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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Overestimate IP?

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61 posts found
  DAS1337

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2383

1/12/14 1:17:42 PM#41
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?

It's a business.  Which means they will try to find new ways to get your money.

 

I completely disagree with you here.  It won't be the most expensive MMO if you don't want it to be.  You pay a sub, that's it.  The sub fee is as expensive as just about any other MMO sub fee.  Then you have options for other things if you feel so inclined to participate.  I won't be taking part.  You aren't forced to either.

 

 

  flguy147

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/09
Posts: 380

1/12/14 1:19:24 PM#42
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by ElirionLoth
Originally posted by CatAtomic99
Originally posted by SNAFUdamus
Originally posted by danisheraser

No worries, there a lots of people who will pay for being able to play Elder Scrolls Online. It's just all these cheap asses here, who thinks everything should be free. Pathetic. And this goes with nearly every damn game that comes out.

"I want free, I want free, I want I want I want"

I prefer to pay for a game actually. F2P usually just means garbage. I just have zero interest in playing the game.

 

Yep. F2P games have the worst playerbases. Going free to play demolishes the game's community, flooding it with exactly the people you don't want in your game.

From this site you can see the type of people that are drawn to F2P games.  I stay with sub games and far away from the F2P crap.

I'm curious as to what sub games are still available besides WoW and Eve that are worth the money. I'm not being snarky, just wanted to see what you are playing so I may get a chance to enjoy it also! :)

If devs make a game that people love they will pay a sub, but they also need to keep new content coming out on a regular basis and not just little shiny content but real content.  I will not play free to play MMOs, cant stand the model and i am sure there are people who wont play subscription games because they dont like it either.  But if people are having a blast in a MMO they will pay it because the value of entertainment is there.

  flguy147

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/09
Posts: 380

1/12/14 1:24:25 PM#43
Originally posted by Beastn
I'm playing the beta and I must be missing something....I'm not an elder scrolls fan, and I have no preference when it songs to theme park vs sandbox...but the negativity towards this title confuses me. I'm looking for it....I can't find it...I likeit

Exactly what i have been saying for a long time.  There are way more MMO players than Elder Scrolls fans.  Everybody just thinks on here that it has to be exactly like the Elder Scrolls games.  No it doesnt, it has to be a good MMO first because its in the MMO genre in every single way they designed it pretty much.   Also people will say then why are they using the IP then,  well because they own the IP and its America and they have the right to do what they want to with the IP that they own.  If i own a business i can run it however i want as long as its legal.  And they decided to make a MMO in the Elder Scolls world and not a multiplayer Skyrim game.  People need to accept that.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7685

1/12/14 3:55:52 PM#44
Idk RvR in ESO's world is pretty damn cool.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1487

1/12/14 4:11:39 PM#45
Originally posted by flguy147
Originally posted by Beastn
I'm playing the beta and I must be missing something....I'm not an elder scrolls fan, and I have no preference when it songs to theme park vs sandbox...but the negativity towards this title confuses me. I'm looking for it....I can't find it...I likeit

Exactly what i have been saying for a long time.  There are way more MMO players than Elder Scrolls fans.  Everybody just thinks on here that it has to be exactly like the Elder Scrolls games.  No it doesnt, it has to be a good MMO first because its in the MMO genre in every single way they designed it pretty much.   Also people will say then why are they using the IP then,  well because they own the IP and its America and they have the right to do what they want to with the IP that they own.  If i own a business i can run it however i want as long as its legal.  And they decided to make a MMO in the Elder Scolls world and not a multiplayer Skyrim game.  People need to accept that.

Hmmm.

Absolutely nothing to do with Zenimax owning the ES brand in this context. EA use the FIFA brand and John Madden's name to market their football games - they don't own those IPs. (Nothing to do with it being America either!)

Agree that TESO will have to be a "good" "mmo" game. What constitutes good or an mmo can be debated but not reaching a certain level of quality constitutes a reason to dump the game or not buy it.

If it is "good enough" however why would people leave WoW or BF4 or whatever to play TESO. (TESO being slated to launch on consoles of course.) Zenimax's answer: because it is Elder Scrolls. Other messages for sure but ES is the number one answer pre-launch. 

Does it need to be "exactly" like ES - I know what you mean but brands can be ephemeral, hard to define; very touchy feely. When things become defined is when third parties move in, price becomes the key selling point and brands lose their appeal.

