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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » WOW clones are not WOW clones

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24 posts found
  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 1:53:51 AM#1

Sorry, my second post in as many hours, but restless.  

I was thinking about this for a while.  The common insult thrown about is that every game post about 2006 is a wow clone.  

I think this is fundamentally incorrect.  

A few caveates first.  I am taking the prime of WOW as being vanilla through TBC.  Admittedly subscribers/ sales peaked in 2010 but at this time they opened the Chinese market which skewed the figures.  You can also only sell an expanssion on the back of the reputation of earlier content.  So if you are willing to accept the above (I am sure I will hear heartfelt diatribes from many who are not) then I will continue: -

WOW vanilla/ TBC did gather and streamline a lot of features from earlier mmos; however it also incorporated the following: - 

  • A relatively steep levelling curve (certainly by today's standards). 
  • A sense of being thrown into a world and finding your way. 
  • An open world. 
  • Multiple levelling paths. 
  • A need to earn/ save money for what would now be considered 'givens' (skills/ mounts etc)
  • A sense of achievement through hard graft particularly with regard to tradeskills etc.
  • Limited fast travel.
  • Limited fast grouping options.
  • A very social experience in that you were required to group with people for a number of quests/ dungeons, and that servers felt like small places with many familiar faces.
  • The luck of being many people's first mmo experience.
  • Exploration including relatively obscure quests/ vendors etc.
  • spontaneous open world pvp
  • I am sure there are many more...
 I would contend that none of the so-called wow-clones have actually endeavoured to replicate the features that made vanilla / TBC WOW popular.  They have refined them, tweaked them, removed them, renamed them, but never has a game truly learnt from WOW's early success,  
 
Perhaps a few games need to look at WOW's success with fresh eyes and try to replicate some of the features that people enjoyed?
 
What do you think?   
  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

1/18/14 2:04:38 AM#2

I think WoW was your first MMO, as evidenced by your list being found in prior MMOs too.

 

WoW clone is merely a lazy way of banding games together in the same category which play almost identically.  Each game is still unique in some fashion however they all 'feel' the same to many.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4785

1/18/14 2:07:02 AM#3
Originally posted by Miblet

 

WoW clone is merely a lazy way of banding games together in the same category which play almost identically.  Each game is still unique in some fashion however they all 'feel' the same to many.

With emphasis on the lazy part, I agree.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

1/18/14 2:27:16 AM#4
You are right OP.

when I think of wow clone I think fetch/kill quest, dungeons and bad crafting. Interesting I think of cataclysm wow, today's wow. I couldn't be talking about classic or bc. Where me and a friend, as night elves set out on an adventure to travel to ironforge. Where I traveled across the world to a cave in thousand needles to get my felhunter with only the quest txt as my guide.

No mmorpg has cloned Azeroth. They've cloned systems, but for some reason cannot clone the world. Hmm

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 2:47:50 AM#5
Originally posted by bcbully
You are right OP.

when I think of wow clone I think fetch/kill quest, dungeons and bad crafting. Interesting I think of cataclysm wow, today's wow. I couldn't be talking about classic or bc. Where me and a friend, as night elves set out on an adventure to travel to ironforge. Where I traveled across the world to a cave in thousand needles to get my felhunter with only the quest txt as my guide.

No mmorpg has cloned Azeroth. They've cloned systems, but for some reason cannot clone the world. Hmm

Thanks, this is the sort of response I was hoping for.  WOW has become a dirty word, but for me there were a lot of happy memories back in 2005- and the game mechanics were no small part of that.  

  peteski123

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 462

1/18/14 2:56:01 AM#6
I agree about this probably being your first mmo as WOW openly admitted taking from other great games when it was made. IE..  Everquest.  so WOW is a clone, doesn't matter how popular it is other games made WOW. just a note
  GuyClinch

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 477

1/18/14 2:58:42 AM#7

WoW was likely the best video game in the world back in TBC, IMHO. Nothing really came close to that at the time. But these tab target/holy trinity/exclamation point quest getting games are all inspired by WoW and thus feel like bad versions of WoW. None of them are very good though.

I think the new games are more of a combination of action/shooter style combat and take alot from games like GW2 and Borderlands - so that will be the new thing.. of the future. So worry not..

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 2:59:15 AM#8
Originally posted by peteski123
I agree about this probably being your first mmo as WOW openly admitted taking from other great games when it was made. IE..  Everquest.  so WOW is a clone, doesn't matter how popular it is other games made WOW. just a note

I said that WOW did this upfront,  but people do not say EQ or UO clone do they?  They say WOW clone which is the entire point if this thread.... 

  peteski123

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 462

1/18/14 3:01:56 AM#9
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by peteski123
I agree about this probably being your first mmo as WOW openly admitted taking from other great games when it was made. IE..  Everquest.  so WOW is a clone, doesn't matter how popular it is other games made WOW. just a note

I said that WOW did this upfront,  but people do not say EQ or UO clone do they?  They say WOW clone which is the entire point if this thread.... 

Sorry I missed that part, where did you say this here??

 

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 3:04:11 AM#10
Originally posted by peteski123
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by peteski123
I agree about this probably being your first mmo as WOW openly admitted taking from other great games when it was made. IE..  Everquest.  so WOW is a clone, doesn't matter how popular it is other games made WOW. just a note

I said that WOW did this upfront,  but people do not say EQ or UO clone do they?  They say WOW clone which is the entire point if this thread.... 

Sorry I missed that part, where did you say this here??

