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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Will the PvP area be a zerg fest?

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91 posts found
  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2653

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/15/14 9:25:07 AM#41
Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

 I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

 

Oh and choose your battles wisely

  Mackaveli44

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/08
Posts: 130

1/15/14 9:30:05 AM#42
Its inevitable to face zerg type gameplay in a PvP game.   Its apart of war.  Great example, look at the military.  We dont send 1 guy over to a country, we send an entire force when going into a war.  Its just the nature of it and itll happen in games as well.  Its smart if you think about it.  Strength in numbers.
  rodarin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 462

1/15/14 9:45:02 AM#43

The whole PvP system in this game is fundamentally flawed, as I alluded to before.

 

You cannot have PvE and PvP elements existing on the same map and expect everyone to have the same goals, and when the goals are achieved based on the PvP being 100% of the results it will never work.

 

Not to mention how the populations will be imbalanced and how some people will not be getting into Cyrodiil because one faction 'quits'.

 

Cyrodiil has a 2000 person limit. BUT if only 100 Ebonhart guys are in the map then that limits what Aldemari and Daggerfall can put in there. might sound 'great' for 'balance' but tell that to people who want to play, or want access to their guild store.

 

Trust me PvP is going to have an extreme backlash once the particulars of the system are seen in action.

 

They will more than likely try to change some of it after launch but we all know how those changes generally turn out.

 

But will it be a zerg? Of course it will. When you have premade and pre existing bullseyes on a map that require X amount of players to defeat how can it not? Its like one of those math problems we all had when we were younger. If Billy can paint a house in 4 hours alone, and Susie can paint a house in 6 hours alone and tommy can paint a house in 4 hours alone how long with it take them and 300 of their friends to zerg Cryodill? Come on you all remember that one.

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 586

1/15/14 9:57:26 AM#44

I like how some people are saying: No, it won't be a Zerg fest, because organized group beats zerg all the time.

How often do you expect to have organized groups in solo-centric MMORPG like TESO?

  Psion33

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 257

1/15/14 10:01:22 AM#45
Originally posted by Gravarg
By zergfest if you mean just masses of people running around killing everyone then I hope not.  I think it will be more like DAoC, with organized massive battles over towns, keeps, resources, etc.

 

"Organized."

 

*Runs for the hills.*

 

I don't want some pathetic dweeb micromanaging my gameplay.

  Zadawn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 676

1/15/14 10:02:12 AM#46
yes

  Psion33

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 257

1/15/14 10:02:46 AM#47
Originally posted by DeniZg

I like how some people are saying: No, it won't be a Zerg fest, because organized group beats zerg all the time.

How often do you expect to have organized groups in solo-centric MMORPG like TESO?

 

TESO is one of those games where I think the pug (everyone not in said group) will meet up to destroy any pre-conceived group. That's why I 1/2 want to play it. To watch the organized groups get over run by pugs. :D

 

But then, the fun of the game will be gone soon as the zealousness of the group is done. To each their own I suppose.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4128

1/15/14 10:57:40 AM#48
Originally posted by Psion33
Originally posted by DeniZg

I like how some people are saying: No, it won't be a Zerg fest, because organized group beats zerg all the time.

How often do you expect to have organized groups in solo-centric MMORPG like TESO?

 

TESO is one of those games where I think the pug (everyone not in said group) will meet up to destroy any pre-conceived group. That's why I 1/2 want to play it. To watch the organized groups get over run by pugs. :D

 

But then, the fun of the game will be gone soon as the zealousness of the group is done. To each their own I suppose.

Considering this and your previous post above about "dweebs" I have to wonder what organized PVP, if any, you have ever played... you sound very much like a "new age" solo MMO player.

  User Deleted
1/16/14 12:14:33 PM#49
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

 I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

 

Oh and choose your battles wisely

Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

  User Deleted
1/16/14 12:27:42 PM#50
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

 I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

 

Oh and choose your battles wisely

Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

1/16/14 12:38:43 PM#51

Isn't it always a zerg fest?

I mean, it's always going to be about "who's blob is bigger."

If you want epic, back and forth "even" and/or "fair" battles, you need to structure them and restrict how many people each side can bring and give them set objectives and "win" conditions.

This is why Battlegrounds were even made in MMOs in the first place!

The epic, story worthy fights are few and far between in open world PvP, the myth that such epicness is common place is the lie that keeps open world PvP alive, for the 1/10 times you play something amazingly awesome happens.

That 1/10 is enough for some, but not for a lot of people.

Hence, again, the popularity of arena style and/or battleground style PvP.

"Always bring more fighters" is the tried and true open world PvP strategy in MMOs. The real-world examples of having better technology or better skills/tactics aren't as applicable in the MMO space, despite what people may try and convince you to believe.

If you REALLY wanted to make "realistic" warfare, the side with the most $ would have the best equipment/tech and the best training, and/or be able to hire the most soldiers, but that'd be P2W which is bad for MMOs.

And then the dominate side would "win" and wipe the floor with their enemies, and reign supreme as a superpower for the majority of the game's life, unless infighting and such broke up the big superpower and allowed the little foes to band together and slowly nibble them down or wait for them to collapse under their own weight.

