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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A endgame content can't be no-repetitive without pvp

19 posts found
  maccarthur2004

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 508

 
OP  1/19/14 5:02:11 PM#1

So i think.

Anyone knows any manner to make a mmo's "endgame" content be no-repetitive (or no-previsible) without any kind of pvp?

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1355

1/19/14 5:08:36 PM#2

Artifical Intelligence that's capable of learning?

SWTOR is adding a Flashpoint(Dungeon) that randomises the combat scenarios within it. How random they are is yet to be seen. Something like that could prolong endgame.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 322

1/19/14 5:08:42 PM#3

Depending upon the game play I really do not mind content that is repetative as long as it is fun to do.  Personally, I'd like to see more games with absolutely no-PvP of any type in them or at least games that do not give PvP a centric role in the game.

Just my 2 copper.

Ratero.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 952

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

1/19/14 5:15:03 PM#4
I'm not really sure how to reply to this OP, because despite liking PvP, I can acknowledge that it too can become repetitive. I feel the best option for developers to offer an endgame that doesn't tire as quickly (because they all do at some point), is to create as many options for activities as possible for players who have reached the end of their character progression, which doesn't necessarily have to be the end of personal progression et al. Territory control, home ownership, complex guild options allowing for alliances and hostile relationships, offering systems that can be used to promote self sustainability (particularly expanding upon crafting or harvesting systems), regularly occurring GM-style events: these are just a few suggestions that I've personally found created a longer, more enjoyable endgame, some of which probably included PvP.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1852

1/19/14 5:15:25 PM#5

PvP isn't repetitive?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7499

1/19/14 5:21:02 PM#6
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

When your losing it can seem like it is.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1355

1/19/14 5:21:38 PM#7
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

:)

I think OP may have mean't most PvP is dynamic/different each time you partake (unless your very unlucky to play against the same person day in day out. :))

PvE can be dynamic depending on the players your playing with. However your opponents in PvE are not dynamic, they regurgitate the same skills in the same order. They're very predictable and get boring more quickly (IMO).

  Ramanadjinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1316

1/19/14 5:25:01 PM#8
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

 

It depends on the game and your tastes imo.

In something like WOW it can get repetitive from some viewpoints.  Some can still find it fun and interesting after a while though in that no fight plays out exactly as the one before it.  And you can always find a way to challenge yourself to play better and overcome that next obstacle.

In something more open and less scripted like Mortal Online though I wouldn't say it ever gets repetitive unless viewed from the most short sighted of viewpoints.  Games like that have their own issues, but repetitiveness isn't one.

 

 

  IGaveUp

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 272

I can't pull it off. I gave up.

1/19/14 5:28:39 PM#9

Dynamic dungeons generated procedurally would break up the repetitiveness of PVE endgame.

 

On triggering an instance to spawn, the server would run a procedure that produces a maze from individual components then setup matching mob spawns based either default or customized difficulty configuration.

 

The more diverse the components (dungeon segments), perhaps including multiple art sets, the more diverse the interior.

 

All sorts of potential options could be available:

  • Tune for short, medium, or long runs
  • Tune for strict linear or multipath dungeons
  • Tune for group size (5 to 20 man for example)
  • Tune for combat style (tank-n-spank or scripted combat)

 

It wouldn't be as diverse as having dozens of custom designed dungeons, but it would be far more diverse than running the exact same dungeon  over and over.

 

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2701

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/19/14 6:19:49 PM#10

Even PvP can be repetitive. Killing the same group of people over and over again gets old fast (even faster for those being killed). I don't care what anyone says about possible outcomes or any of that foolishness. This holds especially true for designated PvP areas (think arenas, instance maps and zones). And although open world PvP would be the best form of breaking that repetition, boredom will eventually set in for even those who hold PvP at a higher value than all other social interactive systems available for mmorpgs. This is what leads some into deviant behaviors like ganking and griefing. Repetition--->Boredom--->Undesired/Deviant Behaviors (whether that's ganking, griefing or quitting)

 

So until someone can think up a system that successfully pacifies these two types of deviant behaviors, no form of open world PvP will be embraced by the masses who don't go looking for a fight. And those that do embrace it will continue practice their form of endgame content on the minority of players who do accept open world PvP. That is until of course they too grow tired of the repetitive action of getting targeted and killed constantly.

 

So how do you stymy the feeling of repetition found at endgame? Because please understand, eventually all players will find themselves at this point even with a perfect endgame system in place. The key is multiple endgame systems. Not one, not two, not even three. There needs to be at least four. Four endgame systems in place to curb players from feeling repetitiveness too quickly. More importantly each of those systems has to have two variations: solo and group.