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1698

1/12/14 6:23:14 PM#46
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 


Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by -aLpHa-  

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.
I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.   Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?  
So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations?      I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that.  GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim.    Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall.    It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying.  Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name.    Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO.  The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.   And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases?  Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR.    I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game.  It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".   
  I wouldn't mind if ESO has the same quality or gameplay like WoW... Then at least i would play it but if this is their definition of copying WoW, then they are trolling or delusional.
You can get that exact same quality of gameplay in WoW, GW2, DAoC, and ToR. 

 

 

There are no quality Elder scrolls like MMO's on the market however.  The closet we have is Mortal Online, and "quality" isn't something that that games brings to mind. 

 

It's more accurate to say that if you want to play an online version of skyrim, play Mortal Online. 

It would be misleading to say that TESO is like playing any past Elder scrolls game online.  To say it's more like playing guild wars 2 would be a heck of a lot more accurate.  GW2 is nothing like any previous Elder scrolls game. 


 

Sorry i wasn't clear, what i meant was that if this is their attempt to copy WoW, then it's a very poor job.

Quote from your original post:

I am referring to this, just because WoW became the measuring stick for every Themepark out there doesn't mean it's easy to copy WoW, just because the Lead Producer said so.

I am still laughing.

Not "copy".  Provide a "familiar" experience; which is exactly what they said when they announced the game. 

 

Their intent was to provide an MMO experience that most people would immediately recognize and be able to understand.  It was there justification for making a game more like your typical themepark MMO and less like the sandbox nature of all previous Elder scrolls titles. 

 

Reread what you quoted me saying. 

 

 

  Jjix

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 143

1/12/14 8:02:15 PM#47
Originally posted by bcbully
Idk RvR in ESO's world is pretty damn cool.

Hmmmmm.

Coming from a fan of Age of Wushu that is saying something. Maybe I will give it another chance . . .

  Thelric

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 26

1/12/14 8:07:47 PM#48
I've read enough about the IP to state it is being underestimated as well. While not a hardcore fan, I'm enough of a fan to state the game has potential and ideas to keep the content coming for a long time. There hass certainly been worst mmo's with more success. This is a nice refreshment from the infestation of the freemium games out there.
  artemisentr4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1442

1/12/14 9:15:58 PM#49
Originally posted by sketocafe
I think they've overestimated it in the sense that they've stretched and mangled it to cram it into a shape that it just doesn't fit. The Elder Scrolls IP is strong enough to sell Elder Scrolls games. This isn't an Elder Scrolls game, this is an MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin. I may get this in the end to play me some ES flavored MMO, but I won't be buying this at launch to play an Elder Scrolls game. 

 That is exactly what players should be thinking. They are going to be playing a MMO based on the ES games. Then they might actually enjoy the game. Anyone thinking this will be a co op ES will be disappointed. Even if it had the best design ever. It will be an MMO with features that go with the genre.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

1/12/14 10:18:31 PM#50
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 


Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.
I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.   Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?  
So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations? 

 

 

I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that.  GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim. 

 

Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall. 

 

It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying.  Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name. 

 

Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO.  The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.

 

And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases? 

Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR. 

 

I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game.  It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".   


 

I wouldn't mind if ESO has the same quality or gameplay like WoW...

Then at least i would play it but if this is their definition of copying WoW, then they are trolling or delusional.

You can get that exact same quality of gameplay in WoW, GW2, DAoC, and ToR. 

 

There are no quality Elder scrolls like MMO's on the market however.  The closet we have is Mortal Online, and "quality" isn't something that that games brings to mind. 

 

It's more accurate to say that if you want to play an online version of skyrim, play Mortal Online. 

It would be misleading to say that TESO is like playing any past Elder scrolls game online.  To say it's more like playing guild wars 2 would be a heck of a lot more accurate.  GW2 is nothing like any previous Elder scrolls game. 

I think you missed the many many posts saying this will not play like an Elder Scrolls game.  The targeting is not FPS, it looks FPS but its a soft lock similar to Neverwinter.  This is not going to be the game you think it is.

 

Is the IP really throwing people off that much about what this game is going to offer?

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

1/12/14 10:19:47 PM#51

In this case the IP created a giant shadow that just about no MMO could live up to. So in this case I think the IP hurt it more than helped.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

1/12/14 10:25:25 PM#52
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by onlinenow25
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

 

Your NOT getting that.

 

This is not Skyrim Multiplayer this is ESO.  It will be nothing like your experience in Skyrim because they can't give you that.  They can't give you and your friend the option to kill any vender or any NPC in the game.  THey can't give you the option to go where you please because its focused on always online, and a 'persistent' world.

