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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Overestimate IP?

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61 posts found
  Shoko_Lied

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/07
Posts: 2110

SWG Publish 4 Jedi:Flurry: TKM unlock

 
OP  1/12/14 5:04:27 AM#1
Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?
  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

1/12/14 5:13:45 AM#2
It's pretty normal that you have to buy the game. Digital or box, whatever. Subs are also pretty normal. That's what most MMOs have gone with. Box+sub. Same as ESO. ESO is also going to have a shop for services. Namechange, account, etc, and fluff. Basically the same as WoW, for instance.
  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2002

Posts deleted: 12589457

1/12/14 6:01:41 AM#3

My bet is that they will soon see that they indeed overstimate their IP and that in 2014, a title doesnt get carried by the history of its setting anymore. I do agree to an extend when people say gameplay>graphics, but IP>gameplay does never apply.

They could have learned that from Lotro, which comes with background and setting more rich and superior than anything, but as well as ESO it failed in execution as a game and therefore went down the drain. Fans of the IP wanted "middle earth online" and got a themepark.

What Bethesda/Zenimax delivers is another generic post-WoW era clone with 2005 standards and flaws that should have left the quality assurance screaming... and no IP is going to help that game. Fans of the IP wanted "Tamriel online" and will get a themepark -again.

Too bad, as i LOVE Oblivion and Skyrim.

  PsychoPigeon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 587

1/12/14 6:13:52 AM#4
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1368

1/12/14 8:39:23 AM#5
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

First: no reason it should be f2p. In fact I suspect it won't be. Zenimax will have target sales and sub numbers and if they don't hit them they will probably just reduce the headcount - so less new content. (Don't get me wrong I believe that a sub is a bad decision.) 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3937

1/12/14 8:42:01 AM#6
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Zefire

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 700

1/12/14 8:43:10 AM#7
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

this

  strangepowers

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 605

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

1/12/14 8:45:49 AM#8


Originally posted by SNAFUdamus

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.
 

You are right. Frankly it is sooo boring I can't stand to play it.  I think I got to level 5 and was like, wtf am I even doing this piece of garbage.  I wouldn't pay 5 sea shells for this game let alone pay to play it.


QFT!

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  danisheraser

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/13
Posts: 15

1/12/14 8:48:39 AM#9

No worries, there a lots of people who will pay for being able to play Elder Scrolls Online. It's just all these cheap asses here, who thinks everything should be free. Pathetic. And this goes with nearly every damn game that comes out.

"I want free, I want free, I want I want I want"

  -aLpHa-

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 864

1/12/14 8:57:05 AM#10

If the product is worth it's money i don't mind if they use all of the payment models the MMORPG uses right now, if it's a turd i won't even pay it a glance or thought.

It's pretty simple for me.

By that i don't mean just ESO mind you, i was speaking in general terms. I have some very strong feeling about the title that i won't disclose right now.

  SNAFUdamus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 60

1/12/14 8:58:35 AM#11
Originally posted by danisheraser

No worries, there a lots of people who will pay for being able to play Elder Scrolls Online. It's just all these cheap asses here, who thinks everything should be free. Pathetic. And this goes with nearly every damn game that comes out.

"I want free, I want free, I want I want I want"

I prefer to pay for a game actually. F2P usually just means garbage. I just have zero interest in playing the game.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1368

1/12/14 9:02:17 AM#12

The power of the IP may be being over-estimated. Both the power of the IP to get people to buy the game initially and then the power of the IP to get them to pay a subscription.

Someone in Zenimax will, I am sure, have done some sums. They will have targets and - hopefully - worst case numbers as well.

Lots of history says that sub based games sell less well at launch. Maybe they are estimating 2-3M rather than 5-10M if they launched without a sub. Lower sales is something they should expect because they have announced a sub.

And then sub retention: well I hope they are looking at 500k on day 1 and 250k at the 6 month mark. Easy to change gear if they find they have 1M and 500k at the 6 month mark, much harder to scale things back.

 

Doesn't seem much hope of them abandoning their sub approach in favour of paid for DLC. No sub would transale into higher sales and with the option of a "premium membership package" that would give members regular DLC - and maybe even a few perks! - they would capture the games long term subscribers as well.

Zenimax are talking about content every 4-6 weeks so why not have a 6 month package for - lets say $75 (subscribers usually get a discount for multi-month) for which you get 5 lots of DLC that will usually retail at between $15 and $25 each - plus access to 2 special GM events say. They can play tunes but it should be easy to offer a deal. This works if Zenimax intend to release new content.