 

Not an easy task. Furthermore these systems have to be interwoven and dependent on each other. Each needs a desire, a penalty and a countermeasure that is acceptable by a large majority of the player base. And that includes being accepted by those practicing deviant behaviors. So 4 systems x 2 variations = 8 endgame systems working in harmony. Good luck trying to figure that one out.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  maccarthur2004

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 508

 
OP  1/19/14 6:49:50 PM#11
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

PVP can or can't be repetitive, but PVE in the "endgame" is always repetitive.

 

 

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

1/19/14 6:57:55 PM#12
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

PVP can or can't be repetitive, but PVE in the "endgame" is always repetitive.

 

 

 

 

PvP is always repetitive.

if you fight arena style combat it is repetitive you have a tactic against a certain team and you react towards the actions from that team. but you always use the same strategy its repetition.

and even in large scale combat it is repetitive. But on a bigger scale. kill healers first. deploy siege weapons bring down the gate and send a advance scout team to a position etc.

its abit more out of the box and stuff are not set in stone but when you get tacticaly into a situation it becomes repetition.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1953

1/19/14 7:02:47 PM#13
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Rusque

PvP isn't repetitive?

PVP can or can't be repetitive, but PVE in the "endgame" is always repetitive.

 

 

 

 

For you.  Raiders as a whole would most likely say otherwise.  As far as I'm concerned, MMOs are all about repetition, in fact, most gaming is in general.  The best we can do is to make it as fun as possible.  Pvp is fun for some gamers and not for others, just like pve is for some and not for others and crafting and gathering and roleplaying, loot gathering, puzzle solving and any other kind of gaming system.  I personally prefer games that have no pvp what-so-ever.  I can tolerate games that have both with the focus on pve and pretty much can do without those with pvp focus or pvp only.  If I forced myself into a game like Eve or Planetside 2, I'd go insane from boredom and irritation and the whole thing would feel like some kind of repetitive hell.

  GuyClinch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 484

1/19/14 11:52:17 PM#14

Both PvP and PvE are repetitive - as is all gaming right now. But done right the players will feel a sense of mastery as they become better at playing and defeating more difficult content. With each bump in the progress the players will feel happy. This is why farming isn't as fun as progression raiding. It's the same thing with arena - matchups vs. tougher and tougher opponents are more and more fun.

It's the old easy to play hard to master. Tetris is very repetitive - but its fun because it gradually becomes more and more difficult. This is incidentally where Blizzard has messed up of late. Leveling is easy, low level dungeons are easy. lfr and regular dungeons are easy - but normal raiding has some difficulty and Heroic raiding is hard.

So instead of easy - less easy -  slightly challenging - challenging - hard to super tough.. They skip most of the in between steps because now everyone has to see the content. They should be thinking about content that's right for everyone..

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1824

1/20/14 3:19:12 AM#15
Suggesting that PvP in an MMO is some sort of silver bullet to save the game from a grindy hell is not true. All to often, grind in online games is sucking players in to getting some PvP I-Win button gear and it's the PvP that burns the players out trying to be baws on the PvP aspect. Instead of just playing out the content on various classes to see how they survive, it becomes marathon speed runs on reward systems for some over rated gear. more often than not, PvP gear.
  Heafstagg

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 167

1/20/14 3:23:29 AM#16
You can have plenty of engaging end game content that's dynamic and interesting without the need for pvp. Economy, politics or interesting crafting. Not everyone NEEDS pvp. The problem is that so many people only see in black and white when it comes to MMO's these days. Always with the polar opposites. It's getting tiring.

  funyahns

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 316

1/20/14 3:39:58 AM#17
I think you can mix things up in end game with pve. Say you could have an open dungeon with several different areas.  You could randomize the names that pop in that region.  You could totally mix up raid fights too.  That way you cannot predict when and where adds are coming.  No telegraphing of certain moves.  The big problem is people can watch a fight and see how everything happens.  You could also be forced to split your raid group up and handle different content at the same time.
  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

1/20/14 3:41:48 AM#18
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

So i think.

Anyone knows any manner to make a mmo's "endgame" content be no-repetitive (or no-previsible) without any kind of pvp?

 

 

Pvp has to be done right or it also becomes repetitive real quick. Jump in a few WoW battlegrounds if you don't believe me

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2924

1/20/14 3:54:07 AM#19
All PvP is repetitive too. MMOs can't be not repetitive because they try to not have an end but that's impossible. Every game has an end. MMOs compensate for that by giving repetitive endgame content so that people don't feel like they've "beaten" the game. 

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