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General Discussion  » Will the PvP area be a zerg fest?

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91 posts found
  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

1/13/14 9:42:50 PM#21

I will believe all the claims when I see them.  

 

The people zerging get the most xp, loot etc .. the poor buggers in the back doing the support work get almost nothing.  And it is an AOE fest..

 

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7191

1/13/14 11:55:49 PM#22
Originally posted by Fusion
Most probably yes, i expect it to be pretty similar if not identical to that of WvW in GW2.

impossible. cryodill is simply to big, not to mention the terrain. you will not see circle keep zerging.

 

I don't know how XP and rewards break down, but I know that cryodill can be a solo gankers dream.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

1/14/14 3:11:22 AM#23
Originally posted by sethman75

Of course it will be

Besides arena type gameplay, all pvp is a zerg.

It's like a 10 year old mashing buttons on a 2d fighter.

You will win some and lose some but there is no structure, hence the reason so many people detest pvp

 

 

This is false. There is structure if you want there to be structure. Either you're part of the zerg, or you're not. You're quite able to join countless of other people who will be starting up coordinated groups and so on, and join them.

  User Deleted
1/14/14 7:23:36 AM#24
Originally posted by Fusion
Most probably yes, i expect it to be pretty similar if not identical to that of WvW in GW2.

Considering that this game actually has archtypes and they are putting in incentives to hold keeps, not just capture them, as well as having siege engines required to hold and cap keeps, I significantly doubt that.

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 864

1/14/14 7:30:07 AM#25
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Fusion
Most probably yes, i expect it to be pretty similar if not identical to that of WvW in GW2.

impossible. cryodill is simply to big, not to mention the terrain. you will not see circle keep zerging.

 

I don't know how XP and rewards break down, but I know that cryodill can be a solo gankers dream.

So how big it is? How long it takes to travel from one end to the other? 

  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

1/14/14 7:31:43 AM#26
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Fusion
Most probably yes, i expect it to be pretty similar if not identical to that of WvW in GW2.

impossible. cryodill is simply to big, not to mention the terrain. you will not see circle keep zerging.

 

I don't know how XP and rewards break down, but I know that cryodill can be a solo gankers dream.

So how big it is? How long it takes to travel from one end to the other? 

Cyrodill is supposed to be the size of Cyrodill from The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion

  MikePaladin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/04/13
Posts: 234

Creative nick name nuff to say...

1/14/14 7:40:42 AM#27

Acctualy after doing deep in Gw2 world versus world PVP I loved zerg vs zerg.

WHEN you see huge group of angry red enemies running to you and Commander lead all this people and if people use correct skill and right moment in order so mitigate dmg or heal allies of burst down enemies and all  40 people instantly  react to each other with heal support CC it's great you will fell like a part of something big and powerful.

But it dependes of commander and than on people if people a noobs commandar can't do anything.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 425

1/14/14 8:07:06 AM#28

People can say what they want but by design the game will be zerg when it comes to taking major objectives. Sure small groups can take small objectives but if they allow 10 people to take a keep or a gate or anything over a resource sized sight how will people react? Obviously in the middle of the night with the right siege it might be possible wih zero human defense, but even then they have talked about 'down time' capping.

 

Anyone that wants to see how this will work really doesnt have to look further than GW2, I dont know why people dont get that. Sure during PEAK PEAK hours, and weekends, if everyone can get in, you might play the design as people will think it is going to be all the time. But the other 18 or so hours of the (week)day its going to be people running around looking to do what they can with the amount of people they have. If they cant do anything with several small groups then they will all be 'forced' to join up to do something 'worthwhile'.

 

Everyone always looks at these things under the perfection microscope. Where there are the exact same amount of people in the map all day everyday. That isnt realistic, and has shown to be unrealistic forever.

 

There will be a main zerg when there are a lot of people on, these  games always degenerate to that. Whether they will be effective or not is another story. But I suspect they will. When there arent a lot of people on and smaller groups are spinning their wheels they will require help. Whether one wants to play the semantics game and call that a zerg is debatable. But if they have restrictions on how many people or siege weapons or how ever they plan on 'protecting' objectives during down time, then it will require a large force If they dont have any restrictions then it makes the whole capturing stuff fairly moot. Because then whom ever can field the most people during the off times has the distinct advantage. Again look no further than GW2 and how the NA servers were openly recruiting Oceanic guilds, and just how much hat effected how well that server did and how badly the server the oceanic guild did after they left.

