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General Discussion  » Blizzard and Knowing when to stop.

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119 posts found
  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 9:44:12 AM#21
Originally posted by Shadoed

Does it affect me? No.

Would i purchase a L90 char? No.

Is this drama valid? No.

It is another 'option' for players who wish to take it up, they aren't forcing people to buy it, they aren't making an extra charge on the sub for it, it is an optional extra that you may purchase if you want it. I know i have and many others probably have a character that they have levelled so far but found they weren't enjoying it as much as they thought and so can't be bothered to level it the rest of the way, so maybe this is the option for them to see how it plays out at a higher level.

Moreover, they haven't confirmed that they will be doing this yet anyway, they are putting out feelers to the community to gather opinion and see whether it is something worthwhile doing anyway.

I will never understand the uproar of the shop when they are still maintaining a sub model that does not force you to use these options if you don't want to. If they start producing pay to win options then i could see some reason for concern within the community, but we aren't there yet, so maybe chill out a little.

I'm sorry if this appears it was out of anger, as it is not. I did not cry out against the in-game store when it arrived as I knew it was already there for a very long time. They just made it more convenient. Mounts and armor for just visual looks is I suppose an "ok" thing (Though I do wish they allowed other means of receiving these or maybe just a different colored version for an only in-game obtainable mount.) 

 

If this appeared as me wanting to start drama, I assure you it is not. I have played WoW on and off for many years and I was actually shocked that the exp. potion they were considering selling turned into this. While imo this is bad business procedure I suppose numbers don't lie and if Blizzard knows people are okay with this, then they won't stop until enough people are not "okay" with it.

 

This post is simply to show those who may have not seen this yet (As I haven't seen it and was quite surprised by the decision) and to ask for the opinions of others to see when enough is enough. So far I have noticed people seem to be alright with Blizzard almost selling anything as long as its not flat-out power for endgame.

 

In the end, all I will do is stop playing the game. My money is my vote and they have probably lost it for many years to come. I hope you are able to see some of my reasoning and forgive me if it seemed rash. I only wish for meaningful conversation, as we only know are own opinion before hearing others and looking at it from other views is not a bad thing.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17131

1/17/14 9:49:50 AM#22
Originally posted by Rusque

They stop when it starts hurting the bottom line. Just like every other business.

I was going to write the same thing until I saw this.

so, er ^ this.

They will stop/change once they lose more players than they can get new players.

If every decision they make makes more money and they still have an acceptable amount of players then they will keep making those decisions.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

1/17/14 9:52:39 AM#23
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Gravarg
I don't get why you would buy a 90 anyways.  It's easy to level these days, especially with RaF.  You can easily get to 85 in about 8-10 hours of playtime with RaF.  85-90 about another 10 hours.  I can do it in 2 days easily.

You just answered to your own question. Leveling content 1-89 is worthless, and doesn't even qualify as a gaming experience. Blizzard knows this, and sells short cut to skip the whole boredom those early levels have become.

This is getting ridiculous. Lotro cash shop already has an item for sale that stops your experience gain for a short period of time. Now WoW sells auto leveling services in their CS to bypass content they've deliberately made tedious and boring. So it's a good idea business-wise to f*** up your own game and then sell fixes for real money?

Pathetic!

Actually the 1-60 experience is quite fresh and awesome thanks to the Cata updates.

70-80 is awesome because Northrend kicks ass and is great storytelling and interesting quests/locales.

85-90 is the best questing Blizzard has done yet, even if you don't like all the Eastern themes.

So really, only 60-70 TBC and 80-85 Cata zones are poorly designed and tediously oppressive.

The free 90 idea is brilliant to help keep the game relevant and encourage people who left after TBC or Wrath or Cata to come back and be caught up.

As Blizzard themselves says, the number of completely new "never played WoW' players is quite low, but the number of people who could return for WoD is high enough to make the 90 boost a great persuasion point.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 9:54:07 AM#24
Originally posted by Speedhaak

What's the point any more. Why don't they just remove the levelling and make the entire game raid and end-game focused. This is really one of the final nails in said coffin for me. I've been with WoW since it launched and I've seen it morph into this un-challenging, repetitive cash cow and it makes me a little sad. 