But eventually another rich/populated superpower would take over again and it's all just a cycle.

That's what EvE is, for the most part.

Is it fun? For some...

But most people like the fair fight, like the underdog winning.

But even that is dependent on finite resources, which video games don't have because it's all just respawning code.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2900

There... are... four... lights!

1/16/14 12:40:57 PM#52
Originally posted by jdnyc 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8881

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

1/16/14 12:55:25 PM#53
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by jdnyc 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

Actually the crowd controll was what made it fun.... Because dps and healing where for once not the main ingredients...   Crowd controll was the single thing that brought emotions to the game...  And offered well trained teams a huge advantage.  Yes it was overpowered... But then my healer with all its crowd controll and healing could not kill a lvl 1 rat solo...  But in a group, he turned intoo a beacon.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  User Deleted
1/16/14 1:15:13 PM#54
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by jdnyc 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

DAoC was even worse than the usual large scale PvP, because of it's utterly imbalanced crowd control. And as usual, it was zerg vs zerg with very little strategy involved.

That doesn't make it worse.  You needed teammates to have your back and strategy before you engaged.  Something that all PVP should be about.

Sadly too many people want to be Rambo instead and that's what makes PVP suck.

  User Deleted
1/16/14 1:35:44 PM#55
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

 I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

 

Oh and choose your battles wisely

Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

1/16/14 1:40:35 PM#56
Originally posted by Sleepyfish

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

*may be exaggerating due to A) nostalgia B) it was 15 years ago

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7657

1/16/14 1:47:39 PM#57
There most certainly will be Zergs. It takes a lot of people to take a keep. At the same time the Cryodill map won't allow circle zerging like we saw in gw2. Also the shear size of the place makes room for some interesting solo and small group play. The solo play is what hooked me. The place is very well built.
  User Deleted
1/16/14 1:48:51 PM#58
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Sleepyfish

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. 

UO I had a friend who played a Mage type, there wasn't any gear in the game of course back then and skilling up to your 700 cap wasn't that big of a deal either as the game allowed macro'ing.

But man, this guy, he could take on 3, 4 players at a time, all by himself and win. No exploits, no gimmicks, no overpowered skills... just balls. Big ones. And a hell of a lot of skill.

I never understood how he did that, but I sucked at PvP majorly in that game lol.

My other friend played a Dexer, I think Fencer? and another guy who was a Lumberjack/Axer type.

3 of them could wreck a group of 10. It was insane.

I played a hybrid mage mainly for PVE farming but I could solo most below average players trying to gank me and could even kill some of the baddies on Pacific. I was honestly never comfortable in 2D being more of a twitch real time reaction player. UO was the MMO for RTS players, so if you could micro manage well you could dominate in that game. I know I remember one guy had a lumberjack Axer mage  hybrid which was a pain to deal with, but I always build my specs to fight running away.

  Alminie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/05
Posts: 110

1/16/14 1:51:16 PM#59
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
More to get caught in my AoE spells. I plan to specialize all my morphs into AoEs.

 

 

then you will want the [Mage Ultimate Skill] *wink*wink*

  Celdryn

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/14
Posts: 87

1/16/14 1:57:14 PM#60
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Im wondering about how this 3 faction pvp all fighting in the middle will turn out.  I like to pvp but what i dont like is to zerg pvp, I use to love battles with groups over hunting spots and such in open world games, but when i tried GW2 with 3 areas fighting in one it was just a giant zerg fest. and thats not really for me.

Just looking for any info or opinions on how this might work out.

and also i see they have keeps? are these kind of like warhammer keeps that will just be flip flopped over and over? or do you actually own the keep for awhile?

 I laugh when I hear people talk like this.  There is room for Zerging in all PvP MMO's, if you get a dedicated good size group.  It is inevitable. If you don't like it then I am afraid there is no PvP MMO games for you.  Maybe try some FPS.

 

Oh and choose your battles wisely

Not really maybe some players groups, small instance groups of 5 or so, pvp hunting parties. But nothing like an RVR zerg.. He doesnt have to play an FPS, he can just not play a DAOC clone, so as long as he doesnt play GW2, gravy. Sure some people do enjoy the Zerg, but thats because you can get by without any real skill spamming AOE hotkeys in a Zerg. So its really pvp for the unskilled, you cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid that for some more meaningful pvp. 

Are you suggesting that DAoC is pvp for the unskilled?

I am not even suggesting it I am flat out saying it. PVP in those types of games involves moving zergs in patterns and workarounds to encounter other groups. It does not compare to me to Asherons Call or Ultima Online, of course I am going by the classic pre crap versions of all these games. And 1v1 does not mean Rambo, I would wager someone who wins a majority of 1v1 or 1v3 encounters is much more patient with the buttons than someone spamming his Q button in a Zerg. I am certain I will see more Rambo tactics in a GW2 fight than an open world fight in the middle of a field somewhere. 

Man, you never ran with a good gank group then in Daoc. Did you even play it ? Also, ambushing in Emain or Dun Crimthian... Please...

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