 

So don't kid your self.  This is NOT Skyrim Multiplayer, this is ESO.

The videos sure look a lot like multiplayer Skyrim with the added bonus of not being stuck in Skyrim. Sticking pots on shopkeeps' heads isn't a dealbreaker for me. We still get Elder Scrolls combat, exploration and dungeon delving but with friends while keeping a story. I'm not seeing a downside.

Its not Elder Scrolls combat.  It is not FPS based, if you think this, again you will have a bad time.

  rodarin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 466

1/12/14 11:27:05 PM#53
I think its a cash grab for them. Theyre looking to cash in on the IP for all they can. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.
  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1698

1/12/14 11:39:43 PM#54
Originally posted by onlinenow25
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 


Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.
I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.   Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?  
So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations? 

 

 

I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that.  GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim. 

 

Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall. 

 

It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying.  Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name. 

 

Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO.  The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.

 

And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases? 

Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR. 

 

I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game.  It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".   


 

I wouldn't mind if ESO has the same quality or gameplay like WoW...

Then at least i would play it but if this is their definition of copying WoW, then they are trolling or delusional.

You can get that exact same quality of gameplay in WoW, GW2, DAoC, and ToR. 

 

There are no quality Elder scrolls like MMO's on the market however.  The closet we have is Mortal Online, and "quality" isn't something that that games brings to mind. 

 

It's more accurate to say that if you want to play an online version of skyrim, play Mortal Online. 

It would be misleading to say that TESO is like playing any past Elder scrolls game online.  To say it's more like playing guild wars 2 would be a heck of a lot more accurate.  GW2 is nothing like any previous Elder scrolls game. 

I think you missed the many many posts saying this will not play like an Elder Scrolls game.  The targeting is not FPS, it looks FPS but its a soft lock similar to Neverwinter.  This is not going to be the game you think it is.

 

Is the IP really throwing people off that much about what this game is going to offer?

Thank you for helping me to point out that it doesn't play like any previous elder scrolls game, it was kind of the point I was making when I said that it doesn't play like any previous elder scrolls game, and something a lot of people are rather disappointed in. 

 

I'm very well aware of what the game is. 

I'm EXTREMELY confident when I say that a better comparison would be to GW2. 

 

Thank you for reiterating what I already pointed out, that TESO is nothing like playing Skyrim, online. 

 

And like I said, there are no quality Elder scrolls like MMO's on the market, the closest we have is Mortal Online, and that's not a quality game.  If you don't know, MO is a sandbox MMO with no classes, skill based, FPS style MMO; you know, like all the previous elder scrolls game, and nothing like TESO. 

 

 

 

  KirinRahl

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 154

1/13/14 12:12:44 AM#55

They're not overestimating the IP.

 

They just know that selling their first two million copies for a box fee plus a sub is going to make them a shithouse full of money and make up a big hunk of their dev costs.

 

Then, much like a SWTOR, they can go free-to-play later if they find that their playerbase has stagnated and they need new blood.  And they will; the open world RvR really cries out to have new blood flowing through it at all times, especially with how rough it is to run a box+sub MMO in this day and age.

 

So it's really not a gamble or an overestimation, it is a choice made on the developers' part that will maximize the amount of explaining they have to do to their investors; it does not close the door on F2P later, but you'll have to wait if that's what you want.

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1644

1/13/14 12:17:54 AM#56
Originally posted by KirinRahl

They're not overestimating the IP.

 

They just know that selling their first two million copies for a box fee plus a sub is going to make them a shithouse full of money and make up a big hunk of their dev costs.

 

Then, much like a SWTOR, they can go free-to-play later if they find that their playerbase has stagnated and they need new blood.  And they will; the open world RvR really cries out to have new blood flowing through it at all times, especially with how rough it is to run a box+sub MMO in this day and age.

 

So it's really not a gamble or an overestimation, it is a choice made on the developers' part that will maximize the amount of explaining they have to do to their investors; it does not close the door on F2P later, but you'll have to wait if that's what you want.

