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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Will the PvP area be a zerg fest?

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91 posts found
  General-Zod

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 558

Kneel.

1/16/14 3:01:22 PM#81
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

*whispers* People are still playing it and guess what ... they are paying a subscription too.. (gasp) 

*whispers* If Daoc wasnt that great nobody would be trying to replicate it.

No PR spin and im not saying Daoc is the pinnacle of solo pvp. All im simply saying is that Daoc wasnt just zerg vs zerg fest. I am a solo player who respects the solo game because its hard to make a name for yourself if you are just in a cluster f**k. Iv had countless 1v1, 1v3, 2 v groups in Daoc and thats the only reason why I played so long...

  User Deleted
1/16/14 3:29:29 PM#82
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

*whispers* People are still playing it and guess what ... they are paying a subscription too.. (gasp) 

*whispers* If Daoc wasnt that great nobody would be trying to replicate it.

No PR spin and im not saying Daoc is the pinnacle of solo pvp. All im simply saying is that Daoc wasnt just zerg vs zerg fest. I am a solo player who respects the solo game because its hard to make a name for yourself if you are just in a cluster f**k. Iv had countless 1v1, 1v3, 2 v groups in Daoc and thats the only reason why I played so long...

Even Zod had a couple of friends with him when he PVPed against Superman.

  Badaboom

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

1/16/14 4:04:56 PM#83
Originally posted by bcbully
@badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.

I sincerely hope so and that you're not just saying that if you're wearing rose coloured glasses.

  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

1/16/14 4:12:15 PM#84
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

*whispers* People are still playing it and guess what ... they are paying a subscription too.. (gasp) 

*whispers* If Daoc wasnt that great nobody would be trying to replicate it.

No PR spin and im not saying Daoc is the pinnacle of solo pvp. All im simply saying is that Daoc wasnt just zerg vs zerg fest. I am a solo player who respects the solo game because its hard to make a name for yourself if you are just in a cluster f**k. Iv had countless 1v1, 1v3, 2 v groups in Daoc and thats the only reason why I played so long...

Yes there are people playing it and paying for it, however its the same number of people give or take a few hundred that are still playing Fallen Earth. Sometimes people try to replicate old crap out of some sense of nostalgia, maybe that explains Darkfall. DAOC was always too restrictive from the very beginning, when it was new it had the privilege of being new. However that style of pvp is no longer new and I have  hard time believing you will ever get past the 300k player cap on a niche "pvp" system like that. There are very good reasons why Star Wars Galaxies never caught fire in the market or couldnt keep its player base intact, and there are also very good reasons why DAOC had a lower population than SWG. There are people paying online subs to play table tennis right now, but because 500 people do something self defeatist like that doesnt mean it works for the other 99 percent, unless you want to make an argument in favor of making hundreds of thousands of people accept tennis balls coded in flash as the next big thing in mmo gaming. 

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 867

1/16/14 4:31:18 PM#85
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by bcbully
@badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.

I sincerely hope so and that you're not just saying that if you're wearing rose coloured glasses.

Same here. Im a bit sceptical as it seems most gamers have different definition of "big" then me. I wonder if the problem is related to content of their pants ;-p

  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

1/16/14 4:47:17 PM#86
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by bcbully
@badaboom your guess is wrong. It was just a guess though ;)

Cryodill is too big, and detailed to become a circle zerg.

I sincerely hope so and that you're not just saying that if you're wearing rose coloured glasses.

Same here. Im a bit sceptical as it seems most gamers have different definition of "big" then me. I wonder if the problem is related to content of their pants ;-p

Yes and "big" wont help bad game design. If its just a zergfest with more open spaces or meaningless obstacles  you will just end up with hapless mobs running around desperately looking for another zerg to kill and by the time they find each other it will be like finding a long lost relative. That and more people standing around AFK. RVR turns pvp into forced busy work, all this does is make the busy work more aggravating. And all of that is meaningless without a large game population. You attain populations over time, you dont just assume 6 million people will fill  your RVR zone and pray for the best and thats exactly what has to happen because the PVE and non combat in general is basically meaningless in this game. 