 

WOW vanilla/ TBC did gather and streamline a lot of features from earlier mmos; however it also incorporated the following: - 

  peteski123

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 462

1/18/14 3:07:05 AM#11

ok my mistake you did add that. However all new mmo's still add something new, My point still standing .

People love this WOW clone topic especially people who started with WOW, are you one of them?

  sunandshadow

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/13
Posts: 635

1/18/14 3:07:39 AM#12

I don't consider "WoW clone" an insult, just a descriptive term meaning that the game's design is based at least 80% on that of WoW.  Not specifically vanilla WoW.  Perfect World, for example, has used its expansions to emulate parts of WoW's expansions - their Mer race homeland, for example, is clearly inspired by the Drenai starting area in WoW.  Describing Perfect World as "a WoW clone with a Chinese fantasy flavor, except f2p" is an efficient and accurate way to communicate to people that Perfect World have very similar mechanics and play to WoW; if someone wants "more WoW but with different quests and areas", Perfect World might be a great choice for them.

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 3:08:44 AM#13
Originally posted by peteski123

ok my mistake you did add that. However all new mmo's still add something new, My point still standing .

People love this WOW clone topic especially people who started with WOW, are you one of them?

This is the entire point of the thread, and I didn't 'add' that I wrote it as part of the thread.  Are you being purposefully antagonistic? 

  peteski123

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 462

1/18/14 3:16:49 AM#14

No it's not intentionally at you sorry, just sick of the continued discussion about the topic WOW clone. It never ends. If people let each game rate itself then we could move on. All tech comes from previous tech this we know. it's not enlightening when people have to make new topics about the same thing. No matter if they think they are defending it, it's still old.

 

Carry on, I'll go wack myself

 

  gwei1984

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 357

1/18/14 3:17:41 AM#15

A point where i actually was very disappointed, was the streamlining of dungeons with release of TBC. Before then, you had great architectures like Blackrock Depths, Maraudon, Stratholme, Scholomance... Vast overwhelming dungeon-complexes which really felt like epic dungeons and in which you could easily get lost.

But then began the time of the one-way dungeons. And since then no big AAA MMO dared to go away from this system.

Maybe put up some direction signs:    Here >>> "To the fu..ing Loot Chest!"

 

I want my dungeons back! *sadface*

Hodor!

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

 
OP  1/18/14 3:18:39 AM#16
Originally posted by peteski123

No it's not intentionally at you sorry, just sick of the continued discussion about the topic WOW clone. It never ends. If people let each game rate itself then we could move on. All tech comes from previous tech this we know. it's not enlightening when people have to make new topics about the same thing. No matter if they think they are defending it, it's still old.

 

Carry on, I'll go wack myself

 

Have fun 'wacking' yourself. 

  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

1/18/14 3:49:40 AM#17
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by peteski123
I agree about this probably being your first mmo as WOW openly admitted taking from other great games when it was made. IE..  Everquest.  so WOW is a clone, doesn't matter how popular it is other games made WOW. just a note

I said that WOW did this upfront,  but people do not say EQ or UO clone do they?  They say WOW clone which is the entire point if this thread.... 

Actually almost every time this type of thread comes up someone points out WoW was an EQ clone.

The term WoW clone is used rather than EQ clone due to the size of the WoW playerbase, the game itself (until phasing) introduced nothing new to the genre and in many cases had less than those before (though it did so with far more polish and ease of use for those with little time or social inclinations).  Even EQ itself wasn't entirely original however the first generation of 3D MMOs broke far more newer ground in their first few years than we have seen in the last decade.

Many people still believe WoW was the first of it's type and was the birthplace of many of the systems in place today.

 

However the phrasing of the OP alludes that WoW did something not done before by adding such aspects when they were (often) all included in some form in prior games.

'...however it also incorporated the following: -'

Don't get me wrong WoW is / was a great game, you don't get numbers that high for being awful despite what many on this site and others would argue, but groundbreaking is not a word I would use with Blizzard's products in general.  Polished, fun yes.

You are also making the assumption that the game's popularity itself had no other factors beyond the game that influenced the sudden burst in online gaming prevalence.  The spread and availability of high speed internet, the cost and ease of PC gaming, changing attitudes to gaming in general all had large impacts too.  As many have said WoW was a phenomenon that we may not see again for quite some time, if ever, due to a perfect culmination of events coinciding with a great game.

  SirPKsAlot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 224

1/18/14 4:39:52 AM#18
WoW / EQ are clones of text-based MUDs. Every MMORPG is just multiplayer Zork.


Currently playing: Eldevin Online as a Deadly Assassin

  zwei2

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 337

1/18/14 4:53:40 AM#19
Unless an mmo allows the user to enter the game to play as themselves, any new MMOs are just clones of old MMOs, WOW or no.

The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

1/18/14 5:26:38 AM#20

It's like "Thanks Obama"...Your going to see it weather it is deserved or not. Because, it's that big.

 

Where it comes to "WoW-Clone" specifically. I tend to think it is derogative or dismissive when I see it. But, if I see "WoW-esc" And, especially if it's put as "looks WoW-esc" or "plays WoW-esc". It doesn't seem so quite as much. Where "WoW-Clone" might express that the game is being viewed as directly based of WoW, "WoW-esc" seems to me to be saying that the game doesn't ignore WoW or it's winning factors. And, tries to emulate parts of that while still striving to do it's own thing. Also, when you relate one aspect of a game as WoW-esc, like it's graphical fidelity and visual aesthetics along side common themes. Or just it's combat, or just the crafting. Then all it is doing, is giving a simple example that a lot of people should be able to understand. It is still a little lazy, because rather then actually describing things your relying on something being common knowledge that may not be for half the people reading.


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