I know it's a common belief on this site that companies launch sub games with plans for F2P already in the wings but I'm not sure I buy it at all.  Zenimax isn't planning on ESO to underperform they are planning on it to excel expectations.  If it doesn't than they might be forced to go F2P but I don't think they have already drawn up plans to accommodate it.  RvR could very well ensure fresh blood as you put it flowing though the game especially if it gets continual good word of mouth.  I don't expect it to be get positive hype regardless on a site like MMORPG but than again nothing really does except pre NGE Star Wars and any MMO made 10 years a go or more in it's launch state before the developers "ruined" it out of spite.

  saker

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 928

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

1/13/14 12:43:45 AM#57

I have no stomach for hype, have seen too much of it in the MMO's over the years. Never "trust" any of it, not for a second, never "trust" any of the "devs". I've got zero tolerance for what I've always called "the cult of the devs" that people just put them (and/or particular companies) up on pedestals and think them some kind of blessed-unfailable-saints. I have zero interest in the current fad in MMO's of "action combat". I definitely am not at all impressed with the "console centric" design they seem to have been so big on. People who play PC games pretty much -want- to play a PC game and not a console game. The art style, graphics all look very respectable on good for them that they didn't do a "cartoony" style! But anyway, the days of buying a box and paying a monthly are pretty much dead and gone. Trying to use the same pricing and model that worked in say 2000, nah not gunna cut it in (the dog years of the PC world makes it longer) of 2014/15. As others have said it didn't work for LOTR, what makes anyone think it will for this?

  Shoko_Lied

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/07
Posts: 2113

SWG Publish 4 Jedi:Flurry: TKM unlock

 
OP  1/13/14 12:44:02 AM#58
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?

It's a business.  Which means they will try to find new ways to get your money.

 

I completely disagree with you here.  It won't be the most expensive MMO if you don't want it to be.  You pay a sub, that's it.  The sub fee is as expensive as just about any other MMO sub fee.  Then you have options for other things if you feel so inclined to participate.  I won't be taking part.  You aren't forced to either.

 

 

I'm not against a company wanting to make money. What I'm definitely against is the diminishing passion for making great games that gamers will enjoy. The MMORPG industry had so much more love from communities back when companies were made by gamers turned developers who were passionate about providing a good experience and being able to make a career from it. It's changing from that to a penny pinching investor appeasement game, where they will cut corners if they feel that they can get away with it. It's our right as consumers to either accept whatever they throw together, or let them fall flat on their face. Over the last decade we've quickly become less and less of a community with a voice who will support good ideas, and instead a mere statistic on the flowchart at a business meeting.

We let them begin to take advantage of us, and they're milking that for all it's worth. This can be seen in some titles that have been released over the years that failed to deliver on promises, and even hiding the fact with supposed beta restrictions, and in some cases, blatantly lying to the consumer on the box, in a quick attempt to spur cash flow. AAA? Yeah, right.

I want to get my money's worth. I don't want to pay premium cash towards a game that in most areas feels sub-par in comparison to a less expensive game that was created years ago. How about instead of constantly catering to new audiences who won't know better, they actually take on the challenge of improving and innovation to make something that's fresh and exciting in something other than the name.

  GoldenArrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1142

1/13/14 2:41:21 AM#59

Skyrim sold over 20 million copies.

Overestimate, nah?

  -aLpHa-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 864

1/13/14 7:50:15 AM#60


Originally posted by Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Shoko_Lied Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?
It's a business.  Which means they will try to find new ways to get your money.   I completely disagree with you here.  It won't be the most expensive MMO if you don't want it to be.  You pay a sub, that's it.  The sub fee is as expensive as just about any other MMO sub fee.  Then you have options for other things if you feel so inclined to participate.  I won't be taking part.  You aren't forced to either.    
I'm not against a company wanting to make money. What I'm definitely against is the diminishing passion for making great games that gamers will enjoy. The MMORPG industry had so much more love from communities back when companies were made by gamers turned developers who were passionate about providing a good experience and being able to make a career from it. It's changing from that to a penny pinching investor appeasement game, where they will cut corners if they feel that they can get away with it. It's our right as consumers to either accept whatever they throw together, or let them fall flat on their face. Over the last decade we've quickly become less and less of a community with a voice who will support good ideas, and instead a mere statistic on the flowchart at a business meeting.

We let them begin to take advantage of us, and they're milking that for all it's worth. This can be seen in some titles that have been released over the years that failed to deliver on promises, and even hiding the fact with supposed beta restrictions, and in some cases, blatantly lying to the consumer on the box, in a quick attempt to spur cash flow. AAA? Yeah, right.

I want to get my money's worth. I don't want to pay premium cash towards a game that in most areas feels sub-par in comparison to a less expensive game that was created years ago. How about instead of constantly catering to new audiences who won't know better, they actually take on the challenge of improving and innovation to make something that's fresh and exciting in something other than the name.


You mean like Tigole and Furor? They used to play EQ and where always raging (especially tigole) how buggy the encounters where, so they simply made their own game called World of Warcraft.

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