And if they don't plan on following through on providing lots of new content that begs the question "what is the sub going to be for?". Don't tell me: /sarcasm on Romans in Space! /sarcasm off. (Sorry old DAoC joke) 

  Vee4240

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 36

1/12/14 9:02:44 AM#13
I dont think it should be free. I def wont sub if it's not worth the $$ though. And I do believe that the game will go F2P if it doesnt meet everyone's skyrim online standards. It's not our fault that they would've blown it! Im rooting for this IP so hard it hurts - for wanting to play with my friends to wanting to experience all of Tamriel, but if I dont like my experience, my first month will be a dud for sure and Ill wait for the F2P drop. 
  Lyrian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/07
Posts: 252

1/12/14 9:10:12 AM#14

I wish I knew what their train of thought was for a target demographic, or how valid the numbers that I saw thrown around that they had budgeted 200 million for this game because I certainly can't see how they spent it.

In my addled, sleep deprived shift worker state I marathoned pretty much every single ESO and Wildstar video I could find in the last 12 hours to compare the features and feel between the two and I have no idea how ESO is going to even survive their target release date. The quality of gameplay seems poor and uninspiring, anything said about crafting seems like a let down. There's too much focus on a single 'gimmicky' pvp feature that seems to be the entire end game.

I don't think they just overestimated their IP. I think they will be responsible for damaging it to the point any further Elder Scrolls game is going to have to go out of it's way to say it's not ESO.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 281

1/12/14 9:10:27 AM#15
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

 

Your NOT getting that.

 

This is not Skyrim Multiplayer this is ESO.  It will be nothing like your experience in Skyrim because they can't give you that.  They can't give you and your friend the option to kill any vender or any NPC in the game.  THey can't give you the option to go where you please because its focused on always online, and a 'persistent' world.

 

So don't kid your self.  This is NOT Skyrim Multiplayer, this is ESO.

  vanderghast

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 217

1/12/14 9:14:02 AM#16
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

 

 

The problem is that other than in title, this is not an elder scrolls game.

  Incomparable

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 785

1/12/14 9:24:22 AM#17

I think they are evaluating their game well.

-Races are better than other MMOs and also the style of the graphics make it the most current MMO with orcs... for me that has become a thing recently. I just feel like playing a game that has orcs.

-character creation is robust

-pvp has open world - large scale pvp meaning they have a great mmo engine to build on

- raids sound good, which is more important to raiders but also to anyone picking up the game that this game is tripple A title.

- combat is different than other mmos

- choice -there are interesting choices with multi classing within the 4 choices, but not sure how restrictive that is... but also choice extends with vampires and were wolves

- the emperor idea sounds interesting and different. I'm not sure how localized that will be and how it will affect the the overall pvp scenario if there are a lot of emperors. However, the fact that this is included shows that they are doing something that adds meaning to thier end game it becomes well thought out... and hopefully it works out well to be fun.

- crafting sounds interesting as well, and resource gathering sounds interesting

I remember a Q&A mentioned something about caravans in the open world for pvp... and I hope they really went the full 9 yards with simiulating an in depth open world economy that ties in combat as well.

Also its p2p with a vanity shop. Nothing big... i think the OP is reaching... once you have a p2p, there is no need to mention b2p anyways.

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  User Deleted
1/12/14 9:28:56 AM#18
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?

Well, from my perspective your argument is far more valid for the console version due to all the potential extra fees like LIVE and forcing a subscription into a market where buy to play is the norm. However, the business model is fairly typical of PC games. Any more most MMORPG titles from large companies require a purchase fee, a subscription, and have a cash shop at launch in order to make as much money as they can while interest in the game is high and before most players wear out the content and move on to the next big thing in three months. Inevitably the game will embrace free to play when the sales drop. It has become the normal business cycle. The costs of early adoption is high and you are paying a fast food premium. 

 

Thanks to the success of Skyrim and earlier Elder Scrolls titles the IP is popular enough to draw some interests from casual gamers but to be honest this isn't Star Wars we are writing about. I think everyone expects it will draw a crowd but from my perspective that is going to create a problem to the game. Regardless of how they describe the game those casual players will arrive expecting an elder scrolls experience based on the name and all earlier presentations of the game IP and are going to find a PVP focused game based on re-skinning an older market failure instead. The outrage will be palatable.

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1664

1/12/14 9:29:10 AM#19
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

 

So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations? 

 

I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that.  GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim. 

 

Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall. 

 

It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying.  Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name. 

 

Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO.  The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.

 

And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases? 

Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR. 

 

I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game.  It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".   

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/12/14 9:37:10 AM#20
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
It'll be free to play within the year. You cannot make a generic MMO and expect people to continue to pay monthly, you have to give them a reason to do so and for a themepark game, that's very challenging. What a waste of an Elder Scrolls title.

I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.  

Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?

What makes you think playing ESO would be anything like playing a TES game with friends?  As many people stated before, this isn't the single player games nor is it Skyrim Online - this is a MMO - Zenimax choose to make the game like a MMO and not like a single player game.  Playing this game with friends would be like playing any other MMO with friends.

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