 

People have his picture in their head and unfortunately it isnt reality. What people see now is the 'best' case scenario, at least in terms of player numbers all being in there simultaneously. Because its a closed test and everyone is clamoring to get in there, and everyone is online at the same time more or less, and its a WEEKEND test. When the game goes live those weekdays (after people go back to work after taking their vacations just to play the game at release) will become less and less populated, and as one or two sides become dominant, that third side will feel less and less inclined to go in at all.

 

Thats how these things degenerate, and rather quickly usually. When PvP is the main focus of the game it surely needs a better hook than "its RvRvR". It needs balance, which is yet to be seen even with only 4 mirror classes per realm. It needs to make sure there isnt rampant 'ninja' taking of major objectives including scrolls. But it also needs to maintain a semblance of 'fair' play for people who play at weird hours of the day. And there is more but those are the biggies and what are going to be hard to fulfill.

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1385

1/14/14 8:14:12 AM#29

The best thing to reduce zerging is friendly fire.  I would be shocked if they have friendly fire in this game though.

 

I'm also hoping that Cyro is quite large.  Much larger than GW2 WvW.  That would help in the game not feeling like an instanced arena.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3752

1/14/14 8:23:55 AM#30
Originally posted by djazzy
large scale pvp is always a zerg, in every single game. This won't be any different

I have to agree with this.

I'm tired of people defining zerg as just killing! In any situation, real life or gaming, when you get a bunch of individuals together to kill each other that is what they do. The term should be stricken from the gaming terms list! Perfect example is GW2 where haters didn't like the game so they stacked the term onto how bad the "zerg" is. Every game I have played this is the norm. 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  User Deleted
1/14/14 8:27:36 AM#31
Originally posted by rodarin

People can say what they want but by design the game will be zerg when it comes to taking major objectives. Sure small groups can take small objectives but if they allow 10 people to take a keep or a gate or anything over a resource sized sight how will people react? Obviously in the middle of the night with the right siege it might be possible wih zero human defense, but even then they have talked about 'down time' capping.

 People will react however they react.  Yes it will take more than four people to take a keep, but that's how it should be.  If they take it overnight, who cares?  Go take it back.

Anyone that wants to see how this will work really doesnt have to look further than GW2, 

 There are huge differences between GW2 and ESO for 3 faction PVP.  I'll just point out two.  One is in ESO the map is all one connected thing.  In GW2 there are 4 regions that are considered separate from each other in terms of objectives.  This separates the playerbase and encourages factions to only go to which one is the 'winning' side.  Second point in ESO it's a megaserver where GW2 does server vs. server battle.  This affords a great deal more flexibility with ESO than GW2.  Although, I don't think the system will be perfect - it will undoubtedly be better than the GW2 setup.

Everyone always looks at these things under the perfection microscope. Where there are the exact same amount of people in the map all day everyday. That isnt realistic, and has shown to be unrealistic forever.

 Again Megaserver.

There will be a main zerg when there are a lot of people on, 

 There will probably be a few.

People have his picture in their head and unfortunately it isnt reality. What people see now is the 'best' case scenario, at least in terms of player numbers all being in there simultaneously. Because its a closed test and everyone is clamoring to get in there, and everyone is online at the same time more or less, and its a WEEKEND test. When the game goes live those weekdays (after people go back to work after taking their vacations just to play the game at release) will become less and less populated,

Again Megaserver.

which is yet to be seen even with only 4 mirror classes per realm. 

This isn't how the skill system in ESO works.  You're not locked into four mirrored classes like Warhammer Online.  Not even close.

 

  User Deleted
1/14/14 8:29:49 AM#32
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by djazzy
large scale pvp is always a zerg, in every single game. This won't be any different

I have to agree with this.

I'm tired of people defining zerg as just killing! In any situation, real life or gaming, when you get a bunch of individuals together to kill each other that is what they do. The term should be stricken from the gaming terms list! Perfect example is GW2 where haters didn't like the game so they stacked the term onto how bad the "zerg" is. Every game I have played this is the norm. 

I see a difference between the term zerg and mindless zerg.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1292

1/14/14 8:39:54 AM#33
There isn t much I liked about ESO, that said, the biggest reason, DAOC had organized zergs, and GW2 was just a mindless zerg, was class roles and how they played out in RvR. GW2 just simply can t offer that to the extent DAOC did. Who knows whether ESO can.
  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 400

1/14/14 8:46:14 AM#34

The campaign system is hard locked to a set number of players.

