with a tradiational pay method.  You have said if a game is good enough it can make it. 

if you want to call wow a freemium game, go ahead

lvl 20 shouldnt take more , than a couple of days, at most

a 2 day freemium game...yup

star Citizen is a strange mixture, i dont know enough about it , to predict anything

except, that it will have a lot of competition

  bobdole1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/09
Posts: 218

1/29/14 1:29:01 AM#338
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by bobdole1979
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by simplius

i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model

they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?

and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs

people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product

I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game?  I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.

 

I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 )  for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.

yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength

how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?

yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20

wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?

EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game

Yes WOW IS FREEMIUM

Up to level 20 the FREE part then $20 to get all the way up to level 90 with Mists of Pandarai Thats the premium part. 

 

THUS FREEMIUM

 

You didn't answer my question 

What about Star Citizen?  Its a game that is not going with a tradiational pay method.  You have said if a game is good enough it can make it. 

if you want to call wow a freemium game, go ahead

lvl 20 shouldnt take more , than a couple of days, at most

a 2 day freemium game...yup

star Citizen is a strange mixture, i dont know enough about it , to predict anything

except, that it will have a lot of competition

you don't even understand what a Freemimum is do you?  It doesn't matter how long the free trial is.

 

Ok this I want to hear how will Star Citizen have a lot of competion?

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/30/14 5:19:48 AM#339

by your definition, almost EVERY game on the market would be freemium, then

star Citizen isnt the first mmo, and it isnt the first Space mmo , either

they wiill have to share the market with EVE, STO , star conflict, and the new ELITE

if that isnt a lot of competition, then what is?

and, the new swtor numbers say , just around 400k subs

very far from your claimed million, isnt it?

  bobdole1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/09
Posts: 218

1/30/14 9:23:24 AM#340
Originally posted by simplius

by your definition, almost EVERY game on the market would be freemium, then

star Citizen isnt the first mmo, and it isnt the first Space mmo , either

they wiill have to share the market with EVE, STO , star conflict, and the new ELITE

if that isnt a lot of competition, then what is?

and, the new swtor numbers say , just around 400k subs

very far from your claimed million, isnt it?

only games that have a sort of trial but yes those would be freemium.  HENCE THE TERM  FREE- allows you to try part of the product for FREE  and PREMIUM - if you want all of it you have to pay. 

There are many different ways to present your freemium model

 

facepalm.  You have no idea what Star Citizen is do you?

 

I never claimed SWTOR had 1 million subs.  

 

See this is where you fail at reading comprehension 

 

I SAID SWTOR HAS 1 MILLION ACTIVE PLAYERS making the second largest western MMO

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