Someone should tell Blizzard the whole point of an MMO is the journey, not the destination. 

I know exactly what you mean. I believe leveling anymore is almost intended to be boring to some degree as this makes the endgame, in our mind, better than the leveling experience (Even if both may just be mediocre).

 

MMO's used to be about the journey back when they were first becoming popular as people didn't know any different. Now people expect endgame to be the only enjoyable part of the experience and so they rush to it expecting amazing. I think this may be due to the fact that there is very little and possibly zero reasons to drag the leveling experience on. Everything you can do while leveling you can do it better at endgame. Gathering is one part of this. Why gather while leveling with my low inventory space when I can come back on my super fast mount with loads of inventory?

 

Maybe I will get hate for this but I feel Runescape nailed this aspect. Endgame wasn't really what you did, leveling was. While some found it boring I personally found it entertaining doing whatever I wanted as there were also many different "Mini-games" to put your time into (For those who have played, mini-games can vary from being something like a battleground to just a distraction, but almost always had some kind of reason to do it). Now however, Runescape has changed too much for me to ever consider going back. It was fun while it lasted, but as always, good things must come to an end at some point.

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 9:58:15 AM#25
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Gravarg
I don't get why you would buy a 90 anyways.  It's easy to level these days, especially with RaF.  You can easily get to 85 in about 8-10 hours of playtime with RaF.  85-90 about another 10 hours.  I can do it in 2 days easily.

You just answered to your own question. Leveling content 1-89 is worthless, and doesn't even qualify as a gaming experience. Blizzard knows this, and sells short cut to skip the whole boredom those early levels have become.

This is getting ridiculous. Lotro cash shop already has an item for sale that stops your experience gain for a short period of time. Now WoW sells auto leveling services in their CS to bypass content they've deliberately made tedious and boring. So it's a good idea business-wise to f*** up your own game and then sell fixes for real money?

Pathetic!

Actually the 1-60 experience is quite fresh and awesome thanks to the Cata updates.

70-80 is awesome because Northrend kicks ass and is great storytelling and interesting quests/locales.

85-90 is the best questing Blizzard has done yet, even if you don't like all the Eastern themes.

So really, only 60-70 TBC and 80-85 Cata zones are poorly designed and tediously oppressive.

The free 90 idea is brilliant to help keep the game relevant and encourage people who left after TBC or Wrath or Cata to come back and be caught up.

As Blizzard themselves says, the number of completely new "never played WoW' players is quite low, but the number of people who could return for WoD is high enough to make the 90 boost a great persuasion point.

Sorry, I probably should have cut the normal post down. I am referring to ability to purchase a level 90 character. I am completely okay with the free 90 and I can entirely see why they did that. I feel that it was a great move on their part.

 

I think what he means is that being able to pay for a shortcut is Blizzard simply saying "Yeah, we know a lot of you don't like leveling, so here, buy your way out of it."

  aspekx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2193

1/17/14 10:11:32 AM#26

WoW is im sure running into the wall that all games with this much mileage on them begin to show.

 

1. if you keep upping the level cap you're going to eventually start outpacing not only members of your own audience, but possible new players as well.

 

2. when you design a game with one goal: reaching endgame play, then you can't be surprised when no one wants to level through 90 or more levels in order to participate in 'the real game'.

 

this is why i enjoy games far more that have a large set of horizontal content, rather than vertical. i can enjoy hanging out at certain levels doing other things besides scrambling to get to the 'good stuff' at the top.

 

in the case of WoW i had thought they were going to address this in Cataclysm by not only upgrading certain low level areas for higher level play, but also revamping much of the pre-level cap leveling content as well.

 

didnt happen. which is a shame. i think a lot of games have a potential for much greater content if they would begin expanding horizontally. perhaps the player 'housing' in the next xpac will build some of that content into this game.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 10:16:26 AM#27
Originally posted by aspekx

WoW is im sure running into the wall that all games with this much mileage on them begin to show.

 

1. if you keep upping the level cap you're going to eventually start outpacing not only members of your own audience, but possible new players as well.

 

2. when you design a game with one goal: reaching endgame play, then you can't be surprised when no one wants to level through 90 or more levels in order to participate in 'the real game'.