This means each campaign will only hold a maximum of say 900 players which means they can balance around 300v300v300.

Is this zergy? Sure, I guess some might see it like that.

 

 

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 425

1/14/14 9:02:11 AM#35

Magaserver isnt the answer to everything. I am also pretty sure there will be NA server, Euro Server and maybe even a third Asian/Oceanic server. I doubt very highly it will be like EVE where there is one world wide server for anyone and everyone who plays the game.

 

But there WILL be different campaigns which for all intents and purposes will in fact be just like GW2. So while everyone who chooses a specific campaign will be on the same portion of the mega server, both PvE AND PvP it still allows certain demographic and geographic 'manipulation' to take place. Because you proactively choose your campaign (server) therefore as people get the 'system' down they will figure out which campaign to join and who to 'recruit' to maximize the issues I talked about.

 

Before people throw the 'megaserver' card around remember it isnt everyone playing on the same server. People will be phased and grouped with people based on a series of things. More than likely the first being the questionnaire on what type of player you are. But once you get to choose a PvP world that all sort of changes, because then youre going to be locked into that campaign (world) for the duration of that fight.

 

What is really going to be interesting seeing if they have to cap certain campaigns due to inability to get them all on the same server.  Or if they just have a campaign list and people join the one they want on a first come first serve basis. Which again will be a logistical nightmare as people reach level cap, start PvPing 'full time' and then when the campaigns reset some guild mates arent online and they get shut out of the campaign their guild is playing on.

 

Every game that tried to do this had issues. You cant localize a worldwide game with players in 24 time zones. "mega server" or no "mega server". Because there is no way no how they will get 500K people into one map of Cryodil. Just how many phases of Cryodil they will have is still a mystery.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3425

1/14/14 9:03:19 AM#36

Greatest PvP too date for me was DAoC and I was there from the start. RvR in DAoC started as a zerg fest but tactics came over time. People getting to know each other.  Guilds forming and finding ways to beat zergs with the tools we were given took time. Even after all that developed, people would still make zerg teams but with 1/3 the numbers we had tactics too take them out if you were with the right group that knew how too work together. 

All games that have PvP in the scale DAoC or ESO does, will have zergs. Its time and the community that makes then invalid. 

  versulas

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 284

1/14/14 9:16:29 AM#37

I hope so... Standing outside a keep defended by an enemy army with a hundred realm mates at my back feels a whole hell of a lot more epic than, "hey let's take this 8-man and cap as many towers behind enemy lines as possible then vanish once there is even a hint of resistance, even though we all know they'll be turned back during the night."

In this case, the experience is far more rewarding than the result. Even if you have small roaming groups, you KNOW that 90% of the time they're going to be ganking solo'ers trying to run towards the action. Oh, yeah... That's much more fulfilling >.>

I hope the community relegates a certain out-of-the-way portion of the map to multi-faction duels like we had in DAoC.

  Ulorik

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 179

1/15/14 7:49:44 AM#38
Originally posted by Mardukk

The best thing to reduce zerging is friendly fire.  I would be shocked if they have friendly fire in this game though.

 

This imho is essential ! (If friendly fire had been in the game WAR-bomber groups wouldn't have been possible)

 

Does anybody know if Friendly Fire in Cyrodil is in??

 

(And ... do we have a Darkness Falls equivalent? An important secondary objective might help to disperse large zergs)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

1/15/14 7:55:49 AM#39
In all games allowing a large amount of players into a PvP area, be it the whole world or a subset of it, there has been zerging, and the same will happen with this game. It's inevitable. That doesn't mean it'll be the only way to play the game, just like those other games.

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  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 582

1/15/14 8:21:07 AM#40
Originally posted by Ulorik
Originally posted by Mardukk

The best thing to reduce zerging is friendly fire.  I would be shocked if they have friendly fire in this game though.

 

This imho is essential ! (If friendly fire had been in the game WAR-bomber groups wouldn't have been possible)

 

Does anybody know if Friendly Fire in Cyrodil is in??

 

(And ... do we have a Darkness Falls equivalent? An important secondary objective might help to disperse large zergs)

From what I read, IIRC, yeah there is friendly fire

 

PS I didn't play PVP during the stress test so this isn't from personal experience

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