  Haralin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/11
Posts: 79

1/17/14 3:20:17 AM#87

Every RvR, WvW or AvA Playmode will have mostly Zergs after a while.

 

DAoC much Zerg some 8 slot groups but mostly Zerg or Stealther Wars

Warhammer only Zerg very few groupfights

Guild Wars 2 at the beginning nice groupfights now only Zerg and the #1 skill on melees is AEO so easy to Zerg and spam #1

Lotro at the beginning nice fights now only Zerg

 

Zerg is the easy way to achieve something or if you are a soloplayer you need to zerg or you get ganked by a 3/5/8 slot group or stealther. So the most player like to zerg.

 

I am a player who plays all zerg, roaming or solo, all are fun and frustration in some kind.

 

So Zerg  is it,  you will see the most in a RvR, WvW or AvA mode.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

1/17/14 3:37:42 AM#88

It depends on the effective area of the AvA zone. Effective area not only means the actual area of the zone, but also available fast-transportation options.

The larger the effective area, the less effective it will be to put everyone in one big blob.

Guild Wars 2 failed in this sense by putting waypoints in the WvW area and generally making them too small in effective area. The bloodlust patch alleviated this somehow and added a real incentive for small groups to make an impact.

 

  General-Zod

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 558

Kneel.

1/17/14 9:22:28 AM#89

 

Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

*whispers* People are still playing it and guess what ... they are paying a subscription too.. (gasp) 

*whispers* If Daoc wasnt that great nobody would be trying to replicate it.

No PR spin and im not saying Daoc is the pinnacle of solo pvp. All im simply saying is that Daoc wasnt just zerg vs zerg fest. I am a solo player who respects the solo game because its hard to make a name for yourself if you are just in a cluster f**k. Iv had countless 1v1, 1v3, 2 v groups in Daoc and thats the only reason why I played so long...

Yes there are people playing it and paying for it, however its the same number of people give or take a few hundred that are still playing Fallen Earth. Sometimes people try to replicate old crap out of some sense of nostalgia, maybe that explains Darkfall. DAOC was always too restrictive from the very beginning, when it was new it had the privilege of being new. However that style of pvp is no longer new and I have  hard time believing you will ever get past the 300k player cap on a niche "pvp" system like that. There are very good reasons why Star Wars Galaxies never caught fire in the market or couldnt keep its player base intact, and there are also very good reasons why DAOC had a lower population than SWG. There are people paying online subs to play table tennis right now, but because 500 people do something self defeatist like that doesnt mean it works for the other 99 percent, unless you want to make an argument in favor of making hundreds of thousands of people accept tennis balls coded in flash as the next big thing in mmo gaming. 

Ill agree at the time 3 realm pvp was a new and exciting feature at the time and ill add that even with this particular "not new" feature you would think they would be able to improve upon it. 10 years ago flip phones were cool (atleast in califorina) .. if they were re-release the same ole flip phones they had 10 years ago without a little innovation it could be a disaster. WIth that being said, the Devs today have a hard time replicating the same phones ehrm, Features that were brought forth 10 years ago.. WTFIGO!?!

Star wars is a huge IP and it makes sense why it would have more players than Daoc. Which game was better SWG or SWTOR? Which game has/had more players? See now the numbers lie? Let me ask you this .. if the market for mmos in 1999 was 20 million players how many of those millions would of played SWG, EQ and Daoc?

  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

1/17/14 12:18:15 PM#90
Originally posted by General-Zod

 

Im pretty sure you're just generalizing and never actually competed on a high level  DaoC.. but im going to clear somethings up.

Daoc has zergs .. yes, However it also had its 1 v (any #) and small group battles that involve skill. If you never played Daoc and you assume that its anything  like GW2, please stop ... you're comparing apples to rocks.

No I wont take part in this positive PR spin if DAOC were that great people would still be playing it even with the horrible post Atlantis expansions. Even Zergs have pocket battles on the side from time to time but to have people thinking that is or in this case will be the norm is deceitful at best.  It doesnt stand up to UO it doesnt stand up to AC it doesnt even stand up to Shadowbane. I know its hard to understand and it makes DAOC vets lose sleep at night, but many of us did play DAOC, and we thought it sucked. 