 

this is why i enjoy games far more that have a large set of horizontal content, rather than vertical. i can enjoy hanging out at certain levels doing other things besides scrambling to get to the 'good stuff' at the top.

 

in the case of WoW i had thought they were going to address this in Cataclysm by not only upgrading certain low level areas for higher level play, but also revamping much of the pre-level cap leveling content as well.

 

didnt happen. which is a shame. i think a lot of games have a potential for much greater content if they would begin expanding horizontally. perhaps the player 'housing' in the next xpac will build some of that content into this game.

Yeah, it would be really nice if their new expansions were just adding onto the endgame, but just massive amounts of content and such. Imagine, all of the work that goes into leveling, going into new battlegrounds, raids and such. Sounds great.

  Dragnelus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/10
Posts: 306

1/17/14 10:22:34 AM#28

Why quit, when it makes millions of ppl happy and they make profit off it. Doesnt make sense.

I havent played it in 2/3 years, but if it was mine company, I would run it till it loses money.  

  Shadoed

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/03
Posts: 1484

1/17/14 10:43:43 AM#29
Originally posted by Bruhza
If this appeared as me wanting to start drama, I assure you it is not. I have played WoW on and off for many years and I was actually shocked that the exp. potion they were considering selling turned into this. While imo this is bad business procedure I suppose numbers don't lie and if Blizzard knows people are okay with this, then they won't stop until enough people are not "okay" with it.

 

This post is simply to show those who may have not seen this yet (As I haven't seen it and was quite surprised by the decision) and to ask for the opinions of others to see when enough is enough. So far I have noticed people seem to be alright with Blizzard almost selling anything as long as its not flat-out power for endgame.

 

In the end, all I will do is stop playing the game. My money is my vote and they have probably lost it for many years to come. I hope you are able to see some of my reasoning and forgive me if it seemed rash. I only wish for meaningful conversation, as we only know are own opinion before hearing others and looking at it from other views is not a bad thing.

As much as you protest it, it does seem like you are stirring up a drama because how does this affect your gaming experience in any way what so ever?

Does someone purchasing a L90 character stop you doing anything within the game as it stands?

Does someone else spending their hard earned money on something that they see as useful affect you in any way?

Does Blizzard making a little more money from this new shop item (if or when they decide to do it) affect you in any way?

I think that the answer to all of those is a resounding no, so making statements about leaving the game because of something that has absolutely no adverse affect on your gaming experience to my mind smacks very much of a little drama, but hey, that is just me.

It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  mrputts

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/23/05
Posts: 175

1/17/14 10:50:20 AM#30

Bravo for Blizzard. I don't think they went to far why not find ways to make cash

 

I believe it was P.T. Barnum that popularized "A fool and his money are soon parted."

 

If someone is willing to spend money for power level. Than I don't believe they deserved to have that money in the first place.

Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 617

1/17/14 11:13:32 AM#31
Originally posted by Bruhza
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Gravarg
I don't get why you would buy a 90 anyways.  It's easy to level these days, especially with RaF.  You can easily get to 85 in about 8-10 hours of playtime with RaF.  85-90 about another 10 hours.  I can do it in 2 days easily.

You just answered to your own question. Leveling content 1-89 is worthless, and doesn't even qualify as a gaming experience. Blizzard knows this, and sells short cut to skip the whole boredom those early levels have become.

This is getting ridiculous. Lotro cash shop already has an item for sale that stops your experience gain for a short period of time. Now WoW sells auto leveling services in their CS to bypass content they've deliberately made tedious and boring. So it's a good idea business-wise to f*** up your own game and then sell fixes for real money?

Pathetic!

Actually the 1-60 experience is quite fresh and awesome thanks to the Cata updates.

70-80 is awesome because Northrend kicks ass and is great storytelling and interesting quests/locales.

85-90 is the best questing Blizzard has done yet, even if you don't like all the Eastern themes.

So really, only 60-70 TBC and 80-85 Cata zones are poorly designed and tediously oppressive.

The free 90 idea is brilliant to help keep the game relevant and encourage people who left after TBC or Wrath or Cata to come back and be caught up.

As Blizzard themselves says, the number of completely new "never played WoW' players is quite low, but the number of people who could return for WoD is high enough to make the 90 boost a great persuasion point.

Sorry, I probably should have cut the normal post down. I am referring to ability to purchase a level 90 character. I am completely okay with the free 90 and I can entirely see why they did that. I feel that it was a great move on their part.

 

I think what he means is that being able to pay for a shortcut is Blizzard simply saying "Yeah, we know a lot of you don't like leveling, so here, buy your way out of it."

As a matter of fact the Cata revamp for 1-60 was the reason i quit WoW for good. I've always loved leveling and i used to spend countless of hours running instances, crafting and occasional PvP in BGs. When Cataclysm hit Azeroth, everything changed. Yes, quests improved a lot from story telling POV, but the meaning to craft, run dungeons or kill mobs disappeared. The only thing that matters now is the endgame, not the journey to get there.

So in a way, by revamping 1-60 in Cata Blizzard screwed the game for those who loved leveling, but they still force those who hate it to do this content in order to get to the max level and end game. I see it as a lose-lose situation.

Buying a max level character in an MMO makes no sense to me, but i can see why many people are willing to do so. It's the end game only that matters.

If there was an item in WoW cash shop that allowed me to restore the old world (before cataclysm hit), slowed down experience gains by x100 and removed all nerfs applied after 2008, i'd buy it in a blink of an eye.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1428

1/17/14 11:20:07 AM#32
Originally posted by Speedhaak

 

Someone should tell Blizzard the whole point of an MMO is the journey, not the destination. 

And somone should tell all other MMO developers that we need menaingfull content once we reach the destination, seeing as that is where we spend most of our time.

That is percisly the reason WoW is still the big dog in town.

  Geeky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 238

1/17/14 11:26:45 AM#33
Why do I want to continuously play though the content I've already been through multiple times before?  Give me an option to be max level (if I already have a max level toon) and I'd be more than happy to drop a buck or two for that rather than wasting my time running through the same old content I've seen a hundred times.
  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 11:30:49 AM#34
Originally posted by Shadoed
Originally posted by Bruhza
If this appeared as me wanting to start drama, I assure you it is not. I have played WoW on and off for many years and I was actually shocked that the exp. potion they were considering selling turned into this. While imo this is bad business procedure I suppose numbers don't lie and if Blizzard knows people are okay with this, then they won't stop until enough people are not "okay" with it.

 

This post is simply to show those who may have not seen this yet (As I haven't seen it and was quite surprised by the decision) and to ask for the opinions of others to see when enough is enough. So far I have noticed people seem to be alright with Blizzard almost selling anything as long as its not flat-out power for endgame.

 

In the end, all I will do is stop playing the game. My money is my vote and they have probably lost it for many years to come. I hope you are able to see some of my reasoning and forgive me if it seemed rash. I only wish for meaningful conversation, as we only know are own opinion before hearing others and looking at it from other views is not a bad thing.

As much as you protest it, it does seem like you are stirring up a drama because how does this affect your gaming experience in any way what so ever?

Does someone purchasing a L90 character stop you doing anything within the game as it stands?

Does someone else spending their hard earned money on something that they see as useful affect you in any way?

Does Blizzard making a little more money from this new shop item (if or when they decide to do it) affect you in any way?

I think that the answer to all of those is a resounding no, so making statements about leaving the game because of something that has absolutely no adverse affect on your gaming experience to my mind smacks very much of a little drama, but hey, that is just me.

Its simply a matter of business practice and how far they are willing to take it. No it doesn't effect me in any sort of way except that leveling is now clearly just a pointless chore to get to the "Good stuff". I stated I will stop paying for way, because that is what I am going to do. Drama is more towards the overreaction of something that didn't mean much to begin with. I find this simply my opinion rather than stirring up a fight. You're free to your own opinion as well. If you wish to look at this as drama, by all means go for it, but it is nothing more than a discussion.

  kalinis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1444

1/17/14 11:34:06 AM#35

I don't see the issue. They have a cash shop yes but its all mounts and pets at this time. The truth is u can see a possible free 2 play coming , Where u get access to everything but they sell cosmetic items , like transmog gear now that they have transmog in game. 

i have played wow for a long time and i have no issue with them selling mounts and companion pets and transmog gear if they decide to do so. I also have no issue with them selling  realm transfers and race changes and faction changes. 