*whispers* People are still playing it and guess what ... they are paying a subscription too.. (gasp) 

*whispers* If Daoc wasnt that great nobody would be trying to replicate it.

No PR spin and im not saying Daoc is the pinnacle of solo pvp. All im simply saying is that Daoc wasnt just zerg vs zerg fest. I am a solo player who respects the solo game because its hard to make a name for yourself if you are just in a cluster f**k. Iv had countless 1v1, 1v3, 2 v groups in Daoc and thats the only reason why I played so long...

Yes there are people playing it and paying for it, however its the same number of people give or take a few hundred that are still playing Fallen Earth. Sometimes people try to replicate old crap out of some sense of nostalgia, maybe that explains Darkfall. DAOC was always too restrictive from the very beginning, when it was new it had the privilege of being new. However that style of pvp is no longer new and I have  hard time believing you will ever get past the 300k player cap on a niche "pvp" system like that. There are very good reasons why Star Wars Galaxies never caught fire in the market or couldnt keep its player base intact, and there are also very good reasons why DAOC had a lower population than SWG. There are people paying online subs to play table tennis right now, but because 500 people do something self defeatist like that doesnt mean it works for the other 99 percent, unless you want to make an argument in favor of making hundreds of thousands of people accept tennis balls coded in flash as the next big thing in mmo gaming. 

Ill agree at the time 3 realm pvp was a new and exciting feature at the time and ill add that even with this particular "not new" feature you would think they would be able to improve upon it. 10 years ago flip phones were cool (atleast in califorina) .. if they were re-release the same ole flip phones they had 10 years ago without a little innovation it could be a disaster. WIth that being said, the Devs today have a hard time replicating the same phones ehrm, Features that were brought forth 10 years ago.. WTFIGO!?!

Star wars is a huge IP and it makes sense why it would have more players than Daoc. Which game was better SWG or SWTOR? Which game has/had more players? See now the numbers lie? Let me ask you this .. if the market for mmos in 1999 was 20 million players how many of those millions would of played SWG, EQ and Daoc?

I think even with a 20m market these games would never get this high I dont think there would BE a market that high if only those games were in play. DAOC I cannot invision it ever maintaining a pop over 1 million for any long period of time in any market just like GW2 cant do it now, not even close. Theres simply not enough to do, rvr alone in a themepark will not cut it. There has to be more than working catapults and taking towers 24/7 these games totally remove the danger and solo adventure aspects of mmorpgs. 

There is just a player cap on certain games, pure PVE raiding sure, you will have a pop of about 200 to 300 thousand, same with RVR, PVP sandbox maybe the same or lower, probably about half, Pure PVP about the same, RVR same as pure PVE. Its because people dont just want to do one thing they will get bored and leave. UO, WOW, even EQ at least had multiple paths to freedom. There is a reason certain wow expansions peaked and other like MOP lost players. Not because the game is dated so much but because in that Vanilla to BC era you could do almost anything. EVE anything within imagination, etc.

But those games populations today? Giving them the benefit of the doubt  Probably Lineage 8, EQ 4 SWG 2 UO 1 DAOC 500,000 These games didnt peak at the same time however but the games that were that far ahead of DAOC were that far ahead on the same scale with lower pop of course. This is simply for entertainment, non of those games would ever be that high. And Star Wars had a big IP then to, didnt help it then either, actually their peak populations are about the same, which is a bit poetic.  

  catlana

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1684

Playing GW2, ToR, PoE
Played AoC, Aion, DDO, EQ2, CoH, Rift, TERA, WAR, WoW

1/17/14 2:28:12 PM#91
Originally posted by tom_gore

It depends on the effective area of the AvA zone. Effective area not only means the actual area of the zone, but also available fast-transportation options.

The larger the effective area, the less effective it will be to put everyone in one big blob.

Guild Wars 2 failed in this sense by putting waypoints in the WvW area and generally making them too small in effective area. The bloodlust patch alleviated this somehow and added a real incentive for small groups to make an impact.

 

Waypoints in WvW was a amazingly stupid idea. I am not a huge fan of pvp in guildwars (grrr at endless vigor bunker builds) but they definitely have worked on it. 

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