I  have paid for mounts and companion pets as has my gf. There are so many u can get just for free in game with quests, rep, dungeon drops, raid drops that u don't have to buy the new shiny mount if u don't want to as well as other wasy to get mounts or companion pets. 

Like refer and freind and scroll of resurection. The boost to 90 so people can play with freinds doesn't bother me either. Now if they started selling gear that was top end then id have an issue but simple cosmetic items u don't need isn't that big a deal. 

Im giving my free boost to my nephew on my account anyways. i like to level from 1- max so im never gonna boost a character but the 90 boost is aimed at players who have been out of wow for a while and want to play with freinds in warlords.

Players are willing and able to pay for a 90 boost let them. It doesn't hurt me anyways, i can still go level 1- max or 58-max if i play a dk and it doesn't affect me at all. Its not liek they are given u top end gear with boost. Just quest level gear i believe

  Mechanism

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 102

1/17/14 11:34:20 AM#36

I vote yes because this combined with the accelerating rate they release cash shop items and their bevy of paid services and paid expansions more people are going to be wondering why a subscription is even necessary any more.

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 11:34:52 AM#37
Originally posted by Geeky
Why do I want to continuously play though the content I've already been through multiple times before?  Give me an option to be max level (if I already have a max level toon) and I'd be more than happy to drop a buck or two for that rather than wasting my time running through the same old content I've seen a hundred times.

I guess that brings me to the point of why they couldn't have added something in-game to obtain these lvl 90s. Remember BoA's? I suppose what I'm getting at is why they didn't just add a means of obtaining a new character lvl 90 by simply playing the End-game. Granted they would have to make it somewhat difficult to do, but I feel it would come off better in the long run.

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1050

1/17/14 11:37:19 AM#38
Originally posted by DamonVile
Blizzard went too far the day they added a cash shop to a sub game. 

Yeah definetly, also there cash shops are one of the most expensives.

$15 for helms, $20-40 for mounts or somthing stupid

Blizzard tactic = The triple dipping

Cash Shop

Subscription

Usualy Full price box/expansions aswell

 

Truely the most greedy company ive ever seen.

 

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 11:40:10 AM#39
Originally posted by kalinis

I don't see the issue. They have a cash shop yes but its all mounts and pets at this time. The truth is u can see a possible free 2 play coming , Where u get access to everything but they sell cosmetic items , like transmog gear now that they have transmog in game. 

i have played wow for a long time and i have no issue with them selling mounts and companion pets and transmog gear if they decide to do so. I also have no issue with them selling  realm transfers and race changes and faction changes. 

I  have paid for mounts and companion pets as has my gf. There are so many u can get just for free in game with quests, rep, dungeon drops, raid drops that u don't have to buy the new shiny mount if u don't want to as well as other wasy to get mounts or companion pets. 

Like refer and freind and scroll of resurection. The boost to 90 so people can play with freinds doesn't bother me either. Now if they started selling gear that was top end then id have an issue but simple cosmetic items u don't need isn't that big a deal. 

My issue isn't with the 90 with the expansion. I am completely okay with that. If you read into the article you will notice they are also wanting to "Sell" lvl 90 characters, not just the one free expansion 90, but as an actual item of sorts. I actually think the lvl 90 with the expansion is a fantastic idea and pretty much supported it from when I heard it.

 

Mounts are okay, transmog gear is okay, I am only asking the opinion of others on the ability to purchase a lvl 90 character almost whenever they want to.

  Bruhza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 282

 
OP  1/17/14 11:42:26 AM#40
Originally posted by sanshi44
Originally posted by DamonVile
Blizzard went too far the day they added a cash shop to a sub game. 

Yeah definetly, also there cash shops are one of the most expensives.

$15 for helms, $20-40 for mounts or somthing stupid

Blizzard tactic = The triple dipping

Cash Shop

Subscription

Usualy Full price box/expansions aswell

 

Truely the most greedy company ive ever seen.

 

Agreed. I'm not one to complain about business's making money, because that's their entire purpose, but for a subscription game I feel it is getting a bit out of hand.

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